Power Mac G4 Chart - for comparing models (CPU | Cache | etc)

[Mat]

I do not understand. Why are you excluding all DP machines for OS 9 completely? OK the system isn´t using the 2nd CPU but some applications like Photoshop can.

Because DieHard said

DieHard is right, but you were talking about the fastest, and not about the coolest and most stable Mac Os 9 machine like he recommended the single CPU Macs for

And GaryN you are right. I made a new thread with software that uses both CPUs.

[MacTron]

So, if I want to have the best OS 9 machine:
a) get "7" = 1,25GHz G4 single, 167MHz cache, 1MB L3 cache and overclock to 1,5GHz (to get highest CPU clock + highest FSB)
b) get "7" and put in "10" = Single 1,33GHz G4 Xserve CPU, 167MHz FSB, 2MB L3 per core (to get highest CPU clock + highest FSB + biggest L3 cache)

The "b" option is my favorite. But with the the single 1,33GHz G4 Xserve CPU overclocked to 1.5 Ghz, plus a Ti4600 and a SSD ... 

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1726.msg8203#msg8203

if we can trust Geekbench, I mean a 2x1,8GHz 7447 is just as fast as a 1.42GHz DP 7455...:

That's false. A 2x1,8GHz 7447 is just as fast as a 1.66GHz DP 7455, but faster than a 1.42 GHz DP 7455. I had posted the data somewhere...

[DieHard]

From Mactron...

The "b" option is my favorite. But with the the single 1,33GHz G4 Xserve CPU overclocked to 1.5 Ghz, plus a Ti4600 and a SSD ... 

This is also my current config. on my 3 OS 9 MDDs (but No Overclocking), Since I could not source the CPUs only, I bought 3 XServes on ebay (all for less than $60) and pulled the CPUs...
Remember, Mactron and I are both CuBase VST 5/32 users on OS 9, so we opt for the Single/Cool/Fast CPU flavor, also, Mactron converted me to TI4600, and we both use SSDs...

[MacOS Plus]

I had a question, so I hope no one mind this thread getting bumped:

  One thing I've had great difficulty verifying is a complete, correct way of properly identifying individual revisions of motherboards by part number or otherwise within a particular model.  One good example of this that I do know well-enough is the rev 1 vs rev 2 B&W G3 boards issue which affects the ATA controller.  While it is important to know the specifics of an already assembled system, individual motherboard revisions can have differing abilities that are key from a functionality standpoint when buying replacement parts or trying to outfit a particular case with the best possible version.  Other stand-out issues are rev 1 QS G4 not supporting large ATA drives, and the varying abilities and bus speeds of the numerous MDD and FW800 boards.

  Does anyone here have the expertise to create charts for at least the MDD and QS detailing how to clearly and correctly identify each motherboard revision available, what unique abilities each one has, and what the shipping ROM version would be?  Clear photos of each version would also be greatly appreciated.  Perhaps this could be cross-referenced to the tower model numbers that would have used them.  I know this is all tricky because there are numerous production sequence codes that apply to boards of the same revision, and that multiple PCB model numbers reference the same revision board.

[GaryN]

   Does anyone here have the expertise to create charts for at least the MDD and QS detailing how to clearly and correctly identify each motherboard revision available, what unique abilities each one has, and what the shipping ROM version would be?

Lot of folks here capable of creating a clear readable chart. Problem is, who's got the data?

Garbage in, garbage out…

[DieHard]

Well, from the many QS & MDD Boards I have seen (minus logic board 820-1276-A that peaks out at 128 GB); functionality is pretty much the same across the board for Logic boards that have the same bus speed, so I am unsure of exactly what you want documented. Back in the day, I benched QS boards that came out of every model (including "educational" units w/crazy part numbers) and I even had 2 Apple "prototype Red MBs" and all benched pretty much equally and had no fuctional differences.  As far as MDDs, Mactron and I compared some notes and again... no real differences to document.

There is one note worth mentioning to people that "Overclock" MDDs from Mactron that certain CPU daughter boards overclock much better than others, but he is the overclock expert   So for more info, contact him.

[MacTron]

Here you can find some extra info:

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2903.msg18351#msg18351

And here about MDDs CPU modules:

[MacOS Plus]

  All very good info, thanks.  What I was trying to get at is there are many part numbers for the motherboards, but they are generally grouped into revisions, and I would like to be able to easily identify these revisions by some printed number on the board when I am looking at buying parts or whole systems on eBay or other online stores.  One website that sells replacement parts refers to three different revisions of MDD board in addition to the FW800 versions.  And of course also there are the earlier and later revisions of the QS motherboards, the earlier one not supporting 48-bit drive access.  Trying to get accurate information about a particular item from a seller can often be next to impossible.

