Mac G4 Processor Cache - Please read and contribute findings

[DieHard]

OK... As you may know (or not know)...;

1) The Apple System Profiler under Mac OS 9.2.2 reports L3 Processor cache as L2 and does not show speed

2) The Apple Tech Tools Series shows L2 cache and ignores L3 cache amount

So...I would like to ask Mactron (and all members) to download the Appropriate G4 Diagnostics disk from our download boards
and click the "Hardware Profile" tab and post the Machine Serial Number, Model Number, G4s CPU Speed, Cache, and Cache Speed, I will also try to get some time to boot the 15+ G4 in my storage area.

System 1
Mac G4 MDD 1.25 Ghz. Single, Serial Number G84244ZGPC4
Model Number..: M8570
Sales Number...: M8573LL/A, M8840LL/A, M9145LL/A
Production Year.: 2004
Production Week: 25 (June)
Apple Hardware Test Version 1.2.6 (For MDD or Quick Silver)
CPU...: PowerPC,G4 @ 1250 Mhz.
Cache: 1024K L3 @ - 149 Mhz.
Note: Mac OS 9 System Profiler Reports 1 MB L2 Cache


System 2
Mac G4 MDD 1.25 Ghz. Dual, Serial Number XB40204LPC1
Model Number..: M8570
Sales Number...: M9145LL/A
Production Year.: 2004
Production Week: 03 (January)
Apple Hardware Test Version 1.2.7 (for MDD FW400)
CPU...: 2 x PowerPC,G4 @ 1250 Mhz.
Cache: 1024K L3 @ - 178 Mhz.
Note: Mac OS 9 System Profiler Reports 1 MB L2 Cache

[MacTron]

OK, DieHard.
But what's the point in using Apple Hardware Test instead of the easiest Sonnet Metronome app?

One of the my MDD's :

[supernova777]

how do u have 167mhz bus speed?
the sonnet app itself overclocks 133mhz g4 to 167?

[MacTron]

how do u have 167mhz bus speed?
the sonnet app itself overclocks 133mhz g4 to 167?

167 Mhz is the "native" bus speed of MDDs. (by the way, it can be overclocked to 172 with motherboard oscillator change) although some "low end" MDD's were working at 133 Mhz for marketing reasons  (this is easy recoverable via motherboard multiplier resistors settings). Well I never have done it, it is easiest try to acquire the good ones (167 Mhz)

[supernova777]

how do u have 167mhz bus speed?
the sonnet app itself overclocks 133mhz g4 to 167?

167 Mhz is the "native" bus speed of MDDs. (by the way, it can be overclocked to 172 with motherboard oscillator change) although some "low end" MDD's were working at 133 Mhz for marketing reasons  (this is easy recoverable via motherboard multiplier resistors settings). Well I never have done it, it is easiest try to acquire the good ones (167 Mhz)

yes ok but the "sonnet" name made me assume this was a system using a sonnet cpu... which i understand now that it is not... and is a "stock" MDD overclocked to 1.5ghz from 1.25 i assume..
i will go ahead and guess that for this testing purpose tho, Diehard would prefer to use official apple cd-boot diagnostics! for consistancy + accuracy

[MacTron]

System 3
Mac G4 MDD 1.250 Ghz. Single, Serial Number J5335YUOPG6T
Model Number..: M8570
Sales Number...: M8573LL/A, M8840LL/A, M9145LL/A
Production Year.: 2004
Production Week: 25 (June)
Apple Hardware Test Version 1.2.7 (For MDD or Quick Silver)
CPU...: PowerPC,G4 @ 1500 Mhz.
Cache: 1024K L3 @ - 107 Mhz.
Note: Mac OS 9 System Profiler Reports 1 MB L2 Cache

[DieHard]

OK... Processor Over-clocked and cache running slower.... WFT is going on with that ?

[supernova777]

remember i told u.. when cpu overclocks.. the cache gets out of sync. thats what i read about them overclocking the QS 733 to 933 because there was no cache on that cpu version to get out of synch or mess up by the over clock

[DieHard]

"Out of Sync"... I can understand that the cache may not not able to handle the higher cycles... but to run slower with more voltage ?  I am still confused

[MacTron]

OK... Processor Over-clocked and cache running slower.... WFT is going on with that ?

It's a good question.
In my opinion, Apple hardware reports aren't trust but of the standard configuration.
I'll put an extreme example: I have an Sawtoth with a motherboard bus speed swich (100/120/133 Mhz) and a 7448 (from NewerTech) with a speed swich (1400−2000 Mhz) Sonnet Metronome always show correctly all this settings acording with 7448 tecnical specsheet and Sawtoth Uninord specsheet and the results in speed test. But Apple hardware reports are wrong in more than half of the configurations.
I'm not a MOD expert, but I've overclocked over a dozen of Macs (and some PC) and this happens usually.

[DieHard]

Thanks Mactron

[Syntho]

My 1.25GHZ G4 is showing 1MB L2 cache. I thought it was supposed to be 2MB. Is that normal?

[supernova777]

i think only the 2002 1.25ghz had 2mb l3 cache

[Syntho]

Excuse me, i meant to say that it has 256kb L2 and 1MB L3.

So that means that I can get a better system if I would have gotten the 2002?

[Syntho]

http://everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_1.25_mdd.html - I typed in the last 4 digits of my serial and got this machine. It says 2MB L3 cache. DieHard noted that the profiler says 1mb so I'm not sure if this is normal or not.

[supernova777]

yes thats exactly the point they were discussing..
that everymac 's info is seemingly incorrect
that fact is what started this thread just a few weeks ago
as diehard was annoyed he thought he had 2mb andd realized he only had 1mb
lol;)

of course there are other machines that have 2mb
this fact was brought to light by mactron when i posted my powermac g4 comparison chart
see the chart here:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=578.0

youll notice im lazy and havent updated the chart to reflect this fact however -- rofl;)

[Syntho]

Ok now I understand! There is a thread where they discussed this too: http://www.morphzone.info/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8088&forum=11

They said the correct info is here: http://lowendmac.com/2003/power-mac-g4-mid-2003/

So now I'll take a look at the info here and in the thread you linked and see if that extra MB of cache is beneficial...

[Syntho]

That chart is interesting. I don't know if it would be worth it to get a new DP 1.25 for that extra MB of cache. I guess that's what we're trying to figure out right now?

[supernova777]

i think i even remember readng it being listed as 2MB *Per processor*, = 4MB L3 cache total on the ones that are listed as having 2MB cache
this is what i saw on a screen shot send to me by someone who wanted to sell me an mdd 2002 DP 1.25

check attached image

ok looking closely this image says 1.42Ghz MDD

[Syntho]

Is there any way to run a bench utilizing only 1 CPU in the DP 1.25? I'd like to see a direct comparison of a single 2mb L3 CPU compared to the 1mb L3 1.25 like on my MDD 2003.