Digidesign Sound Designer II

[P.O.]

There is an astounding lack of information about historic Digidesign setups. I'm in the middle of this right now, trying to find info on cards and interfaces that are unidentifiable and/or have no information on them, and setups that are at best vague.

By the way, in this undertaking, I am looking for copies of original "ProDeck" and "ProEdit" that made up the first ProTools Digidesign package, as described here: https://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/digidesign-pro-tools/9294   Any clues? Nevermind, I found PT 1.1 on The Garden.

I am getting a real kick to recreate a four track digital audio setup that cost some $15 000 at the time...

[smilesdavis]

There is an astounding lack of information about historic Digidesign setups. I'm in the middle of this right now, trying to find info on cards and interfaces that are unidentifiable and/or have no information on them, and setups that are at best vague.

By the way, in this undertaking, I am looking for copies of original "ProDeck" and "ProEdit" that made up the first ProTools Digidesign package, as described here: https://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/digidesign-pro-tools/9294   Any clues? Nevermind, I found PT 1.1 on The Garden.

I am getting a real kick to recreate a four track digital audio setup that cost some $15 000 at the time...

join the club man, im trying to applesauce/greaseweasle/kryoflux those old pace protected floppies but here in EU its even harder to come by them. if you get your hand on anything put em on the garden. this will also spark interest in old apple computers because at the time they were the only ones running digidesign stuff.

[DieHard]

if you get your hand on anything put em on the garden. this will also spark interest in old apple computers because at the time they were the only ones running digidesign stuff.

At the time, circa 1996 to 2000, it was an amazing era and the really cool thing about old Mac computers and audio was the variety or setups and pricepoints on hardware and software.  I was setting up so many different setups for clients... Expensive PT "hardware tape machines" with hardware DSP, or PT Lite (with native processing) or VST with native processing, or VST hybrid (with UAD-1, Powercore hardware DSP) or MIDI only with Performer or DOS Voyetra... it was only a few years earlier, that many of us that were using using hardware sequencers like a Roland MC500 and then graduated to Voyetra or Performer and tape sync (7 tracks of tape audio, 1 Track FSK) with computers as sequencer (40 plus MIDI tracks), hardware samplers, and outboard mixers... and then evolved to attempting to produce all those results all "within the box" on a mac G3/G4.

The complexities of patch bays, racks of outboard gear, tube replacements, soldering cables were now replaced with the complexities or Master clocks, interfaces, motorized faders, delay timing charts, digital master 2 tracks, HD client backups, etc.  Then like a collapsing super nova, the racks dis-appeared as Snow Leopard hit in 2009, as did many mixers, hardware samplers, racks of romplers, racks of effects... it was clear in 2010 that the Mac Pro (or equivalent) could do it all natively and be the virtual tape machine, virtual effects rack, virtual mixer and virtual sampler ALL at the same time.

Now the dust settled, some would rebel the single master computer "Audio GOD" approach, they would clean and re-rack some old samplers/romplers, buy some real synths, re-buy their favorite tube compressor and make their Mac share the glory with some other hardware.  Like the past, their is a wide variety of setups, but it is clear that for the majority of young beginning musicians, they would never get to hear the "real" instruments or play with the "real" knobs, the effects of that on their psyche can now be debated      

[DieHard]

As far as the zenith of legacy DigiDesign, PT 5.1.3 and OS9; both TAD and Knez have shown that is can still exist in the modern world as a real means of production and NOT just a thrilling "experiment"...

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,6467

Hell, even guys like "BT" that are widely known, explain their reasons for using some old software that has features that were unique...and not duplicated today
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1611

Fron Knez...

Not really. I ended up switching from Mac OS 9.2.2 on the MDD and my big Pro Tools MIX|24 system to a Mac Pro 2.1 running OSX Mavericks and a Pro Tools HD3 system.
Now we're in the process to switch back to the MDD because it sounded soooo much better than the HD3 system does, and we had more plugs. It was a more distinct sound.

After that has been done I'm hoping that the final switch has been made and we can stay like that for a couple of years.

