Drive Setup 1.9.2 / 2.1 and Tiger

[FBz]

May be sheer superstitious ju-ju on my part - but as I ran into this scenario again yesterday, I’m wondering if there might be something to it after all?

Attempted to option-boot Tiger on a Mac Mini with both 9.2.2 and Tiger 10.4.6 installed on two separate partitions. Regardless of choosing the Tiger partition, the Mini would then boot into OS 9.2.2 without fail, as if Tiger “was not there”.

Now I’ve come to adopt the following as a habit when setting up dual-boot G4s - to use Drive Setup 2.1 to initialize and partition HDs and SSDs first. Because using Drive Setup 2.1 allows formatting beyond any 128 GB drive size limitations for drives larger than 128 GB, whereas Drive Setup 1.9.2 does not.

And also why I prefer the MacTron Bootable Rescue CD & Disk Repair (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1657.0.html) over the Mac OS 9.2.2 Universal Install (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2109.0.html) … as Drive Setup 2.1 is on MacTron’s and Drive Setup 1.9.2 is on the Universal.) There may however be a new viable alternative to both, here in the not so distant future.

And I believe that DS 2.1 is now available on the Mac Mini V.9 installer as an option, whereas earlier versions of the Mac Mini 9.2.2 installer only had Drive Setup 1.9.2.

Now back on track… normally after dual partitioning the HD/SSD and installing OS 9.2.2 on the first partition (whether on a G4 Mac Mini or other G4 / OR even a G3 Blue and White) I usually installed Tiger from an Apple retail installation disc. Therein perhaps lies the rub.

For years I attempted to install Tiger on a G3 Blue & White… AND after those many attempted installs, the B&W would not boot from the new Tiger installation / partition.

Then finally, I tried the Tiger installation by FIRST opening Tiger’s Disk Utility, from the booted Tiger install disc BEFORE the actual Tiger install. AND then erasing the Tiger-targeted partition as “Mac OS Extended (Journaled)” before then returning to the actual Tiger installation. After so many previously failed attempts - THIS pre-step method actually allowed the B&W to boot from the new Tiger-installed partition.

You’ll find Tiger’s Disk Utility under “Utilities” in top menu bar after selecting “Use English (etc.) As The Main Language” after booting from the Tiger install disc.



So yesterday I reinstalled Tiger on that Mini using this same above procedure and it worked. Easily booting back and forth between OS 9.2.2 and Tiger afterwards.

Now, had I originally used Drive Setup 1.9.2 on the Mini in question? I don’t remember.
And is there something about the Tiger installer that it expects to be installed on a non-partitioned HD alongside a previously existing OS 9? Again, I don’t know. Could you simply “Enable Journaling” on a Tiger installed partition from a booted Tiger Install disc, AFTER the first installation without the pre-step? Again, I don’t know.

AND “Enable Journaling” on a single partitioned HD/SSD with OS 9.2.2 & Tiger in the above manner - might have negative consequences? No, I’m not going to test that.

*IIRC mopar300m just followed the Erase & Format “Mac OS Extended (Journaled)” Tiger pre-install procedure with his B&W & his DA with no problems (after also deleting the Multiprocessing folder).

I know this all reads like gobbledegook but it’s merely a rough “run-down”. Hopefully others can make sense of it and provide a better step-by-step guide - IF it is valid?

OR dispel the whole affair as mere bunk.

[IIO]

using an OSX DVD to format the minis is my way, too, since i noticed that the 256 mb SSD could not be formatted.

my apologies to MacOS9, but for formatting i somehow trust disk utility more, it is a bit more wysiwyg and for example also shows unmounted partitions and has the "first aid" stuff built in.

regarding journalling, yes, you can turn that on and off at any time. though they say if you dont plan to use it, it could be better not to turn it on from day 1 on. (eventually the "log" it creates can not be deleted manually bc of filerights)

[FBz]

“using an OSX DVD to format the minis is my way, too, since i noticed that the 256 mb SSD could not be formatted.”  -IIO

Did you try Drive Setup 2.1
… or just Drive Setup 1.9.2?

