Author Topic: Building the World's Fastest Power Mac G4, Part 1  (Read 1015 times)

Offline DieHard

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Building the World's Fastest Power Mac G4, Part 1
« on: July 05, 2021, 08:31:34 PM »
It's great to see Upgrade videos being made in 2021 !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZVI9vum6f4

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZVI9vum6f4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZVI9vum6f4</a>

Offline IIO

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Re: Building the World's Fastest Power Mac G4, Part 1
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2021, 01:15:13 AM »
"retro"
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Offline GaryN

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Re: Building the World's Fastest Power Mac G4, Part 1
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2021, 02:09:38 PM »
What the guy did was install two 7448's and clock them at 2 GHz. Essentially a homemade Sonnet MDX.

Offline DieHard

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Re: Building the World's Fastest Power Mac G4, Part 1
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2021, 02:49:00 PM »
What the guy did was install two 7448's and clock them at 2 GHz. Essentially a homemade Sonnet MDX.

Correct-a-mundo Gary,

You will like this video, because he found an amazon Mini-ATX 500Watt power that fits with no mods needed !
Even the damn powercord lines up :)

Disclaimer, the small Power supply is Pricey :(

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJHjYkdKAgg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJHjYkdKAgg</a>

Offline Mat

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Re: Building the World's Fastest Power Mac G4, Part 1
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2021, 10:27:53 PM »
What the guy did was install two 7448's and clock them at 2 GHz. Essentially a homemade Sonnet MDX.

Correct-a-mundo Gary,

I didn't get it. What upgrade is this, what did he do, and who is the guy who gave it to him that he is talking about in the video? Double of the CPU performance would make sense for people like me.

Offline IIO

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Re: Building the World's Fastest Power Mac G4, Part 1
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2021, 01:03:31 AM »
the funny thing is that he runs his MDD at 133 mhz and connected the SSD to the slower main ports. :)

the other funny thing is that he thought minecraft would run faster because of a faster CPU.

minecraft for PPC was pre-server/client and of course it does not use both processors. diehard´s 1.5 Mhz SP with GF Ti could probably keep up with this.

"fastest", "best" and "newest" just generate clicks, that is all.
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Offline Mat

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Re: Building the World's Fastest Power Mac G4, Part 1
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2021, 01:24:03 AM »
IIO, you are right, and of course I think the same about buzzwords. But would you be so kind and answer my questions? ;)
He is not the one who produced this upgrade, so what is it exactly and where from. I really do not know where from you got the informations about this upgrade, … and the MacBench doesn't look that bad or worthless. Programs like Photoshop and others with built in DP support could benefit from this.

Offline FBz

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Re: Fastest?
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2021, 07:27:32 AM »
Well, this certainly has piqued some interest ‘round here.

And perhaps if that (“homemade Sonnet MDX”)  dual 2 GHz processor upgrade [from Hurd(?) @68kmla?] was available AND affordable / compared to the Sonnet Encore / MDX G4 Duet 1.8 GHz (which are currently outrageously expensive and more rare than proverbial hen’s teeth)… then we might be talkin’.

AND what about the “spring spacers” for the heatsink… as the new processors are taller? Needs to be a little more exact or baking of zee chips could occur. ???

Did get a bit excited here about that FlexGURU FSP-50FDB ATX power supply until: (1). I saw the price > $150.00 and (2). I also saw a thread where complaints of noise and heat were mentioned (and fans replaced) https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/fsp-mini-flex-guru-fsp500-50fdb-500w-psu.14285/

You can get one for $139.99 direct from FSP (in the U.S.) https://www.fspgroupusa.com/ecommerce/ipc-psu/flex/fsp500-50fdb.html And Newegg has the 300 Watter for $114.99 - but that’s a bit weak. AND you also still have to purchase that ATX adapter cable too.

So depending upon the total cost of all the above possible upgrades, one might be more fiscally responsible to acquire a G5 (very inexpensive lately) IF the desire for Photoshop & dual processing power is sought. I’ve one solely dedicated for Photoshop (and compared to my lowly 1.25 GHz DP MDD - it really isn’t all that much mo’ better).

MacBench baseline comparison was up against a PM6100/ 60 MHz. AND in 2nd video - the SSD moved to ATA 100.

Mac OS 9 Lives also mentioned more than once in the YouTube comments.

I did enjoy the choice of SATA bridge adapter in the video… or should I say Bribge?


Feel the need for speed? (From the comments under Part 1 video.)

Further reference… https://thehouseofmoth.com/ppc-overclocking-station/

Offline Mat

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Re: Fastest?
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2021, 08:40:06 AM »
one might be more fiscally responsible to acquire a G5
Did I miss anything? Was the forum renamed to macosXlives lately? ;)

So no, one might not, if one likes to use the OS that the forum is about.

And yes, "Hurd" was what I understood as well, but IIO talkes like if he knews more, …
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 08:59:10 AM by Mat »

Offline DieHard

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Re: Fastest?
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2021, 09:31:55 AM »
Did I miss anything? Was the forum renamed to macosXlives lately? ;)
So no, one might not, if one likes to use the OS that the forum is about.

