9600/350 Powers Up, but doesn't Boot

[efunc]

Did you try to reset the PRam after you got the chime? Usually this helps getting the display back. Also using the CUDA switch like FBz suggested may help. Finally, did you have a look at the electrolytic capacitors at your motherboard? Do they look broken?

Thanks, good call! I just went away and managed to find what I think is the CUDA switch. (very small red button under the processor card). I held it down for 15 seconds with the power disconnected. No dice though. I've also just done a CMD/Option/P/R reboot twice and still nothing. My hunch now is that this is definitely (hopefully!) a battery issue. Even though I swapped it out for a what I think is a new battery, I'm sure I've had that replacement battery in storage for maybe 10 years, so I'm going to order another one, just to be certain it's got a good charge. Will report back. I appreciate the help though.

[efunc]

Well, Hallelujah! It was 100% a battery issue. Unfortunately the one I swapped in previously must have been a dud, hence it threw me off, but I just went and bought a new one this morning, and I've finally got a boot up! I'm sure the slow boot up sequences I've been experiencing over the past few years will have been due to the battery, and it finally gave up completely.

Thanks to everyone that help me think this through systematically, it was invaluable help. In the process I've fully dismantled this machine and changed the PSU too, and now I'll go about reconfiguring it and trying to get some old projects finished.

 

[DieHard]

Well, Hallelujah! It was 100% a battery issue. Unfortunately the one I swapped in previously must have been a dud, hence it threw me off, but I just went and bought a new one this morning, and I've finally got a boot up! I'm sure the slow boot up sequences I've been experiencing over the past few years will have been due to the battery, and it finally gave up completely.

This will surely help others trouble-shooting a 9600.  We can add the 9600 to the list of macs that decide to act like they have a bad logic board when the CMOS battery is dead.  As documented before, a G3 Pismo laptop, will not power up and acts "stone dead" with a bad CMOS battery also.  Glad you got it going.

[Syntho]

I've posted about the battery issue here on the forum before, but it's most likely buried somewhere. Once I encountered that issue I ordered extra batteries for each 9600 I bought and it was pretty much the first thing I'd switch out before testing it extensively. 9600s are rock solid after making sure all the hardware in them is good.

[efunc]

Well it seems my celebrations were premature. So I previously got a successful startup after stripping down and installing a brand new battery. I rebooted several times over the week to confirm it wasn't a fluke, and that went fine too. At that point I decided to return all my Digidesign PCI cards to the slots, as well as my remaining RAM. After doing this the behaviour went back to the previous state and I could not get a start up chime and there with nothing displayed on the monitor. I once again striped the mac bare removing all the RAM and PCI cards. Still no boot up, even though it now has the new battery I installed. Could it be that the battery needs to be replaced again after just a week? It seems I', further back now than when I started troubleshooting originally.

[Syntho]

Well it seems my celebrations were premature. So I previously got a successful startup after stripping down and installing a brand new battery. I rebooted several times over the week to confirm it wasn't a fluke, and that went fine too. At that point I decided to return all my Digidesign PCI cards to the slots, as well as my remaining RAM. After doing this the behaviour went back to the previous state and I could not get a start up chime and there with nothing displayed on the monitor. I once again striped the mac bare removing all the RAM and PCI cards. Still no boot up, even though it now has the new battery I installed. Could it be that the battery needs to be replaced again after just a week? It seems I', further back now than when I started troubleshooting originally.

Strip it bare to where it can still boot (so minimal RAM/cards etc). Reset PRAM/NVRAM and get it booting fine. Then, one by one, add your RAM and cards, and test boot it after each single component is installed in the machine. That way you can narrow down the culprit.

[efunc]

Hi there, thanks for your suggestion. As I mentioned, I once again striped the mac bare removing all the RAM and PCI cards, but still no boot up. I removed the battery too and held down the CUDA button (15 seconds OK?), put battery back etc. No boot up at all. This was the same whether one stick of RAM or no RAM at all, but interestingly I didn't get any bad ram chimes in either case.

Is resetting the PRAM equivalent to removing the battery completely, or pressing the CUDA switch, or should I still do the boot up key combo?

Really the only card I haven't removed is the video card. I'm tempted to try that too. Clutching at straws the only theory I had was that the new battery was drained after putting all the ram and PCI cards back in, so I'm considering ordering another one, but I don't think it really works like that.

[smilesdavis]

we should do a process diagram per issue per model here and how to fix it in which order

[ovalking]

>Really the only card I haven't removed is the video card. I'm tempted to try that too

Get that card out, press the Cuda etc.
Eliminate all possibles when troubleshooting, however unlikely!

[peeperpc]

The troubleshooting section in this service manual may help.
https://tim.id.au/laptops/apple/legacy/pm8600.9600.ws9650.pdf

From what I read, things you have not tried are reseating CPU and resetting logic board.

What you had done before it was revived seemed close to the resetting the logic board procedure in the manual (unplug the Mac, remove the battery, disconnect PSU cable from the logic board, press the power button, wait at least 10 mins, put the battery back). The idea looks like to starve the logic board of juice for at least 10 mins.

[Syntho]

Wait, you haven't moved the video card? That's the problem. 9600s are finicky about which slot takes the video card. Which slot is it currently in?

If I remember correctly, when the machine is upright as normal only the top slot (and possibly the one below) work for video cards. Everything below that won't work. I originally wanted to use the very bottom slot near the ground so that the VGA cable had some support but I soon ran into the same issue you're experiencing.

Pop the video card into that very top slot and I can almost guarantee that it'll work. I learned this when fooling with PT cards since the main card wants a bus master slot. But so does the video card (and only a certain one). And the SCSI HD controller usually wants one too, so compromises have to be made.

[efunc]

Thank you all for your replies and the links. I'll read up the troubleshooting doc for any tips. I'll also have another bash at resetting the logic board. Regarding Video card, I can confirm that it's now and always been located in the 1st slot, next to the CPU card, as it shipped originally. I have reseated it along with the CPU too, but not tried removing it completely and booting without it given that I wouldn't be able to see what was happening. But since I'm still just trying to hear some chimes it's obviously worth doing.

Another thought is that I can't remember if I ever upgraded the video card. If I did I guess it might be worth sourcing another iXMicro TwinTurbo 128M8 just to return it to factory config, just in case. Something mentioned in this unrelated thread: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1324253

[efunc]

Hallelujah part deux!

quick post with update before I go back to troubleshooting. I can report some progress. I removed the video card completely and reset the CPU again, removed battery, reset CUDA, and zapped PRAM with no result. I then did the logic board reset (unplugged the board, removed battery, left for 15mins), and finally I have a start up chime! The chime was followed immediately by the sound of breaking glass. I'm guessing this sound is because of the absence of video card or RAM?

I will now go on to tentatively reinstall RAM and video card. Wish me luck..

[efunc]

From what I read, things you have not tried are reseating CPU and resetting logic board.

This was a brilliant morsel of info which looks like it's done the trick, so thanks a lot! I've now returned the video card and two sticks of RAM to the 9600 and it's booting up absolutely fine.

I'm nervous about putting all my Digidesign cards and RAM back in, but at least now I know that if it goes south I might be able to reset the logic board again to get things back on track. The question is which component (if any) caused the failure, and why. But I'll return items bit by bit to see how it behaves. So far so good and I can at least access some data..

[Syntho]

Just tried booting my 9600 after many months, possibly a year. No chime and a blank screen. Reseated all cards, nothing. Reseated the CPU, cleared the board using that little button, plus reset the pram using the keyboard startup thing. Nothing. Then I checked the battery with a multimeter, and I never thought it would be bad since it's only 4-5 years old, but it was only 115mV.

It was the NuPower brand that Newertech sells. I just ordered some others and will update the thread when I pop it in. Hopefully it fixes it.

While I'm on topic, I think I might try to recap my entire 9600 machine which would include the motherboard, PSU, and any cards that have caps too. Most of this stuff is of the SMD variety so I don't expect them to last much longer. I'll replace them with new aluminum electrolytic ones.

[Syntho]

Went and looked in my box of electronics. Had a new 1/2AA 3.6V battery that I bought for modding a piece of gear in there. Popped it in and it boots fine now. Gonna keep the other batteries I just ordered for my other machines.

[smilesdavis]

The 9600 can work with just a single RAM slot in use.
Just interlevaing is not verry well than

Also I´d say the minimum RAM that is needed depends on the OS. For the 300 and 350MHz versions of the 9600 the minimum OS is 7.6.1 (for slower versions 7.5.5). So it should work well with 16MB installed in one slot. Or 64MB with Mac OS 9.1.

I´d be extremely careful with "contact stuff" better clean with IPA, that is often used at PCBs (I did it myselve several times).

Regarding the video cards, virtually any Mac PCI videocard is working well. I used myselve in my 9600 an ATI Rage 128, TwinTurbo 8MB, ATI 7000, VillageTronic MacPicasso 540, an 3dfx Voodoo 5500, and an ATI 9200.

You got a voodoo 5500 mac?