  My concern is that even if performance is generally the same within a given group, revisions had to have occurred for a reason.  There may have been bug fixes, documented or not.  A few bugs are well known in G3 boards that could not be resolved with firmware updates, as in the reason for and desirability of the rev.2 B&W boards.  I am mostly concerned with the potential for problems with the ATA controllers and general PCI bus behavior.  I've crashed every Mac I've ever owned due to all sorts of hardware 'voodoo' and messing around with high-performance add-ons.  Knowing whether or not I have the last revision motherboard for a particular model gives me a good idea if a specific configuration is truly a no-go for all revisions.  Many of these different boards have different base firmware versions, and we all know how various Apple firmware versions can have serious potential impacts on a system.

[DieHard]

From MacOS Plus..

I am mostly concerned with the potential for problems with the ATA controllers and general PCI bus behavior.  I've crashed every Mac I've ever owned due to all sorts of hardware 'voodoo' and messing around with high-performance add-ons.  Knowing whether or not I have the last revision motherboard for a particular model gives me a good idea if a specific configuration is truly a no-go for all revisions.  Many of these different boards have different base firmware versions, and we all know how various Apple firmware versions can have serious potential impacts on a system.

I have prepped over 800+ QS and MDD units and I assure you that the issues you are describing almost non-existent in these models (unless you have a hardware issue).  A much more real concern would be modifications (search our forum) to MDD units to quiet them down.  QS 933 is the "quiet" choice, but obviously the MDD can provide about 30% more horsepower for Virtual instruments and other taxing software.   Also, as pointed out many times, on the software level, extensions can accidentally load in the same memory space and cause conflicts/crashes, but these issues will be at startup and will be sorted out pretty easily... no re-installs, no windows registry, just track down turning extensions on or off.

There are no ATA issues, no crazy rouge firmware versions to stay clear of.  I have added many 3rd party software/hardware extensions to the system and the "rare" incompatibility issues are NOT unique to a logic board rev. when you are working with the MDD & QS models.

[MacOS Plus]

  Thank-you very much.  This is very helpful input and definitely the level of informed experience I was hoping to hear from.  Also, you previously noted the early-rev QS part number of the board with the drive size limit, which will serve me well in my purchasing 'escapades'.  Coincidently, the only QS I own is that same one you noted.  I will carry on testing my existing systems with confidence.

[DieHard]

  Happy computing

[MacOS Plus]

  Hey, MacTron, I think there's one minor typo in your CPU chart.  In the MDD 2003 dual CPU, the second CPU speed rating says 1.24 instead of 1.25.  Are all the MDD and xServe CPU modules technically interchangeable?  (Keeping in mind the bus speed, of course, and alternate heatsinks required in the xServe too.)  I know the compact Sonnet unit fits both.

[MacTron]

  Hey, MacTron, I think there's one minor typo in your CPU chart.  In the MDD 2003 dual CPU, the second CPU speed rating says 1.24 instead of 1.25.

OK thank you.

  Are all the MDD and xServe CPU modules technically interchangeable?  (Keeping in mind the bus speed, of course, and alternate heatsinks required in the xServe too.)  I know the compact Sonnet unit fits both.

Yes, the MDD and xServe CPU modules are fully interchangeable. In fact the xServe G4@1333 single, is my favourite for MDD, Because being single, it runs cooler and have 2Mb of L3 caché, I have two happily running at 1.5 Ghz
Do a search about all of this, if you like.

[Xeon3D]

But are the XServe Slotloading cpu boards swappable with the ones in a 2003 (The OS9 reedition) Single 1.25GHz MDD?

I'm looking to buy one (if you know someone or some shop in Europe that does sell them please advise), but I also have no idea on what to do regarding the Cooling, so if you have any pointers, they'd be most appreciated.

[DieHard]

Apple Xserve G4/1.33 (Slot Load)
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/xserve/specs/xserve_g4_1.33.html

As Mactron mentioned, the CPU Board works 100% compatible.  I use the stock cooler and it runs fine. I have 4 MDDs all running the 1.33 singles. I recommend if you are using OS9 only to use this model that is a single (it runs cooler).  If you are running OSX also then go for the:
Apple Xserve G4/1.33 DP (Slot Load)
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/xserve/specs/xserve_g4_1.33_dp.html

If you go DP then purchase a Copper Cooler for the MDD

[Apfel]

@Supernova

one additional fact for your list:
According to everymac.com the are three QS models that came with two CPU-types at the same time. I assume they were short of chips and took some older ones. They come either with 7455 or 7450.
https://everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/index-powermac-g4.html (see for the asterisc and the info in each QS's single spec sheet, when you expand the CPU entry on everymac.com's single QS's spec sheets.)

Models, look at attachment.

[macStuff]

that info cant be accurate.. noone has ever seen a 7450 type cpu that is 933mhz or 1.0 ghz??
from what i know to be true at least

everymac.com has been known to have alot of hard to find mistakes

but yes.. it seems like i left out the dual 1ghz quicksilver when i made this chart
https://everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_1ghz_dp_qs.html
actually no? its in there.. just says DP QS near the bottom