Author Topic: The right way to exchange text files between OSX and OS9?  (Read 1264 times)

Offline Y2K

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 23
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
The right way to exchange text files between OSX and OS9?
« on: July 18, 2021, 11:43:39 AM »
When I save a text file as plain text .txt in OS X and move it to OS9, all the line breaks are replaced with a square character and the text is all crammed to one paragraph as a result.

Search-replace is tedious because you can't type line breaks to the "replace with" field (because pressing enter = pressing OK), nor can you type the square character manually. So I always have to copy the square, then search-replace them with "ZZZ", after which I manually type a line break, copy it, and then go search-replace every ZZZ with a the line break which I just copied. This is probably something Applescript could handle naturally if I studied what the differences of modern and vintage Applescript were, but surely there must be a better way?

What format, encoding, or software should I use in OS X when I'm saving a plain text file to send to OS9?

Offline Mat

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The right way to exchange text files between OSX and OS9?
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2021, 03:10:29 PM »
The format of choice is "Rich Text Format", .rtf, as it is plattform independent, can be used at any Operating System and offers a lot of possibilities. At usual texts you will not see differences to .doc or .odt files! The programs do not matter, all offer rtf, like Libre Office, Word, AppleWorks, RagTime, Papyrus, … and about 5000 more.

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3450
  • just a number
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 132
Re: The right way to exchange text files between OSX and OS9?
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2021, 03:51:50 PM »
the main issue with OSX vs OS9 is that the onboard text tools are not compatible.

for example .rtf will not open wihtout third party applications, but is the default of even the old PPC OSX textedit program.

however, there are many text applications for OSX which are "downwards compatible" with simpletext & co., not to speak of microsoft word and others.

on my PPC i use mainly iText and BBEdit for interchangeable files, because they are available for both OS and do not depend on unicode crap.

if you dont need to edit in 9, then html of course is also a good choice to export from macOS apps such as bean.
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline Y2K

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 23
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The right way to exchange text files between OSX and OS9?
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2021, 05:54:58 AM »
The format of choice is "Rich Text Format", .rtf, as it is plattform independent, can be used at any Operating System and offers a lot of possibilities. At usual texts you will not see differences to .doc or .odt files! The programs do not matter, all offer rtf, like Libre Office, Word, AppleWorks, RagTime, Papyrus, … and about 5000 more.

Hmm, I tested saving from TextEdit as .rtf, and I'm afraid that results to even more jumbled text than saving as plain text...
What I'm looking for is a way to exchange information (plain text), no formatting required; A way to send links, ideas, messages etc. between the two computers. I like to write on an old machine, but manage projects and send messages on the modern one.


the main issue with OSX vs OS9 is that the onboard text tools are not compatible.

for example .rtf will not open wihtout third party applications, but is the default of even the old PPC OSX textedit program.

however, there are many text applications for OSX which are "downwards compatible" with simpletext & co., not to speak of microsoft word and others.

on my PPC i use mainly iText and BBEdit for interchangeable files, because they are available for both OS and do not depend on unicode crap.

if you dont need to edit in 9, then html of course is also a good choice to export from macOS apps such as bean.

Actually, on my OS X Intel as well as OS X PPC machine, I have set TextEdit to do plain text by default. I use it for quick note taking, and I find the formatting options to be both a visual distraction, and a mental distraction because it makes me start looking for a less distracting font. I just assumed that plain text would be as simple as that, and easily transferrable!

At the moment I'm sending ideas between the computers in my local network, but in a way, I guess sending things by e-mail wouldn't be impossible; But setting up e-mail for the PPC machine was quite difficult, and I don't know if it's even possible for a Mac OS 9 machine, due to the protocol stuff.

I just got Bean for my most modern machine, but in the context menu for Export HTML is greyed out. Any ideas why that is?

So the Intel OS X and PPC OS X are communicating alright. I basically don't require the OS9 and PPC OS X to communicate, but I would like to exchange text between OS9 and Intel.

Offline Mat

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The right way to exchange text files between OSX and OS9?
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2021, 07:20:42 AM »
Sorry, but what you like to do is, to use your X texteditor files with 9, that would have been the correct question.

