Author Topic: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD  (Read 2512 times)

Offline SCSIJims

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PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« on: August 30, 2021, 03:00:13 PM »
Hi all. Thanks so much for all the help you all have offered me so far in my OS9 journey.
I tried everything I could think of before asking for help again.
If this is in a sticky and I missed it, please forgive.

SO, I am trying to install an ssd in a PowerBook Lombard. I opted for a known working msata chip: dogfish 128gb from the sticky. I used the following enclosure:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/mSATA-to-2-5-PATA-IDE-SSD-Enclosure-Adapter-Case-9-5mm-Solid-State-Drive-/151519954907?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

Hooked it up and loaded my os9.2 disk into my scsi cd drive, booted from the cd. Drive showed as “expansion bay - not supported.” The next thing I tried was installing os9.2 to the msata using my QS G4. Installed in PowerBook and still no go.

I did reinstall the original drive and confirm the problem is not with me digging around in the innards—it still works.

Can anyone recommend a confirmed working enclosure? Or could there be something else I’m missing?

One other item, since you’re reading—I want to replace the thermal pad and can’t find any info. Any Lombard users out there? Very few resources on the Lombard I’m surprised to find.

Again, thank you all for the support and thanks to anyone who took the time to read this. Happy computing.

Offline SCSIJims

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2021, 06:25:49 PM »
one bump before I give up on this project. I've tried everything I can think of.

Offline FBz

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2021, 08:48:11 PM »
Did you install a jumper on that enclosure to match that of the original drive?
(Master, Slave, etc.?) Or is a jumper even required?



I’ve a Lombard that’s never been opened but now I might, following your lead.
What did you use to format the SSD?
Does it need to be partitioned with the first 4 to 8 gigs dedicated for the OS?

I once wiped mine (6 GB HD) and IIRC…
had to install OS 9 - and then updates, to get it to 9.2.2.

If none of the above helps…
May open mine and attempt to use a SATA2IDE44VAO
adapter from this thread:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5955.msg44447.html#msg44447
(if there is enough room inside the Lombard).
« Last Edit: September 02, 2021, 09:47:40 PM by FBz »

Offline FBz

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2021, 09:53:30 PM »
Answering my own question here:
there are no jumpers on the HD in this Lombard.

Will try the above mentioned adapter AND a *naked
SSD in the next day or so and report results.

*Not enough room for the adapter AND an SSD
in its' normal case... inside the Lombard.

Offline SCSIJims

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2021, 07:11:28 AM »
Hi, there! Thanks for looking into this!
I realized the drive (128gb) was too big, so I partitioned using my macbook air into 100gb and 28gb partitions then formatted each partition on the powerbook lombard. Disk manager still sees these partitions as "not supported." I tried adding the OS to one partition, then the other, then both with no luck. At one point, I actually got multi-boot to see the drive, but booting was unsuccessful.

I have 2x 128gb ssd's, tried the same on both. My enclosure, despite being ordered from the same listing seem to differ slightly--although it may be only cosmetic. I noticed the large capacitor is a different voltage, but that shouldn't matter I don't think. I'm about to return both enclosures and ssd's and try something new as the return windows are closing and a 100-120gb ssd would be more appropriate to see if partitioning is an issue. There are just too many variables!

While you're in there, do you think you might be able to measure the thickness of the thermal pad please? if you have calipers. I foolishly destroyed mine before doing so and was planning to replace with some arctic thermal padding I have left over from a mobo refurb.

Offline FBz

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2021, 09:55:34 AM »
May need to partition / format using your Lombard and an OS 9 (etc.) installer disc in order to install OS 9 drivers? But your QS should also have been capable of that. And it may all have something to do with the possible need for that ≤ 8 GB first partition? Before delving into this Lombard here any more today… have now seen other mentions of that 8 GB / first partition requirement - intended for the OS to reside. You might give that a go.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/lombard-ssd-booting-help.2293984/

Is this the thermal pad (red dot in pic)? Or does the daughter card need be removed? If it’s the white pad, it can’t be more than a sixteenth of an inch in thickness. (I don’t want to peel it off.)



