PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD

[starmax]

Odd, not sure what my issue is then.  When I install OS9 and Panther on a HDD, both work great.  On an SSD, OS9 works great, but OSX hangs on startup.  I will try installing OSX within the first 8GB just to see if that's the issue, but my recollection about this problem was the partition wouldn't even be visible vs hanging, so doubtful that is the issue...  Assuming it's some sort of compatibility with the IDE to SATA adapter and the ATA interface on the logic board.  These early IDE implementations from Apple are really flakey.

[FBz]

Maybe you’re onto something. This is the first and *only G3 that I’ve ever installed an SSD in and I’ve avoided it until now. (Might just be expecting too much from a G3 PowerBook?)

With that said, I may eventually attempt an SSD into a G3 B&W here - but not a front burner project. Never liked OS X on this Lombard and had simply resigned it to being an “OS 9 only” machine. (HDD or no.) But, please do keep us all apprised of your findings or of any progress.

Maybe SCSIJims (above, this thread) has had better success with Panther?

*Not completely true. Did OS 9 SSD in a G3 iMac.

[starmax]

Update:  Installed Panther (from my Mystic) on the first partition within the first 8GB of the SSD, got a no bootable disk icon in the lombard.  Had this happen previously, and found I needed to partition the disk in OS9 (check the install OS9 drivers checkbox in OSX is not enough).  Repartitioned the SSD in OS9, then installed Panther again (from Mystic), installed in Lombard and started in verbose mode.  After a long time it finally booted, but everything is slow.

I had a ton of issues getting an SSD to work in my Rev A iMac.  Tried 2-3 IDE to SATA adapters, but nothing really worked.  Finally ended up buying an IDE to CF adapter and CF card, which worked well.  Not much faster than a 7200rpm HDD, but a lot quieter.  Not sure if I'm willing to do that for this project, CF cards are kind of expensive...

[starmax]

Well, finally gave up on IDE to SATA solutions as none worked well enough in OSX for me and bought a IDE to CF adapter + SanDisk Extreme card.  Results are pretty good:

Test System: PowerBookG3/400-CF
MacBench Version: MacBench® 5.0
Disk Tests:
Disk: 2984 score
Publishing Disk: 1690 score
Sequential Read 512: 1320.76 kilobytes/sec
Sequential Read 1024K: 15333.03 kilobytes/sec
Random Read 512: 894.31 kilobytes/sec
Random Read 1024K: 15497.68 kilobytes/sec
Sequential Write 512: 5722.40 kilobytes/sec
Sequential Write 1024K: 14094.92 kilobytes/sec
Random Write 512: 188.71 kilobytes/sec
Random Write 1024K: 13554.27 kilobytes/sec

HDD Scores:

Disk Tests:
Disk: 1866 score
Publishing Disk: 1331 score
Sequential Read 512: 740.41 kilobytes/sec
Sequential Read 1024K: 12068.98 kilobytes/sec
Random Read 512: 63.54 kilobytes/sec
Random Read 1024K: 12225.16 kilobytes/sec
Sequential Write 512: 5419.10 kilobytes/sec
Sequential Write 1024K: 13806.79 kilobytes/sec
Random Write 512: 185.74 kilobytes/sec
Random Write 1024K: 13225.03 kilobytes/sec

[FBz]

Appreciate your posted results from the CF route and have continued testing with the SSD + adapter here and just about ready to throw in the proverbial towel. Lombard boots and runs OS 9 like a rocket and then - only after the introduction of Panther in the mix... do things start to rapidly go south. Beginning to seriously wonder about SSD + adapters in G3’s.

Again however, OS 9 alone… does very well.

[FBz]

After a mere FIVE DAYS of testing last week with various SSDs and multiple attempted OS installs, finally ordered a 256 mb ram stick for this Lombard (to arrive later today). In the meantime with the help of IIO’s upload of the (now) rare PPC checker app, the following is found to be true.