See here for example, to get an first overview: http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/utilities_editors_mac.html

The rest of your posting is a little bit, well ... this is not a Mac OS X support forum! Of course a usual .rtf file works flawlessly at Mac OS 9. Also setting up mail is no problem at all. Only the encryption can become tricky at some ugly mailproviders like gmail (but as google is scanning all mails for updating their advertizment databases with your improved profiles, you shouldn't use it anyway).

Best would be if you follow IIOs suggestion and care for a X program that is SimpleText compatible!


Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3450
  • just a number
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 132
Re: The right way to exchange text files between OSX and OS9?
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2021, 10:14:52 AM »
At the moment I'm sending ideas between the computers in my local network

if you only to send stuff to work on it elsewhere (and not store the same file on both machines) that is not the worst idea.

whenever it is only a few lines of text i also just use a chat/bbs program to "transfer" that, i.e. the program which is running anyway already when i also need to transfer files between 9, X and windows.

for OS9 and OSX PPC there should also be working solutions to share the clipboard content across the network. that´d be option #3.
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline Y2K

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 23
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The right way to exchange text files between OSX and OS9?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2021, 11:58:32 AM »
Sorry, but what you like to do is, to use your X texteditor files with 9, that would have been the correct question.
No, I do mean exactly what it says in the title: needing to take the text files to and fro between OS X and OS 9. Most of the files make round trip, but the biggest problem I get with encoding is always at the OS 9 end.

The rest of your posting is a little bit, well ... this is not a Mac OS X support forum!
Oh I'm sure no one else's issues here concern how to successfully transfer files between OS 9 and modern Macs...
The problem with OS X forums is that most people there are too young to have experience with OS 9, while people on OS 9 forums have experience of both, and therefore very possibly with the file exchange between the two.

Of course a usual .rtf file works flawlessly at Mac OS 9.
Can you describe how an .rtf file saved from TextEdit using something like Helvetica for a font is 'unusual .rtf file'? What makes a usual .rtf file?

Also setting up mail is no problem at all. Only the encryption can become tricky at some ugly mailproviders like gmail (but as google is scanning all mails for updating their advertizment databases with your improved profiles, you shouldn't use it anyway).
As I have learned with the PPC machine. What e-mail providers are you guys using with OS9?

See here for example, to get an first overview: http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/utilities_editors_mac.html
Hmm, maybe I could test SUE? I'm looking for something lightweight comparable to TextEdit. Its link seems to still work, unlike some of the others.

At the moment I'm sending ideas between the computers in my local network
if you only to send stuff to work on it elsewhere (and not store the same file on both machines) that is not the worst idea.
Typically I'm transferring the same file to and fro and when it's finished, I take it down to the hard drive of some computer, typically the modern one simply because it's more likely to get regular backups and already have a long history of archiving documents.
Example: I've got casual e-mails or long and conversational instant messages piling up on my main computer, and I can't find the time to reply to them because there's to many distractions ➜ I copy them to text files and send to a vintage computer ➜ I find it a breeze to write replies in the distraction-free environment with a small screen, and send the replies back to my main computer to be passed on to the recipients. It might sound like a hassle to some, but for me, it's a genuinely inspiring way to represent the challenge in a way that instantly makes it easier to tackle.

whenever it is only a few lines of text i also just use a chat/bbs program to "transfer" that, i.e. the program which is running anyway already when i also need to transfer files between 9, X and windows.
What program? I tried to get Jabber to work on OS9 some time ago because I'm successfully using it in OS X with Adium, but so far my OS 9 is without any working instant messaging means. Jabbering to myself of course would be a bit unpractical because it means that I need to have both computers running and logged on; The ideal format would be something where you can finish the work, send it, and open it on the other computer when you've got a good moment to do so — such as when you've slept on it.

for OS9 and OSX PPC there should also be working solutions to share the clipboard content across the network. that´d be option #3.
Hmm. As I'm now using DAVE to send files over the local network, would sharing the clipboard get rid of the encoding issues or simply reproduce them in a different format, I wonder? That again might require both computers to be on though, I'm guessing.

Offline ovalking

  • Veteran Member (100+ Posts)
  • ****
  • Posts: 172
  • new to the forums
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The right way to exchange text files between OSX and OS9?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2021, 12:50:28 PM »
Search-replace is tedious because you can't type line breaks to the "replace with" field (because pressing enter = pressing OK), nor can you type the square character manually. So I always have to copy the square, then search-replace them with "ZZZ", after which I manually type a line break, copy it, and then go search-replace every ZZZ with a the line break which I just copied. This is probably something Applescript could handle naturally if I studied what the differences of modern and vintage Applescript were, but surely there must be a better way?