Just to be clear, I format and multi-partition *all drives with Drive Setup 2.1 FIRST - and then install OS 9 on the first partition. (*Except perhaps for external Firewire drives used with OS 9.)

Then, when installing Tiger… I erase those other partition(s) originally formatted by Drive Setup 2.1 that were intended for later Tiger installation - with the OS X DVD Disk Utility. THIS is important especially for drives in machines that do not support or recognize anything above 128 GB. (Like the B&Ws, AGPs, etc.) Otherwise those machines and Tiger ONLY recognize the first 128 GB of larger drives when those drives are entirely formatted with Tiger alone. Drive Setup 2.1 is the workaround.

Of course this does not specifically apply to Quicksilvers or MDDs etc.

IF I attempt to use only OS X DVD Disk Utility to entirely format / partition drives in those “limited 128 GB” machines, Tiger will only see the first 128 GB of larger drives, in those machines.

Now, the G4 Minis might be a different matter. I’ve not tried format & dual-partitioning with OS X Disk Utility first and then erasing a partition and installing OS 9 on another partition… (on drives larger than 128  GB). BUT I have done so on drives 128 GB or less (in the Mac Mini) and there was no problem with that. Of course I erased the partition intended for the OS 9 Mac Mini install with Drive Setup 2.1 before installing OS 9.2.2.

So the “former” approach with Drive Setup 2.1 just seems the best “rule of thumb” practice for Priority OS 9 machines. While the latter approach (with OS X’s Disk Utility) may be just fine with later model G4s that support larger drives.

[mopar300m]

This is slightly off topic here FBz, but why do you use 10.4.6 instead of 10.4.11?  Does the newer update nix a feature or break something?

[FBz]

It's the only Apple Retail Tiger installer I have.
Afterwards, I do all the updates to get to 10.4.11.

[IIO]

Did you try Drive Setup 2.1
… or just Drive Setup 1.9.2?

that was the the v7 image.

GB). BUT I have done so on drives 128 GB or less (in the Mac Mini) and there was no problem with that. Of course I erased the partition intended for the OS 9 Mac Mini install with Drive Setup 2.1 before installing OS 9.2.2.

i dont fully get that part (but no need to elaborate on it now) ... the mac minis should have full support for large drives without need for any tricks. (except getting the OS9 install to be recognized as boot folder)

but i must add that i have no idea about your formatting problem in 10.4

finding a "best practice" for a "dual boot" mini is appreciated of course - not everyone wants to use an external drive for that, as recommended by our mini OS gurus.
though i find i somehow more logical to first install OSX and then OS9. so it would be great if it would work under all possible conditions to use OSX to format large drives as well as write OS9 drivers onto a fresh SSD.

[FBz]

There is a need to elaborate on it now - as there are many that never install or use any version of OS X at all… and when (and if) they might choose to do so - well this is fairly important to have this made somewhat clear. AND this is not just about the G4 Mac Mini.

In effect, you’re “cherry picking”. Choosing only one aspect of the entire intended scope of this thread (i.e. the G4 Mac Mini). When the actual intended focus of all this was to provide a broad overview for format & partitioning - with various dual-boot intended machines. Not only the G4 Mac Mini.

Remember the recent DA and B&W tests with larger than 128 GB drives?

Of course your comments and use of OS X’s Disk Utility may very well be pertinent as far as the Mini and other “HDs greater-than-128-GB” capable machines go -  but that might tend to confuse some. Thus, the rule-of-thumb approach with Drive Setup 2.1.

And certainly, I’ve yet to go back and test your implied approach with the Mac Mini and OS X’s Disk Utility to see if there is any real true advantage in performance over using Drive Setup 2.1 / with the previously tested 480 GB and 1TB SSDs. (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5955) But perhaps someday… I will. But you are just as capable (if not more so) of doing that testing yourself. Of course that would require more effort on your part / other than just asking questions.

“what happens if you make only one partition of 1 TB?”  -IIO
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5955.msg44520.html#msg44520

In the meantime, many different machines have been tested here to arrive at a broad-based, tried-and-true approach. But should you care to do the actual comparison approaches with a G4 Mac Mini, using both methods and provide those detailed results for us all… as opposed to you “somehow trusting Disk Utility more” - do please then enlighten us all.