I also need to remove that HD ribbon cable (yellow box) in order to remove the HD caddy to accommodate install of naked SSD and adapter. Method of removal? *Maybe the primary reason I don’t open laptops with my big, monkey-fisted fingers.  :o

Any of you other “Lombard-o-ites” can chime in here anytime. Don’t be shy.

Offline SCSIJims

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2021, 12:20:08 PM »
The first time that ribbon came off for me it was by accident, so it isn’t clipped in in any meaningful way. For me it came of by pulling the cable. If you want to be more careful than me (most people do) then I’d use a spudger or something plastic to lift the connector off the board.

Offline FBz

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Lombard SSD
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2021, 10:11:27 PM »
More careful here but not quite as lucky. First attempt with the adapter and SSD - no boot. So I swapped the spinner HD back in and still no boot. (I also had not loaded the OS installer CD prior to first attempted SSD boot.) Took a very long break after numerous attempts. Thought I’d bricked it.

After break, carefully re-seated everything (again) and it then booted to spinner (sigh of relief). Inserted MacTron’s 9.2.2 Emergency disk, powered down, replaced the spinner w/ SSD and rebooted… thinking I’d format the 120 GB SSD into (3) 8 GB partitions and leave the balance to a 4th partition. But…

SSD that I was using had previously been formatted into 2 equal partitions on a Quicksilver using Drive Setup 2.1. and it already had OS 9.2.2 (for G4 Mac Mini) on one partition and Tiger on the other. Approximately 59 GB each. (There went that ≤ 8GB notion.) It booted from the Emergency disk and both partitions mounted. I chose the OS 9.2.2 partition and rebooted. No problem. (Didn’t try to boot Tiger.)

So I may reformat the SSD (within the Lombard) this weekend and re-install a fresh OS 9.2.2 from the Emergency disk (instead of the Mac Mini version) and see how that goes. Might even try the different IDE44-SATA22F adapter to leave the preferred SATA2IDE44VAO adapter for the Mac Minis.

*When I first booted to the spinner and then removed it, it was very hot (after short amount of runtime). This Lombard is going to love the cooler SSD… especially as its’ fan isn’t working. (Always something.) One thing I did notice was that the HD cable pin sockets allow the pins of the adapter to push them out a little bit, I intentionally pushed them all back in flush.

You might also check “small print instructions” for your enclosure to see if it just might require a jumper. The Ableconn mSATA SSD-IDE sleds we tested back in 2018 for G4 Mac Mini DID require a jumper in some instances. (And I almost missed these instructions back then.) Might be worth testing those variables with your enclosure(?).


Offline SCSIJims

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2021, 07:24:52 AM »
I went ahead and returned my msata's and enclosures after seeing the naked ssd solution. There were no instructions an I tried a jumped...the weird part is I've seen them used on Pismo's on youtube.
SO, I am going to try to replicate your solution as closely as possible.
Is this the adapter you used?
https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Laptop-Drive-Female-Convert/dp/B085DJD9SQ/ref=asc_df_B085DJD9SQ/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=475789631743&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4498662969356345684&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9059726&hvtargid=pla-1006727886225&psc=1

Thanks so much, I was about to give up entirely after trying 2 enclosures and 2 ssd's AND a set of 2x 256mb RAM from Memory Masters that was only recognized as 128.

Offline FBz

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2021, 08:01:59 AM »

No. The adapter I used was originally tested “best” for the G4 Mac Mini.
It’s more of an all-flat, in-line orientation instead of that “L” sort (like the one you linked).

The SATA2IDE44VAO (AS331 V1.5) was sourced from:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/302898697852?hash=item46862b567c:g:HMoAAOSwHTlbqzQt
AND they’ve now reduced the price a bit… and w/ free shipping too.

Just wiped and reformatted that naked [ Inland 128 GB SSD / yielded (2) 59 GB partitions] in the Lombard and attempted to install OS 9.2.2 (Mactron’s Emergency & Disk Repair file) a couple of times in the Lombard. It tried but froze during the 3 attempts so I took the SSD downstairs and did it all in a Quicksilver (w/ a 40 pin adapter). Just brought the SSD back upstairs and into the Lombard. Booted fine - even with OS 9.2.2 on a 59 GB partition.

I always blame the Lombard’s 24X CD-ROM drive.

