AHT is useless

[IIO]

so i have another hardware issue where my quicksilver workstation won´t boot.

the boot process stops at the happy mac and then stalls.

in OSX, it stalls and then after 3 minutes the machine turns off.

i first thought it must be either the disks or the PRAM, because it all started with a hard crash when i was opening 2 apps at the same time.

but after i could exclude the SSDs at the IDE bus (removed them, booted from CD which also hangs) it now smells more like it should be faulty RAM.

the AHT disk (the version which came with that exact model of computer) spent an amazing 13 minutes to perform the verbose test - and found nothing.

well, except one weird thing. in its startscreen it found a total of 1500 RAM, but then only showed slots J21 and J22 as present, slot #3 was missing. however, the RAM test resulted in no error.

.

something similar happend to me in 1997 with an old word mac already. AHT seems pretty useless if you ask me.

[FBz]

Was your QS warmed up to operating temp? Or cold?

Startup Memory Tests = OFF?

Surprised that you got through entire AHT without a hang
… especially if you have RAM present but “not reporting”.
MDD tests here today would hang AHT @ mass storage.
Startup Memory Tests told me bad RAM before AHT.

Sounds like “musical RAM test” time… with one stick of RAM
tested in each slot until you find questionable slot(s) or RAM?
I’d start testing with each one in J23.

MDD tests today drove me crazy(er) as the machine warmed.

[CMD+Opt and then open Memory Control Panel.]
But you already know all of this.

[IIO]

warm or cold? i had a hard crash in 9 and the other day it refused to boot. thought it is the IDE controller or boot drive or something (which if it happens twice per year and is usually fixed by booting into OSX once, booting from firewire once, or resetting the PRAM.)

the usual procedure (musical RAM, CUDApoly, and goodbye to all PCI cards and the factory GPU as well as all internal drive connections) has been performed and led to nothing.

the machine also has a brand new (i.e. very good condition replacement-) PSU.

i just ordered a replacement machine - i wanted to have one anyway - damn 933 are hard to find.

no idea what it could be. it always hangs in the moment where the OS starts booting, but it simply cant be a hardware or hardware driver when there is nothing connected at all. plus it happens in both OS.

why the ATH can start and run? no idea.
 

[IIO]

yes startup memory test is turned off. which is why i thought of the AHT at the very beginning.

buuut, it would have been on in my OSX. so i kinda tested both situations.

[IIO]

on the OS9 on the SSD i am using this third party extension which shows you the icons of all INIT as they load.

that´s why i can tell that this is the moment it hangs. first happy mac, then the startup screen, but then nothing loads.

.

this lame AHT loser even claims that the mass storage test has passed when no disks are connected. and it takes 3 minutes.

[FBz]

Chasing my own tail here for the last 2-3 days with that 1.42 GHz CPU swap. One RAM slot not displaying or usually causing a hang at boot (or soon thereafter). And yes, tried 12 different RAM sticks in that J20 slot which had all booted when in another slot - with zero problems.

IT HAD TO BE THE SLOT or the changes I’d made.
Well, maybe partially.

With any stick in the J20 slot, seemed to be a bit more side-to-side play with the stick in that slot, compared with the other slots. And I had tried so many different sticks there with no change.

After removing the motherboard today and really cleaning that slot, it booted a couple of times with no problem at first. Then on the third boot (after warming up a bit) no J20 RAM reported and the hangs began all over again.

Pulled some newer RAM from another MDD and put one in the J20 slot and it has booted without fail since then. I didn’t really have a bad stick of RAM… I did have a worn slot whose contacts (when warmed up) lost contact. And you can see in the pics below, where each stick of RAM has a very slight wear pattern / or very small indentation. Numbers 1 and 2 are older (been-around-awhile RAM) whereas # 3 is newer and has not been swapped around, in and out of different machines. (Very slight, hint of visible wear.)

This might not be your problem… but it might be.

As your machine heated up the other day / with the hard crash… even a tiny variation might expand over time. Check your RAM, up close. Clean contact points with a cotton swab and alcohol and try to find the least worn RAM stick to use in that J23 slot. And maybe… you won’t need to jerk every card or peripheral out, or away.

Yeah, I didn’t believe it either. All my RAM tested good in other slots and machines. One (or even three) new sticks of RAM is still cheaper than a new / used CPU. (OR NEW machine.)

Worth a try?

[Click on images for larger views.]

 

[Bolkonskij]

Interestingly, I ran into the same issue on my MDD (random freezing in OS9 / kernels in OSX). Went along the same route (useless AHT telling me all is fine), booting from OS CD etc.

After trying (and buying) numerous RAM modules it turned out one of my slots was bad. Problems stopped immediately when I didn't populate it anymore. Now operating with 3 slots and it's running stable again. I know @Knezzen had run into the same issue on his MDD at one point. The RAM slots seem to be sort of a weak point on MDDs ... and maybe on QSes too?

[IIO]

okay, my machine just booted into my regular OS9 folder from the SSD.

believe it or not, it took more than 25 minutes(!) before the startup screen appeared.

[IIO]

checking IDE cable. mine is NOT bent from the case´s hinge like in so many people´s G4s.

-----------------------------

rebooting into the same system.

works flawless.

-----------------------------

rebooting into the boot manager.

really strange: now my full resolution is back - but i haven´t set it back yet (after the PRAM resets from yesterday it should normally be 640).


-----------------------------

starting OSX from the boot manager.

the progress wheel takes a while
(but not untypical longer than after other crashes (network initialisation? rebuilding driver kernels))

then blue screen - but much longer than normal. lotsa HD activity during this.
(i´ve used an internal HD for OSX test so that i can hear it. my system on my SSDs are an exact backup of these HDs (IIO HD kept. he very clever is))

now black.

then blue again.

after about 5 minutes my desktop appears.

loading the desktop is also very slow, but finally all went well.


-----------------------------

rebooting OSX.

works, but is still very slow.

shows a long black screen before the bluescreen appears.

like last time it works, but was extremely slow.

-----------------------------

going back from old HDs to current SSDs, rebooting OSX from there.

still very slow.

now i take the chance and look at the disks and volumes from disc utility. all present, all automounted.

OS9 however, now boots and operates normal.

-----------------------------

the whole thing fells a bit like a HD had a problem with reading a broken sector. but it is an SSD - and it happens with different media and different OS (including CDs). mac magic at its best.

[FBz]

25 minutes to boot?
You might need a special kind of Tech?



https://www.cyberexorcism.com/your-computer-may-be-possessed-by-a-demon/

Or Gurgle: ”The Devil in the Machine: Is your computer possessed by a demon?"

Possibly suffered an intermittent, but low voltage spike / surge?
PSU = absolutely 100%?
CPU damaged or failing?
Last time re-pasted?

“Damn you Apple, my 20 year-old machine is failing!
…But not because of me, in any possible way.”

How many hours would you estimate that machine’s been ON?
If your RAM & slots are beyond question,
pull that heatsink and check that CPU.
Top AND bottom.
AND multimeter test all the PSU voltage ouput.
And of course… fresh battery.

(Now tell us that you also have an Apple ADC monitor connected.)

Almost time for DieHard to weigh-in here.

[IIO]

all ran fine the whole day including 3 reboots and i hope it doesnt repeat.

however the OSX boot process remains influenced by black magic. it takes about 4 minutes where 20 secodns would be normal.