So if you’ve a Lombard PowerBook and find it difficult to install, or much less…
even run OS X Panther - this may be your problem as described here:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/537644

PowerPC 750L (LoneStar, Rev2.2) Copper G3 PVR = 0x00088202
If you have this CPU, you can only run a maximum of 256MB of RAM in the bottom memory slot.

If you do not have the troublesome CPU, and you are not storing a lot of stuff on your Lombard's HD, you could give either Panther or Tiger a test run with your current hardware.

THIS Lombard currently boots (after about ten minutes) Panther, with only 128 mb of RAM in the bottom slot and I’ll test it again with the new 256 mb stick later today. AND I installed Panther on the same (less than 8 GB) first partition where OS 9 also resides… which left about 112 GB of space remaining on the second partition of the 128 GB SSD.

I’ll update IF this Lombard even comes close to Starmax’s (thread above) benchmark results AFTER the installation of the 256 mb. Otherwise, anyone want a G3 PowerBook Lombard? (Make me an offer.)

OS 9 runs great!

[teroyk]

So if you’ve a Lombard PowerBook and find it difficult to install, or much less…
PowerPC 750L (LoneStar, Rev2.2) Copper G3 PVR = 0x00088202
If you have this CPU, you can only run a maximum of 256MB of RAM in the bottom memory slot.

Or could it be this problem, that it is hard to find the right type SO-DIMMs:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5581.msg41561.html

[FBz]

Very good point concerning possibly “improper” SO-DIMMs.

However, rather than trying the 3 different varieties that I did test in this Lombard (and the time it took to do so)… perhaps testing first  with the PPC Checker app for the PowerPC 750L (LoneStar, Rev2.2) Copper G3 might have saved considerable time, cost and effort.

Results from the single 256 mb test here last night provided better results booting Panther - but not that much better. So this Lombard will go back to an “OS 9 only” machine until such a time that a different CPU can be acquired. AND in the meantime, it’s likely that I’ll remove the SSD & adapter from the Lombard and re-install the original 6 GB HD. AND then, attempt the OS 9 and Panther re-install to check that performance with the new, single 256 mb of RAM.

•AND it might be interesting to have SCSIJims & Starmax (on his now CF card - equipped Lombard) both run PPC Checker to see what their findings might be. AND if Starmax does have the “Copper” then his CF card approach might be a viable stopgap workaround for the Copper CPU?

CORRECTED: new RAM here is 256 mb NOT a single 512 mb as first posted.

[starmax]

PPC Checker for my Lombard 400 says:

PowerPC 750L
(LoneStar, Rev3.1)
Copper G3 with 10x
PVR = 0x00088300


I have been using 2x 256MB sodimms.  My problems definitely seem to be IDE related as native IDE drives and CF (basically IDE) work fine for OS9 and OSX, but OSX does not like IDE to SATA converters.

[starmax]

Side topic... Decided to go ahead and try to overclock my CPU this weekend, nearly ruined my board, but was able to get it working and stable at 433.

Tried:
83 Mhz Bus overclock, 6x multiplier (498Mhz) = no boot
66 Mhz Bus, 7.5x multiplier (500Mhz) = no boot
66 Mhz Bus, 7x multiplier (466Mhz) = about 50% boot success in OS9, 0% success in OSX, but worked great in OS9 when it booted
66 Mhz Bus, 6.5x multiplier (433Mhz) = boots and works great in OS9 and OSX

[FBz]

Well, good show on that overclock. Congrats.
(Wonder about possibly increased internal heat.)
Pics of those multipliers?

And while you do have the “Copper”
it’s a later revision (3.1 vs. 2.2) and…
PVR (0x00088300 vs. 0x00088202.



Are the Rev 2.2’s most questionable?
That could be completely incorrect.
More testing here!

CURRENT INFO from Starmax:
“With CF/IDE adapter, cold Tiger boot time is about 45s
(bong to everything loaded in finder).“

A 45 second Lombard / Tiger boot!
(Is OS 9 also present / installed?)

Perhaps now it becomes a matter of if one wishes to improve
OS 9 (only) performance w/ an SSD and adapter? OR rather,
if one wishes to also run Panther / Tiger too?