Now there’s an open invitation to actually, really contribute…
and not based solely upon any subjective "somehow trust" personal preference.

So leave YOUR windows closed and go look under YOUR bed. 

[IIO]

tja. as i already said, i am obviously not more capable than you bc it seems that i dont even understand the problem you describe.

if you dont have access to OSX you can use 2.1. if your are going to install both OS anyway, you can choose which one to use. is that correct?

and then i suggested that you can also use an OSX install CD/DVD to format a drive in a mini if it really doesnt work otherwise, just as you described it for your b/w booting issue. a mini normally comes with an OSX install disc, so it is not a completely perverse idea to use this to format the drive. formatting and installing is not something you do once a week after all.

[FBz]

As the title very clearly states:
“Drive Setup 1.9.2 / 2.1 and Tiger”

*Tiger’s Disk Utility does not provide the “Install OS
  9 Driver” option when formatting and partitioning.
  So you’d need to initialize the drive with 1.9.2
  or 2.1 first, to install the V.9 Mac Mini OS.

AND neither does Drive Setup 2.1 nor 1.9.2 allow for
individual initialization of single pre-existing partitions.
(Previously defined by Tiger.)

So you must reformat and partition
the entire HD / SSD anyway.

OS 9 FIRST!

And specific Mac Mini matters have other available threads.

*Caveat: Tiger’s Disk Utility does not provide the
“Install Mac OS 9 Drivers” option on machines NOT ever
intended to run OS 9 (i.e. the G4 Mac Mini, etc.). However
it is an option with Tiger, for all other machines originally
intended to run OS 9.

Screenshot from a 733 MHz Digital Audio.



Now? Back to whether or not it is necessary to perform
the pre-step "Journaled" formatting (prior to actually installing
Tiger) in order to avoid problems (without first doing that pre-
step) and instead, simply allowing the Tiger installer to erase
and install on its' own?

[ssp3]

FBz, have you tried the 2.0.5 or 2.0.7 versions of Drive Setup in your experiments? If so, were they better or worse than 1.9.2 or 2.1 when it comes to transfer speeds?

[teroyk]

How about partitioning from another mac with firewire target disk mode?
Or booting with iPartition boot cd?
Am I right that HFS+ journaled is slower than plain HFS+ in OSX 10.4?

[FBz]

All testing here is currently on hold for springtime home & garden tasks. But I would assume that each subsequent iteration of Drive Setup away from 1.9.2 - could / should, yield some improvement? But no, I haven’t tested the versions mentioned.

As for teroyk’s queries… I tend to focus primarily on optimizing OS 9 performance. Yet, still interesting questions that may be added to the quite long “test list” here as well.

*Note: some interesting info about Coriolis Systems (software and downloads) available here: https://coriolis-systems.com/

[teroyk]

As for teroyk’s queries… I tend to focus primarily on optimizing OS 9 performance. Yet, still interesting questions that may be added to the quite long “test list” here as well.
*Note: some interesting info about Coriolis Systems (software and downloads) available here: https://coriolis-systems.com/

It seems that somebody have checked OS 9 driver install with iPartition already:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/removing-os9-drivers.2177689/?post=27288826#post-27288826

[joevt]

My iPartition.app / HFS+ Wrapper / OS 9 Driver / XPostFacto Helper disk notes: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/question-how-powerful-of-a-graphics-card-will-work-in-a-beige-power-macintosh-g3.2303689/post-31791393

[teroyk]

My iPartition.app / HFS+ Wrapper / OS 9 Driver / XPostFacto Helper disk notes: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/question-how-powerful-of-a-graphics-card-will-work-in-a-beige-power-macintosh-g3.2303689/post-31791393

Valuable info..thanks..now going little off topic..that make me think that it would nice if somebody can make OS9 Wrapper for Powermac G5 1.6Ghz PCI..at least for debug OS9 boot. But discussion should go to that topic: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5531.0.html