I don't use OS X enough to provide sound advice with that, but suggest you have a look at BBEdit Lite (Lite is the freeware version). It's a very powerful text editor available for 9 & X.
I'm sure files would work fine with that. But it would allow you to do a search-replace with line breaks if needed! Use \r to represent a line break.

Offline Pyewacket

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 13
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: The right way to exchange text files between OSX and OS9?
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2021, 01:11:01 PM »
Search-replace is tedious because you can't type line breaks to the "replace with" field (because pressing enter = pressing OK), nor can you type the square character manually. So I always have to copy the square, then search-replace them with "ZZZ", after which I manually type a line break, copy it, and then go search-replace every ZZZ with a the line break which I just copied. This is probably something Applescript could handle naturally if I studied what the differences of modern and vintage Applescript were, but surely there must be a better way?

I don't use OS X enough to provide sound advice with that, but suggest you have a look at BBEdit Lite (Lite is the freeware version). It's a very powerful text editor available for 9 & X.
I'm sure files would work fine with that. But it would allow you to do a search-replace with line breaks if needed! Use \r to represent a line break.

I second this suggestion. I’ve been using BBEdit practically since it first was released. Using it I’ve never had issues with exchanging files between 9 and X (or with windows when needed) The search/replace is very robust even in earlier versions. I believe the last version that is compatible with 9 is 7.1.4.  BareBones doesn’t have versions that old, but Macintosh Garden has a lot of older versions including that one.
Have proudly been a girl geek since before it was a ‘thing’ :)

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3450
  • just a number
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 132
Re: The right way to exchange text files between OSX and OS9?
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2021, 01:38:39 PM »
Quote
What program?

carracho/hotline/firstclass/kdx came with a bulletin board, which works perfectly to exchange different classes of raw texts for different purposes such as programming, html projects, collecting ideas, authoring texts in a workgroup (or multi-computer-setup run by one person)

possible UTF or language releated conversion issues will still exist in some situations but that is releated to the app which the text was created in, and has to fixed there.

the hotline protocol is available for linux, bsd, win, macos 8+, OSX, OSX intel, iOS, amigaOS and BeOS.

if you are new to this kind of network application it might be overkill to install it only a for 5 texts per week.

but generally copy/pasting text fragments across the net is far more convienient than downloading/uploading files.

btw, the easiest cross platform solution without local server is ftp.
get some webspace for 1 dollar per month and put some super leightweight ftp-client on every computer.
this comes handy when you want to perform the transfer now, but the other computer will only run tomorrow. :)
it is far less work than using an USB stick, plus you have an extra backup in a third place for free.
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline Mat

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The right way to exchange text files between OSX and OS9?
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2021, 08:21:05 PM »
Can you describe how an .rtf file saved from TextEdit (…)
That is exactly what I am talking about! You are talking about your one X program as if it is the center of the universe. It is kind of X-centric view of the world. Why do you expect Mac OS 9 to offer solutions for something X is producing, … ? Especially after IIO told you that there are several programs for X offering compatible solutions for 9.
Why should an Mac OS 9 forum can explain you what your X machine and programs are doing? I have no idea about TextEdit and what it is doing. But .rtf is a format that works well for the last 30 years at every (!) plattform. So, if TextEdit produces crap regarding .rtf files, it is TextEdits problem, not Mac OS 9s problem. Get an other texteditor for your (X) system! And stop postulating that it is Mac OS 9s problem to not use Unix text encoding!

Sorry if all of this sounds rude (take as well into account that English is obviously not my first language), but after 20 years it is simply annoying that 2/3 of "Mac OS 9" talks are about the disabilities of other Operating Systems and their programs, and just pretended about Mac OS 9.

Offline Mat

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The right way to exchange text files between OSX and OS9?
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2021, 08:27:45 PM »
BTW, you could try solutions form Mac programmes who are on board since 68k and cared about your wishes 20 years ago, like Tex-Edit plus, which is available for 68k System 7.1 up to X 10.12 at least: https://tex-edit.com/

Offline FBz

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 283
  • Fury-Fungus FdB/FBz
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 44
RTF to Clamshell?
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2021, 10:33:00 PM »
OR…

If you’re bound and determined to...breeze on the distraction-free, smaller screen of your Clamshell(?)