At this point the CF route seems best for the latter scenario.
(With the Copper CPU?) A CF/IDE adapter in my future?

Starmax: Which CF/IDE adapter and sources?

So I’ll be re-installing the original HD and testing that again
before possibly testing the CF route here… as Starmax has
strong suggested that the SSD + adapter is the bottleneck.

*SCSIJims states he’ll test & report this weekend.
And teroyk, you running a Lombard too? PPC Checker?

Thanks all!

[starmax]

CURRENT INFO from Starmax:
“With CF/IDE adapter, cold Tiger boot time is about 45s
(bong to everything loaded in finder).“

A 45 second Lombard / Tiger boot!
(Is OS 9 also present / installed?)

Yes, I have 9.2.2 on the first partition, 10.4.11 on the second, and a "shared" third partition.

At this point the CF route seems best for the latter scenario.
(With the Copper CPU?) A CF/IDE adapter in my future?

Starmax: Which CF/IDE adapter and sources?

CF Card:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NUB2Q9E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

IDE to CF Adapter:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036DDXUM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1


I had previously tried 2 IDE to SATA adapters, this one (which works great in my Ti Book, but not well in Lombard):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09D94LXRN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and this one (from a thread here):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/302898697852

This worked great in OS9, but OSX was a mess.  Lots of installs/formatting/re-install..  eventually got OSX to run but it was dog slow.

[SCSIJims]

I am still catching up on this thread although I fear the discussion may be beyond my limited understanding lol.
Will run the check on my Lombard this weekend and I did finally find a pair of 256 simms that worked at long last. If only I could find or hack together a PRAM I'd be 100% in business.

[randomshinichi]

I have a iBook G3 clamshell and G4, Powerbook G4 all running the M.2-IDE adapter from Sintech, Crucial MX500 256GB. It works flawlessly, no little issues. They do all kinds of adapters, and ship from China - I'd consider them 'the source'.

This is a M.2 SATA to IDE adapter, but there is also a mSATA to IDE adapter if you look hard enough.
http://eshop.sintech.cn/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=130_17&products_id=1037

[DieHard]

I have a iBook G3 clamshell and G4, Powerbook G4 all running the M.2-IDE adapter from Sintech, Crucial MX500 256GB. It works flawlessly, no little issues. They do all kinds of adapters, and ship from China - I'd consider them 'the source'.

If you get the time, can you post the results (Speed tests) on these units with the M.2-IDE adapter from Sintech

[FBz]

If you get the time, can you post the results (Speed tests) on these units with the M.2-IDE adapter from Sintech

Yes. And perhaps more specifically in this case... installed IN a Lombard.

[SCSIJims]

Results are in:
PowerPC 750L
(LoneStar, Rev3.1)
Copper G3 with 10x
PVR=0x00088300

[FBz]

PowerPC 750L
(LoneStar, Rev3.1)
Copper G3 with 10x
PVR=0x00088300

Congrats!

Same as starmax's! You both are quite lucky.

Might run benchmark (like starmax) and
compare with his results - just for fun.

That would be a naked SSD + adapter
vs. his CF card approach.

[SCSIJims]

Yeah, but mine is still somewhat unstable—and the worst part is I can’t cold boot without pulling the plug out the back! Holding power does nothing.

It may still be my usb sticks  I tried the oldest one I own and it’s still showing errors no matter how many times I repaired it <\3
Any recommendations for bulletproof usb drives for os9?

[FBz]

Benchmarks from this chip-challenged Lombard / with top RAM removed.



64 GB Compact Flash route = 2X the cost* of Inland SSD + adapter AND 50% less space.

Yet as the SSD + adapter runs OS 9 the best, it chokes badly when trying to run Panther.

*Unless you already have a CF card and needn’t buy one new.

Dual-boot Lombard w/ OS 9 and OS X on separate partitions?
                                   Compact Flash route.

Dedicated OS 9.2.2 machine?
   Naked SSD + adapter.