Well, he did show it booting to OS9, so I added this comment...
Quote
It should be noted, Although you show this card booting into OS9, there is no 3D acceleration support so this card becomes basically an OS X only card in functionality. In Mac OS 9, this card will perform worse than the cheap MDD stock card by far, with terrible window redraws and other issues.  For OS X, this baby is great !  If you plan to use and Video Editing or DAW Apps in OS9, then this card is NOT for you :(
which is an important point since newbies will not realize this

Offline IIO

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Re: Building the World's Fastest Power Mac G4, Part 1
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2021, 09:56:41 AM »
But would you be so kind and answer my questions? ;)

excuse my ignorance.

wasnt it in the video? didnt he say something like "i got this from a friend" and "it is a custom build".

whatever that means... i am not exactly sure. maybe it is a sonnect dual 1.6 which has been overclocked. that is what friedns of mine did in 2002 with their racked G4 for development. (i think it burnt down after a few months^^)

Quote
He is not the one who produced this upgrade, so what is it exactly and where from.

sure, if you only want clicks, you leave out the actual information and just tease the audience.

i just want to remind you that sonnet once pulled their dual 1.8 product because it ran too hot.

 so whatever it is, it is probably not a realistic alternative to the existing processor cards, which are the dual 1.4 and the dual 1.33 xserve with more cache (the latter is eventually 3% faster for audio and photoshop.)
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Offline Mat

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Re: Building the World's Fastest Power Mac G4, Part 1
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2021, 10:45:29 AM »
IIO, I have to apologize, I confused you with GaryN who stated "what the guy did". I just thought there is more information around, or I didn't get it from the video as my english is not the best, or there is a "known" hardware hack out there. But it is up to Gary to answer why he knows "what the guy did" ;) not you! Sorry again.

Offline GaryN

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Re: Building the World's Fastest Power Mac G4, Part 1
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2021, 03:43:00 PM »
IIO, I have to apologize, I confused you with GaryN who stated "what the guy did". I just thought there is more information around, or I didn't get it from the video as my english is not the best, or there is a "known" hardware hack out there. But it is up to Gary to answer why he knows "what the guy did" ;) not you! Sorry again.

The card was originally a 2 x 1.25Ghz. What you missed is "the guy" "Hurd" who modified it described the build on the Mac 68kMLA Forum
https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php
although I took a quick look and can't seem to find it…
Even so, in the YT video, the card is clearly shown and described to be changed to two 7448 procs, which is basically what Sonnet did to create the MDX 2 x 1.8Ghz that I have.

Although I have heard of others clocking the 7448 at 2Ghz (and possibly beyond), I have never tried for a few reasons:

* In OS9 any proc running old Mac apps at 1Ghz or beyond feels like witchcraft anyway with windows flying open almost instantaneously and things that used to take time are now accomplished seemingly in seconds.
* In the Ghz range, you start to bump up against other limitations of the old OS such as only one proc used, but more importantly, the app designs themselves were created around the capabilities of the original PPC hardware running in the 400Mhz range with limited RAM as well. So, it feels as though data is processed in smaller chunks for the sake of reliability and such. Remember, old Mac OS developers lived in constant fear of releasing an app that would crash because that would usually crash the entire machine as well. With updates distributed on hard media that had to be burnt and snail-mailed, that could easily turn one's app into a pariah that no one wanted very quickly and it was welcome to bankruptcy court…
* In OSX, although 2 x 2Ghz can create a speed improvement in processor-heavy tasks like recalculating spreadsheets, processing Photoshop images and such, only those who insist on using "ancient" software to do large amounts of serious work see any real benefits.
* Sonnet chose 1.8Ghz as the "sweet spot" where the 7448 is at optimum balance of speed vs. temperature. Indeed, my Sonnet CPUs ran cooler right out of the box that the 1.42Ghz ones they replaced. It's just a better proc, period.
* Sadly, the common things like websurfing and watching cat videos are still impossible to do without extreme difficulty due to other things than CPU speed. The miraculous convergence of lots of old audio and MIDI hardware and software turned into abandonware, which is capable of creating state-of-the-art-sounding results, which led to the creation of this Forum to begin with, is still by far the best reason to use this vintage stuff.

Offline Knezzen

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Re: Building the World's Fastest Power Mac G4, Part 1
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2021, 10:07:37 AM »
Cool stuff. I pushed mine to 2ghz 3 years ago or so. Typical sensational YouTube titles :)

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3523.msg28437.html#msg28437

Offline re4mat

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Re: Building the World's Fastest Power Mac G4, Part 1
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2021, 02:54:57 AM »
I love this kind of thing. To me, it's the PPC Mac equivalent of hot-rodding an old car; it's not so much about the practicality so much as it is the satisfaction of pushing the hardware as far as you can. I've been working for a couple years now on hot-rodding my iMac G4 (1st gen), and just the research and studying alone has been immensely rewarding, as it has helped expand not only my understanding of the platform, but of electrical engineering in general. And after I've done all the mods to it that I want to do, I'll have a pretty kickass machine that will also be fun to show off.

Offline TheOdinnson

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Re: Building the World's Fastest Power Mac G4, Part 1
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2021, 07:35:38 PM »
I'm with ya'll I love hot rodding these older machines. I got a G3 Pismo that is pimped out with extra VST swappable drives and what not. Even got a Superdisk for it and Zip drive =D.
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