Author Topic: sonnet 1.33 os9 troubles [no original cpu]  (Read 1927 times)

Offline perestroika

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sonnet 1.33 os9 troubles [no original cpu]
« on: November 17, 2021, 02:09:20 PM »
a decade ago or more i was given a sonnet 1.33ghz upgrade for my quicksilver 733mhz g4 - i did the upgrade via osx, the firmware/drivers setup and all that. i had no idea at the time that for it to work well on os9, i had to do it there instead of osx - so whenever i use os9 it crashes. could be 1min after bootup or perhaps 1hr into it or it wont even boot at all. then i got the mdd tower and i never used the quicksilver again. lol.

my question is, without the original cpu can i install the firmware or drivers and maybe fix this? no longer have the original cpu since it was an exchange. or is my option just to get the original 733mhz cpu from ebay or elsewhere and just reset it all and do it from scratch?

Offline robespierre

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Re: sonnet 1.33 os9 troubles [no original cpu]
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2021, 02:50:49 PM »
Have you tried running the OS9 drivers installer using the Classic environment in 10.4.11?

Offline perestroika

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Re: sonnet 1.33 os9 troubles [no original cpu]
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2021, 03:58:57 PM »
dont think i ever tried that. will have to go get quicksilver and try now, hopefully something happens :D

Offline IIO

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Re: sonnet 1.33 os9 troubles [no original cpu]
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2021, 12:06:04 AM »
i dont think you need to do that with the old processor.
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline FBz

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Re: sonnet 1.33 os9 troubles [no original cpu]
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2021, 11:14:37 AM »
Both Encore/ST G4 and Encore/ST G4 Duet models require
Mac OS 9.2 for software installation and firmware updating.



Offline mrhappy

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Re: sonnet 1.33 os9 troubles [no original cpu]
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2021, 07:33:25 AM »
Ah, they try to sneak it by you with the old 'Double asterisk' trick!! Cleaver!! ;D

Offline perestroika

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Re: sonnet 1.33 os9 troubles [no original cpu]
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2022, 02:57:04 PM »
i disappeared and never came back! fak.

anyway, i managed to get one of the original cpus for the quicksilver [733mhz] and one of the capacitor mamas is bent. sent a message to the seller but i wonder if can i solder this carefully and would it work ok? i am clueless about how these mamas work, since it doesnt have those long legs that go through the pbc board.

Offline FBz

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Re: sonnet 1.33 os9 troubles [no original cpu]
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2022, 03:49:17 PM »
Looks like if you’re really careful and gently push that capacitor back down into position (without breaking the other leg off) there might be just enough of that “loose leg” to apply a very small amount of solder to complete the circuit and also then... keep the capacitor back in its’ original position. Might require a small-pointed soldering iron, something to hold the cap firmly in place… and a magnifier (Opti-Visor, etc.) and steady fairly hands.

AND if it won't fit back down in place flat, you might have to bend what appears to be small metal "keepers" on either side of the leg. (See blue arrow.)



As to whether or not the thing will function afterwards, your guess is as good as mine.

But, best of luck! ;)

Offline perestroika

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Re: sonnet 1.33 os9 troubles [no original cpu]
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2022, 07:43:05 PM »
Looks like if you’re really careful and gently push that capacitor back down into position (without breaking the other leg off) there might be just enough of that “loose leg” to apply a very small amount of solder to complete the circuit and also then... keep the capacitor back in its’ original position. Might require a small-pointed soldering iron, something to hold the cap firmly in place… and a magnifier (Opti-Visor, etc.) and steady fairly hands.

AND if it won't fit back down in place flat, you might have to bend what appears to be small metal "keepers" on either side of the leg. (See blue arrow.)

As to whether or not the thing will function afterwards, your guess is as good as mine.

But, best of luck! ;)

better get a new soldering iron, i have one of those that are thick curvy ones, no thin pointy ends. fak.
but here's a funny thing. as i was putting things back, i remembered i once read about someone updating or hacking the apple cpu extension file or whatever it was. so i looked for it and after 30mins or so i found this thread

https://macintoshgarden.org/forum/request-sonnet-updated-cpu-system-file

2nd last post someone linked to the downloads page of the garden, looked for the mentioned zip and downloaded it - then installed os9 on a spare hdd with my other g4 tower, then copied the cpu file thing replacing the original, put hdd on the quicksilver [with the sonnet upgrade] and os9 went straight in. before it would crash and cry about extension errors, or maybe if i managed to boot into os9, it would hang after 10 or 30mins of use. then when restarting it would again cry about extension errors or just hang on boot up. fak. played simcity 2000 for like 20mins, left it running for an hour and no crashes! :O

will wait until seller responds and then i'll see what happens. if homie has a replacement cpu [i dont think so but you never know] ill exchange it. if not, then i'll have to think about soldering and trying and then maybe sendign back. lol.

anyway, thanks for the advice! and everyone else who replied too. i have no soldering skills but managed to fix a usb port once. :D

Offline robespierre

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Re: sonnet 1.33 os9 troubles [no original cpu]
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2022, 10:14:39 PM »
The SMD electrolytics are a pain to rework because the pins are exposed by such a small stickout. No matter how small and narrow your tip, you will burn the plastic base trying to touch the pin. So you need special techniques like hot air rework with solder preforms. It's a pain to remove them also: very easy to pull the copper pads off the board. It's doable, just a lot harder than it looks.