And now I also understand that the Lombard’s fan (reportedly) rarely spins up - so mine might actually be working? AND that pad & heatsink arrangement just doesn’t seem right. The Motorola chip is actually on the bottom side, opposite right corner and it’s “bare”. I doubt that even a little thicker pad would have much different effect. (Might even be better.) It all just gets H-O-T!!!

*Oh yeah, and I tried to boot from Tiger partition while it was still there and it really tried… but no-go. (Panther 10.3.9 is the limit - which I may eventually install on the other, second 59 GB partition.)

Offline SCSIJims

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2021, 07:55:36 PM »
It works!! Used the recommended adapter and a naked inland 128gb. My quicksilver was misbehaving and wouldn’t let me keep the split partition, but it worked anyway!

119.23 bootable ssd running os 9.2.2.

Here are the steps I followed (thanks to FdB/FBz!!!!)
1. Install inland professional (P/N: 128GMB) in the quicksilver using sata to ide bridge.
2. Boot from 9.2.2 installer disk.
3. Format inland ssd from drive utility.
4. Install os 9 to ssd.
5. Remove from quicksilver, strip casing, and install in Lombard using the recommended mini ide to sata bridge.

Thank you thank you thank you!!!
I was so bummed out I couldn’t get this working.

Going to use some leftover thermal pad from my intel motherboard refurb to replace the old thermal tape.

Only thing left is RAM. Can anyone recommend a working model for 2x 256mb? The ones I bought from memory masters didn’t work.

Thanks again! Love this forum!
« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 11:45:20 PM by SCSIJims »

Offline SCSIJims

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2021, 09:51:28 PM »
Have to share the beauty (attached!) I used standoffs to attach the naked ssd to the mounting case…an open face sandwich?
Still looking for ram recommendations if anyone has one!
« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 10:09:53 PM by FdB »

Offline SCSIJims

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2021, 04:24:19 PM »
UPDATE: Everything starts out well, but when I try to copy files from my usb stick, the system crashes. This usb stick is what I use to transfer files to my QS G4, so I know it is OS9 friendly.
Here's what I tried:
All peripherals disconnected. Running on A/C power (no battery).
1. Plug in USB stick, transfer 50mb file--total freeze partial way into the transfer. I thought maybe since there is only 128mb RAM (more on the way) this may be cutting a little close considering the OS takes up 30-something megs. Hard boot...not responding to pressing the button, have to pull the plug. :(
2. Plug in USB stick, transfer 20kb file--no problem! Moving to 3 without reboot.
3. Transfer of 5mb file--total freeze up, have to pull the plug again...
4. Reboot and freeze on desktop without doing anything :(((((

My PRAM battery is bad. Can't find a replacement. Could this be the issue??

What is happening?! Lombard is a puzzler.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 04:34:54 PM by SCSIJims »

Offline FBz

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2021, 06:49:23 PM »
Oh big surprise here too, just now!

I tried same and got the same lock-up (at first). Ran “Disk First Aid / Verify” on two of the USB sticks normally used here with G3’s and both reported B-Tree errors (among other things). Chose then to “Repair” them both and now problem seems to be solved.

So I’d recommend running Disk First Aid - “Verify & Repair” on your stick. (These are USB v 2.1.1)

And this Lombard only has 128 MB of RAM too and the PRAM battery has been dead a long time.
It’s now just finishing up a very slow copy of 663 MB’s. But it worked w/o fail. G’ luck. ;)

Offline SCSIJims

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2021, 08:34:34 PM »
Oh big surprise here too, just now!

I tried same and got the same lock-up (at first). Ran “Disk First Aid / Verify” on two of the USB sticks normally used here with G3’s and both reported B-Tree errors (among other things). Chose then to “Repair” them both and now problem seems to be solved.

So I’d recommend running Disk First Aid - “Verify & Repair” on your stick. (These are USB v 2.1.1)

And this Lombard only has 128 MB of RAM too and the PRAM battery has been dead a long time.
It’s now just finishing up a very slow copy of 663 MB’s. But it worked w/o fail. G’ luck. ;)

INVALID B-TREE ERROR ON MY USB DRIVE HOLY COW.
Unfortunately, looks like the repair was unsuccessful as it is coming up after 2 passes of repair--froze the computer up again.
I suppose the problem could be my generic microcenter flash drives?? Worked fine on modern systems--perhaps they are more forgiving.
Maybe I should opt for something like sandisk or kingston...
I will continue testing options tomorrow! Thanks so much, FBz.

Offline starmax

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2021, 11:30:50 AM »
Just ordered one of these off eBay so hopefully I'll be up and running soon.  I had previously tried to use the same IDE to m.2 SATA adapter that worked great in my Ti book, but it doesn't work in the Lombard.

Also, for those looking for more RAM, I just bought 512MB from this vendor:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/154471366571

I have bought lots of legacy RAM from them in the past, all worked perfectly.

Offline DieHard

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2021, 04:37:31 PM »
Quote
Is this the thermal pad (red dot in pic)? Or does the daughter card need be removed? If it’s the white pad, it can’t be more than a sixteenth of an inch in thickness. (I don’t want to peel it off.)

Just an FYI, yes, that is a thermal pad that transfers heat to the Aluminum plate above the CPU board,
DO NOT run the unit for more than a minute when testing scenarios without the plate in place, or you will eventually heat damage the CPU board.

Offline starmax

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2021, 02:31:52 PM »
So I received the IDE to SATA converter recommended above (eBay), and installed on a ADATA SSD.  OS9 works amazingly well, but I cannot get OSX to install.  The DVD spins up, spins down, up, down...  So I threw it into my Mystic G4 and installed Panther.  After re-installing into my lombard, I just get a spinning wheel on startup...  Done this several times now, but results are the same.  Today, I put an old OWC SATA-2 SSD in, and tried the same.  Booted into Darwin initially, but after a couple reboots, eventually I got into OSX.  Everything seems slow...    Pretty sure I have an Inland SSD around here somewhere, I will see if I can track it down.

In the meantime, I modified my CPU's heatsink (hoping to overclock my 400/66 to 466/83 eventually).  The stock one literally is plastic...  what a joke.  I removed a northbridge heat spreader from a dead MacBook pro logic board, applied some thermal paste and a new thermal pad on top of it and put it all back together.  Seems to be working well, the entire laptop cage is pretty hot.  Fan still not coming on though, but I'm pretty sure I heard it spin up last week, so I don't think it's dead.  Will snap a picture later once I have it apart again.

*Images resized. / FdB
« Last Edit: October 06, 2021, 07:35:51 PM by FdB »

Offline starmax

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2021, 10:03:42 PM »
Well I found my Inland SSD in an old Mac Mini, transplanted it into my Mystic, installed Panther, popped it into my Lombard and it still hangs on startup.  Wondering if OSX has to be installed within the first 8GB of the first partition, similar to the first Gen iMacs?  What are you guys using for a partition scheme?

Thanks!!

Offline FBz

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Re: PowerBook Lombard?
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2021, 10:50:12 PM »
2 equal partitions of ~59 GB each on a 128 GB naked SSD.
1st partition for OS 9 and the 2nd for Panther.

After several attempts, placed it into a Quicksilver and installed Panther.
Loooong boot sequence here due likely to only 128 mb of RAM.
(Takes forever to boot Panther with just 128 mb RAM.)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 06:48:06 AM by FBz »

Offline starmax

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2021, 07:24:51 AM »
Odd, not sure what my issue is then.  When I install OS9 and Panther on a HDD, both work great.  On an SSD, OS9 works great, but OSX hangs on startup.  I will try installing OSX within the first 8GB just to see if that's the issue, but my recollection about this problem was the partition wouldn't even be visible vs hanging, so doubtful that is the issue...  Assuming it's some sort of compatibility with the IDE to SATA adapter and the ATA interface on the logic board.  These early IDE implementations from Apple are really flakey.

Offline FBz

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2021, 07:48:43 AM »
Maybe you’re onto something. This is the first and *only G3 that I’ve ever installed an SSD in and I’ve avoided it until now. (Might just be expecting too much from a G3 PowerBook?)

With that said, I may eventually attempt an SSD into a G3 B&W here - but not a front burner project. Never liked OS X on this Lombard and had simply resigned it to being an “OS 9 only” machine. (HDD or no.) But, please do keep us all apprised of your findings or of any progress.

Maybe SCSIJims (above, this thread) has had better success with Panther?

*Not completely true. Did OS 9 SSD in a G3 iMac.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 08:17:27 AM by FBz »

Offline starmax

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2021, 09:56:33 AM »
Update:  Installed Panther (from my Mystic) on the first partition within the first 8GB of the SSD, got a no bootable disk icon in the lombard.  Had this happen previously, and found I needed to partition the disk in OS9 (check the install OS9 drivers checkbox in OSX is not enough).  Repartitioned the SSD in OS9, then installed Panther again (from Mystic), installed in Lombard and started in verbose mode.  After a long time it finally booted, but everything is slow.

I had a ton of issues getting an SSD to work in my Rev A iMac.  Tried 2-3 IDE to SATA adapters, but nothing really worked.  Finally ended up buying an IDE to CF adapter and CF card, which worked well.  Not much faster than a 7200rpm HDD, but a lot quieter.  Not sure if I'm willing to do that for this project, CF cards are kind of expensive...

Offline starmax

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2021, 08:05:59 AM »
Well, finally gave up on IDE to SATA solutions as none worked well enough in OSX for me and bought a IDE to CF adapter + SanDisk Extreme card.  Results are pretty good:

Test System: PowerBookG3/400-CF
MacBench Version: MacBench® 5.0
Disk Tests:
Disk: 2984 score
Publishing Disk: 1690 score
Sequential Read 512: 1320.76 kilobytes/sec
Sequential Read 1024K: 15333.03 kilobytes/sec
Random Read 512: 894.31 kilobytes/sec
Random Read 1024K: 15497.68 kilobytes/sec
Sequential Write 512: 5722.40 kilobytes/sec
Sequential Write 1024K: 14094.92 kilobytes/sec
Random Write 512: 188.71 kilobytes/sec
Random Write 1024K: 13554.27 kilobytes/sec

HDD Scores:

Disk Tests:
Disk: 1866 score
Publishing Disk: 1331 score
Sequential Read 512: 740.41 kilobytes/sec
Sequential Read 1024K: 12068.98 kilobytes/sec
Random Read 512: 63.54 kilobytes/sec
Random Read 1024K: 12225.16 kilobytes/sec
Sequential Write 512: 5419.10 kilobytes/sec
Sequential Write 1024K: 13806.79 kilobytes/sec
Random Write 512: 185.74 kilobytes/sec
Random Write 1024K: 13225.03 kilobytes/sec

Offline FBz

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Re: PowerBook Lombard SSD
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2021, 01:50:45 PM »
Appreciate your posted results from the CF route and have continued testing with the SSD + adapter here and just about ready to throw in the proverbial towel. Lombard boots and runs OS 9 like a rocket and then - only after the introduction of Panther in the mix... do things start to rapidly go south. Beginning to seriously wonder about SSD + adapters in G3’s.

Again however, OS 9 alone… does very well. ;)

Offline FBz

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G3 Lombard - Bad Romance
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2021, 02:22:15 PM »
After a mere FIVE DAYS of testing last week with various SSDs and multiple attempted OS installs, finally ordered a 256 mb ram stick for this Lombard (to arrive later today). In the meantime with the help of IIO’s upload of the (now) rare PPC checker app, the following is found to be true.



So if you’ve a Lombard PowerBook and find it difficult to install, or much less…
even run OS X Panther - this may be your problem as described here:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/537644

PowerPC 750L (LoneStar, Rev2.2) Copper G3 PVR = 0x00088202
If you have this CPU, you can only run a maximum of 256MB of RAM in the bottom memory slot.

If you do not have the troublesome CPU, and you are not storing a lot of stuff on your Lombard's HD, you could give either Panther or Tiger a test run with your current hardware.


THIS Lombard currently boots (after about ten minutes) Panther, with only 128 mb of RAM in the bottom slot and I’ll test it again with the new 256 mb stick later today. AND I installed Panther on the same (less than 8 GB) first partition where OS 9 also resides… which left about 112 GB of space remaining on the second partition of the 128 GB SSD.

I’ll update IF this Lombard even comes close to Starmax’s (thread above) benchmark results AFTER the installation of the 256 mb. Otherwise, anyone want a G3 PowerBook Lombard? (Make me an offer.)