Two-partition the HD on the Clamshell and install OS 9.2.2 on one partition and OS 10.3 on the other. That will then give you TextEdit (under Panther) instead of SimpleText (OS 9) and there should be no problem reading / editing or adding text to .rtf files generated from your newer Mac… and then back again. You just won’t be using OS 9… or any number of the many previously mentioned OS 9 convoluted approaches.

I tried Appleworks 6.2.3 on an iBook PowerPC G3 / 800 MHz - running OS 9.2.2 (with only 256 MB of RAM) and it really tried to open the .rtf file from TextEdit (El Capitan) before simply locking up (several times). That same iBook with OS 10.4.6 (dual boot) installed on a 2nd partition, opened the .rtf file in TextEdit instantly.

So perhaps a dual boot setup with Panther / OS 10.3 and OS 9.2.2 would easily resolve this… for your distraction-free, smaller screen "fun" on a Clamshell?

(And I used a USB stick to move the .rtf file.)  ;)

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3450
  • just a number
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 132
Re: The right way to exchange text files between OSX and OS9?
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2021, 11:47:07 PM »
mat seriously needs a holiday trip.
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline Mat

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The right way to exchange text files between OSX and OS9?
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2021, 12:07:33 AM »
mat seriously needs a holiday trip.
No. We told him several different possibilities. He just talks about TextEdit from X. And now we are down to suggest installing Mac OS X for exchanging text files with Mac OS X TextEdit, … Guys that is simply farcically! If you do not see how absurd this whole discussion is, and think the problem is that I need a holidy, I can´t help.

There is no real problem! He just needs to download an other texteditor like the Tex-Edit plus that I suggested in my last posting.

Offline macarone

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 91
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The right way to exchange text files between OSX and OS9?
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2021, 05:16:15 PM »
> We told him several different possibilities. He just talks about TextEdit from X.

Exactly right! It's like when you suggest using DiskWarrior or Drive Genius and someone keeps asking why can't I use Disk Utility.

There are versions of Tex-Edit Plus for OS 9, OS X PPC and OS X Intel.

The versions for OS 9 and OS X PPC are mutually compatible, but they will NOT open files created on Tex-Edit Plus 4.9.11 and later. I cannot read Tex-Edit Plus files created by version 4.9.11 on 4.9.8.

Not a unique situatation. QuarkXPress 6 and QuarkXPress 8 files are mutually incompatible.

Same with music files created on different versions of Finale.

On an Intel Mac, I suggest zipping Text Edit and Text-Edit Plus then trashing the apps and using TextSoap to read files created by either one of them.

Tex-Edit Plus sugguested I update my version. I d/l'ed the next version, mounted the .dmg which had a lot of "Read me's" before installing, on it which I could NOT open in Tex-Edit 4.9.8, and realized I better NOT update.

Sort of like when Stuffit made Stuffit Expander available for d/l as a .sit file. If you need Stuffit Expander, how are you  going to unstuff it? Eventually, they reposted it as an .smi file.

Offline Mat

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The right way to exchange text files between OSX and OS9?
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2021, 10:58:40 PM »
Thanks for your understanding guys. Sometimes I feel completely alienated by such discussions

The versions for OS 9 and OS X PPC are mutually compatible, but they will NOT open files created on Tex-Edit Plus 4.9.11 and later.
Thats no problem. He has a lot of versions online, like the v. 4.9.8 for X. See: https://tex-edit.com/software/

Also I missed that Tex-Edit is running at System 6 as well!

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3450
  • just a number
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 132
Re: The right way to exchange text files between OSX and OS9?
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2021, 02:45:19 PM »

There is no real problem! He just needs to download an other texteditor like the Tex-Edit plus

you seem to prefer that the OP uses your method and ignore that he might have other backgrounds or needs.

and i cant follow you with the rtf thing: 29 out of 30 free text editors for OS9 dont know anything about that format.

the only thing i hate more than "textedit" in OSX is "notepad" in windows. so yes, best is to ignore all that crap and use something which is cross platform by default.
insert arbitrary signature here

Offline FBz

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 283
  • Fury-Fungus FdB/FBz
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 44
"Right Way"?
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2021, 10:47:32 AM »
TL/DR? Try MacLink Plus.