Offline perestroika

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Re: sonnet 1.33 os9 troubles [no original cpu]
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2022, 12:56:44 PM »
The SMD electrolytics are a pain to rework because the pins are exposed by such a small stickout. No matter how small and narrow your tip, you will burn the plastic base trying to touch the pin. So you need special techniques like hot air rework with solder preforms. It's a pain to remove them also: very easy to pull the copper pads off the board. It's doable, just a lot harder than it looks.

 :'(

Offline FBz

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Re: sonnet 1.33 os9 troubles
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2022, 05:45:03 PM »
“…i have no soldering skills…”

Where DO such skills come from?

And yes... sounds pretty complicated, difficult, scary and oh-so-serious.

If the seller won’t take it back… and or replace it. I’d have no qualms about giving it a go. It’s an outside corner capacitor on a 733 MHz Quicksilver CPU daughtercard. Easy access. AND there’s considerable room to approach it and attempt soldering. IF that blue arrow (pic above) shows a small tab that can be carefully bent back with small hemostats - or even very small needle-nosed pliers… well?

AND even if that tab (“keeper”) were accidentally broken off in the effort, there seems ample space to allow a quick spot of solder there. My biggest concern would be… not breaking off the other leg on the opposite side when applying pressure to hold the cap down and its’ loose connection back in place for soldering.

Mind you, I wouldn’t attempt this with a big-tipped soldering Gun… but have done many similar repairs over the years, just like this… with a Weller soldering iron & tip - just like the one pictured on the right in the image below. [The smaller Hakko (on the left) is better suited for such a task.]



It is close (and would be) delicate work. So best to be fresh and calm before proceeding. AND have a good, hands-free magnifier to view the spot as you work.

Again, it’s a 733 MHz that’s only needed very briefly in order to re-install a Sonnet processor upgrade.
(And there’s still plenty of low-cost 733 CPUs out there anyway.)

I'd say damn the torpedoes and full-speed ahead… for such an overall small concern.
Good practice, even if it doesn’t work.

Maybe seller will first replace / refund anyway. ;)

Offline perestroika

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Re: sonnet 1.33 os9 troubles [no original cpu]
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2022, 04:09:22 PM »
“…i have no soldering skills…”

Where DO such skills come from?

And yes... sounds pretty complicated, difficult, scary and oh-so-serious.

If the seller won’t take it back… and or replace it. I’d have no qualms about giving it a go. It’s an outside corner capacitor on a 733 MHz Quicksilver CPU daughtercard. Easy access. AND there’s considerable room to approach it and attempt soldering. IF that blue arrow (pic above) shows a small tab that can be carefully bent back with small hemostats - or even very small needle-nosed pliers… well?

AND even if that tab (“keeper”) were accidentally broken off in the effort, there seems ample space to allow a quick spot of solder there. My biggest concern would be… not breaking off the other leg on the opposite side when applying pressure to hold the cap down and its’ loose connection back in place for soldering.

Mind you, I wouldn’t attempt this with a big-tipped soldering Gun… but have done many similar repairs over the years, just like this… with a Weller soldering iron & tip - just like the one pictured on the right in the image below. [The smaller Hakko (on the left) is better suited for such a task.]



It is close (and would be) delicate work. So best to be fresh and calm before proceeding. AND have a good, hands-free magnifier to view the spot as you work.

Again, it’s a 733 MHz that’s only needed very briefly in order to re-install a Sonnet processor upgrade.
(And there’s still plenty of low-cost 733 CPUs out there anyway.)

I'd say damn the torpedoes and full-speed ahead… for such an overall small concern.
Good practice, even if it doesn’t work.

Maybe seller will first replace / refund anyway. ;)

got my soldering iron on saturday and since then kept putting it off until today, and after i dont know, 10mins total between soldering, burning myself, and inserting the cpu into the motherboard - i turned on the quicksilver and after a long gray screen, it booted into os9 and it just worked! :O

and then i burned myself again picking up the soldering iron by the tip. lol.

seller never answered but i'll keep it though, you never know when it might come in handy. so far the quicksilver with that apple cpu system file i got from the macintoshgarden works without drama. until it starts being a drama queen then i'll do the whole reset thing. thanks again FBz!

Offline FBz

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Re: CAUTION - HOT!
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2022, 04:51:20 PM »
Sorry, I neglected to mention that the soldering iron
…(and solder) can be quite hot.     CAUTION!

You don’t run with scissors too, do you?

Glad you got it working! ;)

 


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