OS 9 runs great! ::)

Offline teroyk

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Re: G3 Lombard - Bad Romance
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2021, 07:27:29 AM »
So if you’ve a Lombard PowerBook and find it difficult to install, or much less…
PowerPC 750L (LoneStar, Rev2.2) Copper G3 PVR = 0x00088202
If you have this CPU, you can only run a maximum of 256MB of RAM in the bottom memory slot.

Or could it be this problem, that it is hard to find the right type SO-DIMMs:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5581.msg41561.html
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline FBz

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Re: G3 Lombard - Bad Romance
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2021, 12:23:02 PM »
Very good point concerning possibly “improper” SO-DIMMs.

However, rather than trying the 3 different varieties that I did test in this Lombard (and the time it took to do so)… perhaps testing first  with the PPC Checker app for the PowerPC 750L (LoneStar, Rev2.2) Copper G3 might have saved considerable time, cost and effort.

Results from the single 256 mb test here last night provided better results booting Panther - but not that much better. So this Lombard will go back to an “OS 9 only” machine until such a time that a different CPU can be acquired. AND in the meantime, it’s likely that I’ll remove the SSD & adapter from the Lombard and re-install the original 6 GB HD. AND then, attempt the OS 9 and Panther re-install to check that performance with the new, single 256 mb of RAM.

AND it might be interesting to have SCSIJims & Starmax (on his now CF card - equipped Lombard) both run PPC Checker to see what their findings might be. AND if Starmax does have the “Copper” then his CF card approach might be a viable stopgap workaround for the Copper CPU?

CORRECTED: new RAM here is 256 mb NOT a single 512 mb as first posted.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2021, 01:53:52 PM by FBz »

Offline starmax

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2021, 12:52:27 PM »
PPC Checker for my Lombard 400 says:

PowerPC 750L
(LoneStar, Rev3.1)
Copper G3 with 10x
PVR = 0x00088300


I have been using 2x 256MB sodimms.  My problems definitely seem to be IDE related as native IDE drives and CF (basically IDE) work fine for OS9 and OSX, but OSX does not like IDE to SATA converters.

Offline starmax

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2021, 12:58:39 PM »
Side topic... Decided to go ahead and try to overclock my CPU this weekend, nearly ruined my board, but was able to get it working and stable at 433.

Tried:
83 Mhz Bus overclock, 6x multiplier (498Mhz) = no boot
66 Mhz Bus, 7.5x multiplier (500Mhz) = no boot
66 Mhz Bus, 7x multiplier (466Mhz) = about 50% boot success in OS9, 0% success in OSX, but worked great in OS9 when it booted
66 Mhz Bus, 6.5x multiplier (433Mhz) = boots and works great in OS9 and OSX

Offline FBz

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Re: G3 Lombard - Bad Romance
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2021, 02:02:15 PM »
Well, good show on that overclock. Congrats.
(Wonder about possibly increased internal heat.)
Pics of those multipliers?

And while you do have the “Copper”
it’s a later revision (3.1 vs. 2.2) and…
PVR (0x00088300 vs. 0x00088202.



Are the Rev 2.2’s most questionable?
That could be completely incorrect.
More testing here!

CURRENT INFO from Starmax:
“With CF/IDE adapter, cold Tiger boot time is about 45s
(bong to everything loaded in finder).“


A 45 second Lombard / Tiger boot!
(Is OS 9 also present / installed?)

Perhaps now it becomes a matter of if one wishes to improve
OS 9 (only) performance w/ an SSD and adapter? OR rather,
if one wishes to also run Panther / Tiger too?

At this point the CF route seems best for the latter scenario.
(With the Copper CPU?) A CF/IDE adapter in my future?

Starmax: Which CF/IDE adapter and sources?

So I’ll be re-installing the original HD and testing that again
before possibly testing the CF route here… as Starmax has
strong suggested that the SSD + adapter is the bottleneck.

*SCSIJims states he’ll test & report this weekend.
And teroyk, you running a Lombard too? PPC Checker?

Thanks all!
« Last Edit: October 26, 2021, 02:52:01 PM by FBz »

Offline starmax

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Re: G3 Lombard - Bad Romance
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2021, 03:14:44 PM »
Quote
CURRENT INFO from Starmax:
“With CF/IDE adapter, cold Tiger boot time is about 45s
(bong to everything loaded in finder).“


A 45 second Lombard / Tiger boot!
(Is OS 9 also present / installed?)

Yes, I have 9.2.2 on the first partition, 10.4.11 on the second, and a "shared" third partition.

Quote
At this point the CF route seems best for the latter scenario.
(With the Copper CPU?) A CF/IDE adapter in my future?

Starmax: Which CF/IDE adapter and sources?

CF Card:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NUB2Q9E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

IDE to CF Adapter:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036DDXUM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1


I had previously tried 2 IDE to SATA adapters, this one (which works great in my Ti Book, but not well in Lombard):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09D94LXRN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and this one (from a thread here):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/302898697852

This worked great in OS9, but OSX was a mess.  Lots of installs/formatting/re-install..  eventually got OSX to run but it was dog slow.

Offline SCSIJims

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2021, 09:28:13 PM »
I am still catching up on this thread although I fear the discussion may be beyond my limited understanding lol.
Will run the check on my Lombard this weekend and I did finally find a pair of 256 simms that worked at long last. If only I could find or hack together a PRAM I'd be 100% in business.

Offline randomshinichi

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2021, 11:05:52 AM »
I have a iBook G3 clamshell and G4, Powerbook G4 all running the M.2-IDE adapter from Sintech, Crucial MX500 256GB. It works flawlessly, no little issues. They do all kinds of adapters, and ship from China - I'd consider them 'the source'.

This is a M.2 SATA to IDE adapter, but there is also a mSATA to IDE adapter if you look hard enough.
http://eshop.sintech.cn/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=130_17&products_id=1037


Offline DieHard

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2021, 10:21:00 AM »
Quote
I have a iBook G3 clamshell and G4, Powerbook G4 all running the M.2-IDE adapter from Sintech, Crucial MX500 256GB. It works flawlessly, no little issues. They do all kinds of adapters, and ship from China - I'd consider them 'the source'.

If you get the time, can you post the results (Speed tests) on these units with the M.2-IDE adapter from Sintech

Offline FBz

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2021, 11:02:23 AM »
If you get the time, can you post the results (Speed tests) on these units with the M.2-IDE adapter from Sintech

Yes. And perhaps more specifically in this case... installed IN a Lombard. ;)

Offline SCSIJims

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2021, 07:04:41 PM »
Results are in:
PowerPC 750L
(LoneStar, Rev3.1)
Copper G3 with 10x
PVR=0x00088300

Offline FBz

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2021, 08:01:08 PM »

PowerPC 750L
(LoneStar, Rev3.1)
Copper G3 with 10x
PVR=0x00088300


Congrats!

Same as starmax's! You both are quite lucky.

Might run benchmark (like starmax) and
compare with his results - just for fun.

That would be a naked SSD + adapter
vs. his CF card approach. ::)

Offline SCSIJims

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2021, 09:52:45 PM »
Yeah, but mine is still somewhat unstable—and the worst part is I can’t cold boot without pulling the plug out the back! Holding power does nothing.

It may still be my usb sticks  :'( I tried the oldest one I own and it’s still showing errors no matter how many times I repaired it <\3
Any recommendations for bulletproof usb drives for os9?

Offline FBz

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LOMBARD!
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2021, 09:28:55 AM »
Benchmarks from this chip-challenged Lombard / with top RAM removed.



64 GB Compact Flash route = 2X the cost* of Inland SSD + adapter AND 50% less space.

Yet as the SSD + adapter runs OS 9 the best, it chokes badly when trying to run Panther.

*Unless you already have a CF card and needn’t buy one new.

Dual-boot Lombard w/ OS 9 and OS X on separate partitions?
                                   Compact Flash route.

Dedicated OS 9.2.2 machine?
   Naked SSD + adapter.

Offline DieHard

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Re: PowerBook Lombard 333mhz SSD
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2021, 10:21:36 AM »
FBz... posts don't get any better than this :)

It's always trial and error and then documentation when adding new storage technologies to these ancient machines... the results, a numbers game, produce some really interesting details... it's great to document the different variables... OS version, MB rev, storage type, etc.  and compare

This will inspire others to mod and report results :)

Thanks again !

 


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