[smilesdavis]

theres definately 2 approaches here

- the latest and greatest
- period-correct maxed out systems

in recent years the period correct retro approach has surfaced which means best rig possible in say 1994.
- Quadra 950 with max upgrades
- Digidesign ADAT Digital Interface (1994)
- Audiomedia II (1991)
- Cubase Audio 2.0 (1994)
- Cubase Score 2.0 (1994)
- MasterList CD 1.0 (1994)
- Pro Tools 2.5.1 (Aug 3, 1994)
- Pro Tools II System Accelerator (SysAxe) (Grey Matter Response) (1992)
- Pro Tools III 888 IO Audio Interface (Nov 1994)
- Pro Tools III Disk IO, NuBus
- SampleCell II Nubus (1993)

you get the idea

same approach for say a IIfx or a G4 450 upgraded to 1.8, which i now finally can plug 2 Sonnet Express PCI in that I finally found and are on the way to me

its not about whats actually useful any longer its a appreciation of technology, a keeping alive of technology

its basically kids -yes compared to some people who lived through the time and gratefully are still around- instead of repairing classic cars are repairing and maintaining classic computers, its whats happening now.

[ivanshpak]

It's one thing to collect and save, it's another thing to work on these systems, for me it's a kind of "setting", which has its own limitations that turn into advantages.

For example, I have an 8100 with Audiomedia ii and Lexicon NuVerb, the system works well and I know a huge number of very experienced and elderly sound engineers who have such a configuration on a par with Lexicon 480 or 300, on the other hand I want to get rid of 8100 and work all the same, in one machine (2003 MDD), via the NuBus to PCI chassis

[P.O.]

When I say information is hard to find, it's stuff like this:
I have different Digidesign cards. there's usually no name on them, only "assy Nr". those numbers return nothing when you search them on the internet. And where there is a name , it returns nothing either. Sound Accelerator, Sound Accelerator II, Sound Accelerator II/2, you'll have to work hard to positively identify them. Want info on the "Pro I/O"? good luck!. Every step of the way is arduous research. There's no database of ancient Digi hardware. The cards I especially had trouble with are in this thread http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=6650.new;topicseen#new

Having recently installed the 442 interface and "442 card" in my Quadra 700, I realised I had the core of the Original Pro Tools. That made me curious to live what would have been the experience of using that pioneer DAW. This is for kicks: I certainly don't expect to do any bread-and-butter work on this setup, but I want to see what was it like. I see no interest in going for the "last possible version". But I may want to get re-acquainted with SDII, which I used a lot in the past.

[smilesdavis]

All good all easy,

Explains at least why they are so rare and pricey, people ripped them open plundered them and tossed the rest in the dumpster.
So we learned something today kids.

[P.O.]

The picture from preterhuman is a sound accelerator II. As stated a few posts back, it's written on the card. I have one, it works well in the Quadra with SDII with my Pro I/O card, which I like because of its wery wide range LED meter. And this is just another installment of the lack of official information saga about Digi hardware. I have one for you: can you find any official info about the function and use of the quarter-inch jacks on the Sound Accelerator II and the Audiomedia 1 cards?

[DieHard]

The forum did not crash, I had to "prune" 3 posts.  It would be great if among this small community (of like minded people), we can keep it civil.

You guys are the best, so let's reflect that in the posts, a lot of people count on this place for info, not drama

[ssp3]

Thanks!
This stuff shouldn't have been here in the first place - it hardly applies to OS9, hence it's way off-topic.
My apologies.

[robespierre]

A little hard to follow the discussion with parts of it missing, but I guess it was about people who take the DACs out of Digidesign 442s and "DAT I/O"s and sell them?

[smilesdavis]

I have a...Lexicon NuVerb...via the NuBus to PCI chassis

i am so looking for a nuverb, i only have the tdm adapter for one. its my nemesis. i keep missing out on it

do you have the second wave you mentioned? talked to bolle, its gonna be impossible to clone them so take good care of it

[P.O.]

I have now my historic Sound Tools (and Pro Tools) setup working, and first thing that strikes me is: THE NOISE!!! The friggin' , godawful mighty noise from the computer, whirring hard disks... I annoyed me at the time, and it is still mighty insupportable.
Can't see how anyone can do serious audio work amidst that racket. If you can afford a machine room, good for you!

I unearthed my last bit of the original Sound Tools setup: the DAT I/O. Heaviest little audio box you can find.
I also found ancient brochures for Sound Tools, Deck and Pro Tools. Finally a printed appearance of the Pro I/O in the Pro Tools brochure.

[smilesdavis]

I have now my historic Sound Tools (and Pro Tools) setup working, and first thing that strikes me is: THE NOISE!!! The friggin' , godawful mighty noise from the computer, whirring hard disks... I annoyed me at the time, and it is still mighty insupportable.
Can't see how anyone can do serious audio work amidst that racket. If you can afford a machine room, good for you!

I unearthed my last bit of the original Sound Tools setup: the DAT I/O. Heaviest little audio box you can find.
I also found ancient brochures for Sound Tools, Deck and Pro Tools. Finally a printed appearance of the Pro I/O in the Pro Tools brochure.

"machine room" and kvms are the only way.. for scsis, the system hdd can be replaced with something quiet

the funny part is the cool ancient shots with the mac along the mixing spot

if i can come up with anything to trade you for that nuverb let me know, id use it as my main production verb if i ever get my hand at it

PTSoft v1.1.5 (1992)
Apple Macintosh IIfx (1991)
Radius Color Display
Apple Macintosh Video Display Card Radius
Pro Tools 442 Core System (442 Audio Card, 442 IO Audio Interface)
Pro Tools 4-track Expansion Kit (1992) x3
Pro Tools System Accelerator (SysAxe) (Grey Matter Response) (1992)
ProStore - Optical 650 MB or 1GB
ProStore - High Capacity Hard Disk Drive (650 MB)
ProStore - 1 Gigabyte Hard Drive
JLCooper CS10 Control Station (w/replaced master level
Kensington Macintosh II Stand and Extension Cables
Sony Trinitron KV-1380R

did i miss something?

[P.O.]

You did miss something: I have no NuVerb...

[smilesdavis]

I have an 8100 with Audiomedia ii and Lexicon NuVerb

indeed it was late and i mixed you up, so sorry, my bad.

i just stumbled across an ancient google groups posting thats also related to nubus (im getting a 3rd expansion rack donation next week, its full, fingers crossed theres nuverbs in there, i need some luck )

>Hi, anyone know if it is possible to run Protools 5 on a Powermac 8100 with a
Nubus Project card and 882 I/O interface?<
In an officially approved Digidesign manner, NO. In a "don't ask ANY
questions of Digidesign because it's unsupported" and in a "they know about it
and are kinda willing to overlook the minor hacking of their DAE/DigiInit which
is technically a violation of your software agreement" way yes, but you
probably need a Newertech G3 card in your 8100 - it's too slow and Sonnet card
are incompatible.

You will have to work out any tech problems yourself and there are problems
with some plug-ins (although I haven't had any problems). The special
DAE/DigiInit combination (so-called "Nubus Care Package") was slightly modified
by a longtime and respected Digi user but it's a "you must _never_ ask Digi for
support" thing. They're overlooking it, you have to buy your V.5 upgrade with
no guarantees, and it's technically hacking their software which is problematic
for a software developer as you might imagine.

BTW Protools v 5.1 will not work; I understand that in that version they
removed all nubus related code, which had to happen at some point.

anyone got those? is it a simple regedit? 8100 with G3 newer upgrade i finally found, will try to hook up expansion chassis in the free nubus middle slot.

The last version of PT software that had nubus code support is Version 5.01, but the DAE And Digi init were not upgraded by Digi, but the "Nubus posse" on DAW MAC had a little "Nubus care kit" with modified DAE/DSI that would enable the V5 software.

[ssp3]

A1: yes
A2: no

[smilesdavis]

A1: yes
A2: no

too abstract for me, what do you mean?

[P.O.]

That means he's taking NO CHANCES...

[robespierre]

Your prior post contained two questions ("Q1" & "Q2") and those were his answers.
It probably involves code patches to Gestalt / hardware check routines at the very least

[smilesdavis]

im currently looking through the mailing list that published those nubus patched dae/dsi.. maybe ill find something

[ivanshpak]

I have a...Lexicon NuVerb...via the NuBus to PCI chassis

i am so looking for a nuverb, i only have the tdm adapter for one. its my nemesis. i keep missing out on it

do you have the second wave you mentioned? talked to bolle, its gonna be impossible to clone them so take good care of it

Yes, and you can’t even imagine what efforts it took to get it, I understand all the exclusivity of this device, but everything works.

I want to tell you that NuVerb is worth finding and using.

[smilesdavis]

I have a...Lexicon NuVerb...via the NuBus to PCI chassis

i am so looking for a nuverb, i only have the tdm adapter for one. its my nemesis. i keep missing out on it

do you have the second wave you mentioned? talked to bolle, its gonna be impossible to clone them so take good care of it

Yes, and you can’t even imagine what efforts it took to get it, I understand all the exclusivity of this device, but everything works.

I want to tell you that NuVerb is worth finding and using.

do you use it on a standalone 7100? ive read that its "almost" the only way to get it to work

fingers crossed one is in the next expansion chassis im gonna get, its full, lets hope its not another 6 samplecell ii and a nuverb this time

may i ask you how to get it going properly if i come across one?

[ivanshpak]

I have a...Lexicon NuVerb...via the NuBus to PCI chassis

i am so looking for a nuverb, i only have the tdm adapter for one. its my nemesis. i keep missing out on it

do you have the second wave you mentioned? talked to bolle, its gonna be impossible to clone them so take good care of it

Yes, and you can’t even imagine what efforts it took to get it, I understand all the exclusivity of this device, but everything works.

I want to tell you that NuVerb is worth finding and using.

do you use it on a standalone 7100? ive read that its "almost" the only way to get it to work

fingers crossed one is in the next expansion chassis im gonna get, its full, lets hope its not another 6 samplecell ii and a nuverb this time

may i ask you how to get it going properly if i come across one?

Any machine with NuBus will do, I use SoftwareFPU, for machines with PowerPC processors, on OS8.6

If we are talking about PCI machines, then we need a Second Wave chassis (with extension for chassis) and also a Software FPU utility, I can upload the extensions for NuVerb themselves here

[smilesdavis]

ok i sourced and will get 4 nuverbs next week. for free. but it didnt happen until i have them in my hands, as always

[IIO]

it is totally legit to collect digidesign soundtools cards with original software in sealed boxes, but one issue remains with this kind of stuff: it won´t run in OS9.

while some people here are only interested in the latest version of everything and bringing OS9 to the future (SATA 300 cards, silent fans, mac mini OS, replacement PSUs, knez´s torrent and jabber apps, making collections complete, making a PPC version of simpletext , latest photoshop and latest PT...) - others look at the PPC and go back to OS7 systems.

which raises the question if there is interest to bring older apps, which dont work there yet, to MacOS9 by modifiying and updating them.

[smilesdavis]

it is totally legit to collect digidesign soundtools cards with original software in sealed boxes, but one issue remains with this kind of stuff: it won´t run in OS9.

while some people here are only interested in the latest version of everything and bringing OS9 to the future (SATA 300 cards, silent fans, mac mini OS, replacement PSUs, knez´s torrent and jabber apps, making collections complete, making a PPC version of simpletext , latest photoshop and latest PT...) - others look at the PPC and go back to OS7 systems.

which raises the question if there is interest to bring older apps, which dont work there yet, to MacOS9 by modifiying and updating them.

since bolle told me the second wave nubus to pci xpanses contain unobtanium cant cant be copied (the easiest way - plug it into a g4) we are also hunting for at least g3 firmware of those, its out there, people are slow to dump it (waiting game). for now the only way is upgrading those old nubus rigs with sonnet and newer and try to get it to run os9. there is a modified "Nubus Care Package" that was floating around in '99 which brought a pro tools iii nubus rig to Pro Tools 5.0.1, combined with a sonnet upgrade this means os 9 thats what im after atm.

Special Notes for OS 9 users:

Pro Tools 5.0 or higher and DAE/DSI 5.0 or higher are required with Mac OS 9.0 or higher.
The Digidesign Control Panel requires OS 9.0 or higher
When using Digidesign Control Panel, turn off Platinum Sounds in the Appearance Control Panel
Firmware v1.1 required for Blue & White G3 computers running OS 9.0 or higher. Available from Apple at: http://www.info.apple.com/kbnum/n58374

so the goal is hacking (or better finding the "NuBus Care Package") the DAE/DSI v3.4.2 to run PT5.0.1 off a PTIII nubus rig then run it on...

Pro Tools 5.0.1 and Pro Tools FREE will only work with Mac OS v8.6 & v9.x

http://archive.digidesign.com/compato/os9/sw/macos501.html

it is common knowledge that digidesign did not test half the combinations that were possible and wanted people to upgrade

[smilesdavis]

please?

flux of 2.8 & 2.8.2 update attached, cant find 2.8.3 update
looking for flux of 2.6 (ships with DSI 2.4) (Aug 26, 1993) - last version with sampler support menus (for individual samplers))

[smilesdavis]

i´ve made a screenshot of my archives long ago after your PM but i have yet to copy the files off the CDs.

as far i would answer this question there is nothing for SDII which would not also exist for later platforms.

please copy those files for us

[smilesdavis]

still hoping this gets posted eventually or PMd

my 8100 is 500mhz G3 atm, still looking for the G4 500mhz sonnet card

[ivanshpak]

still hoping this gets posted eventually or PMd

my 8100 is 500mhz G3 atm, still looking for the G4 500mhz sonnet card

I'm really looking forward to it too

And by the way, Sound Designer ii does not work with the Sonnet CPU upgrade

[ssp3]

Both of you, guys, won't get very far with this, if you don't keep your own promises. You know what I'm talking about