Author Topic: Is it worth Running SCSI 160 Drives in 2021  (Read 535 times)

Offline Architecture

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Is it worth Running SCSI 160 Drives in 2021
« on: July 14, 2021, 07:21:19 AM »
I have a 64 Bit SCSI (APD-29160) and a 10K 36GB SCSI drive.

I currently run 2x 120Gb SSDs on the built in ATA buss on a G4 Quicksilver Dual 1Ghz.

SystemInfo bench score was around 3300 with the SSDs while the SCSI disc came in at 2500.

Main interest in seeing if there are any appreciable gains over ATA for audio recording.

I have a SIL3112 that I tried to flash but I have not been successful in flashing it.
PowerMac G4 2002 Quicksilver, 120GB/240GB HDDs, Delta 1010, RME Digi 9636 Connected to Allen and Heath ZED R16 via ADAT channels.

G4 MDD (1.25 Single/Dual). 2GB Ram, GeForce Ti 4600 Mac.

Offline DieHard

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Re: Is it worth Running SCSI 160 Drives in 2021
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2021, 09:23:51 AM »
Is it worth it ?

Definitely Yes !... Actually... No...

So if we go back in our time machine, the coveted Seagate Cheetah 10K.7 Ultra320 SCSI was the fucking bomb for recording on a QS
https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Cheetah-10K-7-Ultra320-ST3146707LC/dp/B003490AQ8

Track counts were about double or more and the DAW ran like lightning, that being said, against today's SSDs you would have to really dive in and test.
There are many technical reasons why SCSI kicks the ass all over IDE, remember the SCSI interface basically has it's own CPU and controls read/write operation via the independent and high-speed SCSI card.

Also the drives themselves allow multi-access, and Tagged Command Queuing (TCQ) that allows the operating system to send multiple read and write requests to a hard drive (although newer ATA has this also). ATA TCQ is not identical in function to the more efficient Native Command Queuing (NCQ) used by SATA drives and SCSI TCQ does not suffer from the same limitations as ATA TCQ; however, AFAIK new SSD technology uses and even better implementation of NCQ.

Let's not forget the HEAT added to the system cannot be understated !  If you want to fry a few eggs up, just take out the 10K SCSI with mittens.  Even the SCSI controller chips can get hot enough to burn skin.

And let's remember the whole defrag/optimize regiment with mechanical drives :(

My conclusion, although SCSI is so damn amazing and technically interesting, it's a dead art.  It was obviously ahead of it's time, since it took 15 years to get the features into other storage technology...

Today, go for the low maintenance, cool, SSD, and leave SCSI in the history books

Offline IIO

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Re: Is it worth Running SCSI 160 Drives in 2021
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2021, 11:54:07 AM »

Main interest in seeing if there are any appreciable gains over ATA for audio recording.


when the ATA in a quicksilver has a max transfer of 100, and the PCI one of 133, you know what you could eventually gain by adding something else.

what is left is the amazing search time. compared to the orginal HD of the quicksivlers from 2001 it is outstanding. but any cheapo SSD is 3 times faster.
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Is it worth Running SCSI 160 Drives in 2021
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2021, 12:02:01 PM »
https://store.inertialcomputing.com/SCSI2SD-s/100.htm?searching=Y&sort=1&cat=100&show=50&page=1



SCSI2SD could be the modern approach. 62-65 bucks +  a microSD card.

Quote
Up to 10MB/s under optimal conditions.
Worst-case performance is generally ~5.5 megabytes/second
« Last Edit: July 14, 2021, 12:28:22 PM by Protools5LEGuy »
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline Architecture

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Re: Is it worth Running SCSI 160 Drives in 2021
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2021, 01:29:48 PM »
https://store.inertialcomputing.com/SCSI2SD-s/100.htm?searching=Y&sort=1&cat=100&show=50&page=1



SCSI2SD could be the modern approach. 62-65 bucks +  a microSD card.

Quote
Up to 10MB/s under optimal conditions.
Worst-case performance is generally ~5.5 megabytes/second

SCSI2SD is great for old slow SCSI devices like Mac Classic IIs, Quadras, and Se30s.

Was looking more at the 160mb/s bandwidth vs 66mbps of the ATA/66 QS bus.
PowerMac G4 2002 Quicksilver, 120GB/240GB HDDs, Delta 1010, RME Digi 9636 Connected to Allen and Heath ZED R16 via ADAT channels.

G4 MDD (1.25 Single/Dual). 2GB Ram, GeForce Ti 4600 Mac.

Offline Mat

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Re: Is it worth Running SCSI 160 Drives in 2021
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2021, 01:54:05 PM »
I'd say it's worth, as long as you have stuff around. Of course it makes no sense to buy new SCSI disks or PCI cards for houndrets of bucks, but if something is around or cheap, go for it. See my posting regarding my 64bit SCSI card. http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5520.msg40923.html#msg40923 To be honest, this AGP with Sonnet 1,2 GHz feels snappier than my MDD with SSD,
Also my 88MB read speed is more than you'll get by the 66 IDE bus. And finally, I trust SCSI disks more than modern SSDs! Somehow I have the feeling that these working animals, running for 15+ years now and coming straight from serving a professional crowd back than, will last longer than novadays 30 buck SSDs.

Offline Syntho

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Re: Is it worth Running SCSI 160 Drives in 2021
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2021, 07:39:00 PM »
Is it worth it ?

Definitely Yes !... Actually... No...

So if we go back in our time machine, the coveted Seagate Cheetah 10K.7 Ultra320 SCSI was the fucking bomb for recording on a QS
https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Cheetah-10K-7-Ultra320-ST3146707LC/dp/B003490AQ8


This is all I run in my Powermac 9600s. Fast, rock solid, just perfect.

 


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