The use of Tex-Edit Plus in this case now seems to become speculative at best, given that it is unknown from which version of OS X that Y2K’s docs originate. AND as Y2K previously mentioned an Intel-based Mac in his mix, it seems that Tex-Edit Plus (version 4.10.4) would then be required.

Have read back through Y2K’s first 20 posts here and there have been some difficulties encountered installing OS 9 and assorted other programs on the Clamshell (if we are indeed discussing the Clamshell here). So maybe a dual boot setup on it’s hard drive might be more than Y2K would care to approach at present (especially if it entails re-installing all of those other programs AGAIN).

Note: I was not advocating Panther 10.3 with OS 9 running under the screwball “Classic” setup on one HD solitary partition. [Separate. TWO different partitions.] On machines with only one HD the benefits of a dual boot setup become readily apparent… especially if and when problems occur with OS 9 / 9.2.2 and files need be attempted recovered from a non-booting OS 9 partition, etcetera.

And I’m well aware of the initial nightmares of OS X inhabiting the same HD when first introduced by Apple… and as a result, I still continue to Command+S when working on any file, on any Apple OS since then. What an absolute freakin’ nightmare. Shock-the-monkey.

And really… The “right way” to exchange text files? Is there really one right way… or any number of ways to approach this with more than adequate… and perhaps even quicker and easier results?

Sooooo

Spent many hours Sunday with Tex-Edit Plus 4.1.3 (OS 7 thru 9) and Tex-Edit Plus 4.10.4 (OS 10.4 thru 10.12) because I was attempting to transfer text files saved from Apple Mail 9.3 (El Capitan 10.11.6) and transferred to OS 9.2.2. AND THEN back again.

On the dual-boot G3 iBook. Initially, unzipping the tep413.zip file with Stuffit Deluxe 7.0.3 yielded me nothing of much use under OS 9.2.2. Instead, I then unzipped it under OS X / 10.4.6 and it provided me with an installer. Double clicked on that and it asked for the location of my “Classic”. I then simply moved that installer to the OS 9 partition and clicked on the installer again to actually install it under (and on) the OS 9.2.2 (partition).

Tex-Edit 4.10.4 was an easy and uneventful install on El Capitan.

AND again, we know not which version of X that Y2K is using / transferring from?
*See TE README.png attached below for caveats.

Now a way-longer story; shorter… I saved an RTF file from Mail on El Capitan, which I then opened in Tex-Edit 4.10.4. I attempted numerous “save as” options and FINALLY found one that worked. (After many “Error Detect” and “No Convert” messages with Tex-Edit 4.1.3. under OS 9.2.2.)

Guess which “Save As” option finally worked?

Save As: SimpleText

BUT again, I did save the original email as RTF under Apple Mail 9.3 (El Capitan) before then opening that with Tex-Edit 4.10.4… to then save it as SimpleText. And I’m quite certain that possibly all of the above could be easily scripted to work perhaps seamlessly. But I’ve other things to do.

…like thinking about downloading Tom Bender’s Eliza program because after this thread and all these posts - I do wonder if I need a psychologist / psychiatrist… but perhaps his Azile program “a cranky therapist who couldn’t care less what your problems are” might be entirely, much better suited for me.

https://tex-edit.com/

And P.S. Thay ain’t no “right way”.


Update: / BIG (little) Addendum:



A little birdie here suggested using good ol’ Mac-Link Plus… and we’ve a download link > http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3852.msg25937.html#msg25937
Shorter story, much shorter now… Mac-Link Plus opens and translates RTF files direct from El Capitan AND even RTF files created by Tex-Edit Plus 4.10.4.
You need only choose what program you’d like translations written to - or copy+paste the MacLink Plus “view” into a SimpleText file under OS 9.2.

Offline Mat

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The right way to exchange text files between OSX and OS9?
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2021, 05:00:51 AM »
And finally there is another possible solution: A new and widely unkown Mac OS 9 texteditor called "FreeStyle", which is changing the line ends automatically. I uploaded it in another thread: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,6052.msg45100.html#msg45100

 


SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal