upgrading a Macintosh SE to 4mb

[part12studios]

I got my hands on a working SE, but it has no keyboard (working on that with local guy) but i have a mouse.  I'm pretty sure the unit likely only has 1mb of ram and i'd like to max it out with 4mb (mo powah!) but i was looking at this and it says something about needing some jumper:

https://everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_classic/specs/mac_se.html

Standard RAM:   1 MB, 2 MB   Maximum RAM:   4 MB*
Details:   *One lead of the 256k resistor must be clipped to use 1 MB SIMMs and support 4 MB of RAM.

has anyone done this modification before?  just don't want to mess it up but am willing to perform operation if it's not too scary and if it is i'll have a local electronics guy i know do the work for a fair price. 


now about maxing this bad boy out:

y understanding is that i read it uses 150ns ram..  but then i saw this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4MB-4pcs-per-lot-1MB-30pin-SIMM-80ns-RAM-4MB-Memory-Apple-Macintosh/391557158565?hash=item5b2aa016a5:g:7LAAAOSwknJX1HF~:sc:USPSFirstClass!02368!US!-1

which is 80ns ram, but the price is right and no luck finding 150ns ram except sets of 4 256kb ram (which is likely what i have anyway).  I'll know more about the unit tonight when i hook my mouse up too it. 


Thanks,
Caleb

[part12studios]

I have confirmed that it has 1mb of ram so I'd love to see about maxing it out.  150ns 4 simm slots.  +

Also the floppy drive has an issue.. it seems like the little spinner that should catch the disk and therefore spin it isn't catching.. you hear a "click click click click" and the speed of the clicking varies (i believe these were variable speed disk drives back then which is why they are not easy to emulate with modern floppy drives..  maybe worn out or misaligned.  so I'm curious about replacing / repairing that as well.. 

[Philgood]

I don't have any real experience on this machines (floppy included)but it sounds to me that a gear inside could have broken.

Look JDW on youtube. He is very knowledgeable and his videos are great.

https://www.youtube.com/user/JDW26

[Bolkonskij]

hey part12studios,

congrats on the SE. I've got one as well and I love it. Mine has 4MB which makes it so much more comfortable to use. (only downside is that sometimes shaky screen, but I heard they were like that even when factory new. Well and the fan noise can be aggravating in a quiet environment)

Which Mac SE do you have? I have a FDHD and I'm pretty confident I did not need to care about resistors. But then I know there are various versions of the SE. For example, while I would just pop in a PRAM battery into my SE, I know earlier ones needed it to be soldered in. Also make sure you add only identical RAM in all slots. Anyhow, I can't remember adding RAM being difficult. (except getting those extra-deep screws out from the back of the machine!)

On a side-note, if you're disassembling your SE, would you take a picture of the screws on the backside? I didn't pay attention, so mine got lost in a big pile of screws ... if it is not asking too much :-)

My floppy drive also did not work (click click click and wanting to initialize every floppy) when I got the machine. Solution was to take the floppy out and clean the drive head. Be super-careful not to bend it too much. After that it worked perfectly again. If you keep the dust off, those drives are very sturdy ones. I'd try cleaning before getting a new one.

And about the RAM. I think you can get the faster RAM but it will simply not use its full potential. If I'm not completly wrong (it has been years) I have 120ns ones in mine and it works flawlessly.

[part12studios]

Thanks for the tips on JDW. i will check it out. 

i just ordered this fella.  i owned a mac classic that had a similar tool..  because right now i can't get into it to see anything
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Opening-Hex-Tool-Macintosh-Classic-Computers-128k-512k-Plus-SE-Classic/193527736144?hash=item2d0f26e750:g:uR0AAOSwmh9e37zq

ok cool about the resistor.  i will know more once i open it up.  Does anyone know a good place to find this particular ram?  i just wonder if faster nanosecond ram will be ok.. i imagine not just like clock speeds matter to later computers, but i'm hoping maybe i'm wrong in the case of NS ram..  like as long as the ram isn't slower.. maybe it's ok. 

I haven't had it complain about time / battery so far, but honestly i forgot to try and set the clock and see if it stuck when i tinkered with it last night. 

I get a ASD keyboard soon, but probably not soon enough.  likely next week. 

Yes I can definitely do that for ya.  PM me a follow up just in case it slips my mind.  i'm putting a task on my todo though now so should be ok

Man sounds like you know exactly what i am experiencing..  yea it feels like it definitely WANTS to work.. but yea same issue..  click click click..  "initialize?"    Once i get it open i might ask more about the particulars of what you did.   I'm definitely not wanting to replace it if i can fix it. 

Ok that's reassuring to hear NS ram might not matter..  i'm inclined to agree with you..  and the ram is cheap on ebay so i'm willing to give it a try  (for science!)

Thanks,
Caleb

[part12studios]

this is the ram i'm talking about getting:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4MB-4pcs-per-lot-1MB-30pin-SIMM-80ns-RAM-4MB-Memory-Apple-Macintosh/391557158565?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144

[part12studios]

Also how would I know exactly which model

I believe the model number on the back of the machine was 5011

[Syntho]

I would love to have an oldschool Mac as a midi machine. I don't know much about Macs pre-1996 or so though. Are there any cheaper ones from the 80s or early 90s that can run midi fine? I wonder how good/fast of a machine you need so that midi runs stably and solidly.

[part12studios]

yea it s a 5011.  which has a 8mhz 68000.. i had a mac classic which seemed to be about the same specs / vibe.. in fact i can't really see a difference between them at all.. 

I can tell you that the 68000 cpu is the same as what was in the Amiga 500.. but the A500 had a ton of graphics and sound chips where the Mac was pretty much entirely driven by the CPU which sucks..

I'd say an SE/30 would be much more what you'd want.  I am going to hook up a serial midi interface to this and see what i can do with it..  but based on my previous classic experience, it's anything but snappy.. 

I'm going to hopefully get the floppy working again and clean up the unit.  seeing if my wife is ok with us making a 30min out of the way stop to get the keyboard

Depending how much I like this thing, I might replace the HDD with a SCSI to SD adapter and basically make it solid state.  I'm at least pleased that the screen is healthy. 

[Syntho]

I keep my computers out of the studio room and use extension cables. That won't be possible with an all-in-one machine like the SE/30. How loud are those things?

[part12studios]

if you put an SSD in it.. f'n whisper..   i'm not even sure if these things have fans..  i know the A500 didn't and it had a ton more hardware and power under the hood..

[ssp3]

I would love to have an oldschool Mac as a midi machine. I don't know much about Macs pre-1996 or so though. Are there any cheaper ones from the 80s or early 90s that can run midi fine? I wonder how good/fast of a machine you need so that midi runs stably and solidly.

My most stable (and compact) "Almost Atari 1040 like timing" Mac for MIDI only was/is Quadra 605 aka LC475 (68k, 25MHz) overclocked to 40MHz (with full 40Mhz processor) running Cubase 3.01 (non audio version). For faster screen redraws display could be switched to B&W. The late friend of mine who was very successive dance music producer claimed at a time that using MROS instead of OMS and simpler MIDI interfaces produced even tighter timing. If size doesn't matter, then Quadra 650 or 840 also will do. The faster model, the better. Power Macs were a bit "whacky" when it comes to MIDI timing, but this is very subjective and with non House/Techno style music it might be unnoticeable..

P.S. Overclocking Q605 to 40MHz is not easy, but could be done, despite what "internet experts" say.

[Syntho]

Why are they whacky? Is it because a lot of the code was made for 68k CPUs and then when PPC took over, the PPC had trouble translating everything in a timely manner? I believe I read long ago that when the early PPC models came out, things were indeed a little bit whacky and not as fast as native 68k CPUs. And that in time, the translation they were doing of 68k code started to outperform native 68k.

[part12studios]

probably just as software got more complicated and transitioning to new hardware introduced opportunities for software to choke and maybe stall and being that MIDI is so heavily reliant on realtime data that cannot be interrupted that might be where it inherited a "whacky"

I know that I had experienced some lag at times (subtle, but i could feel it was there) even with my G4 using usb 1.1 midi interfaces..   which is why i wanted to see how a keyspan pro would behave.. 

[Syntho]

I think I need to leave my 9600 machine alone and only use it for Pro Tools. I use midi on it more than anything, so maybe it'll save it some life by having a dedicated midi machine elsewhere. Not sure which one to get for it but I'll take a look at the ones recommended here.

[Syntho]

By the way... are these old Macs capable of playing back a 2 track wav file? Sometimes I put a Sound Designer or Wav file into some software and edit midi along with it. Even my 9600 has a wee bit of trouble doing it, but it's more about stopping and starting the song really fast.

[part12studios]

so these things have simple sound out on the back.  not even sure it's stereo, but i'll take a guess that it is..  no audio in options. 

I haven't peeked inside but i feel like maybe it has some kind of card slot inside to hold something, yea ok googling i see its the PDS slot, but few options out there.  There was an 020 accelerator but that's likely rare / rooster teeth status.

I'm looking to sneaker net things with a zip drive if I can get it to recognize a zip disk drive (SCSI).. since my floppy is bad..  but i'm hopeful I can repair the issue it has. 

My goal is to make it my turbo synth...   i need to find a small serial midi interface..  but not till i know i can successfully install software.. 

anyway just hoping installing software from scsi delivered stuff will fly..   hoping newer macs can read/write in a format the older macs can read..   i tried some of this when i was a little less experienced with OS9 / mac stuff and had pretty piss poor results when i tried to bring things over to my mac classic via floppy.  seemed like files got kinda stripped of hex data or something making the files unreadable by the classic..   we'll see, probably sometime this weekend.

won't be getting my SE hex tool and ram till sometime next week. 

[SDG]

I'm looking to sneaker net things with a zip drive if I can get it to recognize a zip disk drive (SCSI).. since my floppy is bad..  but i'm hopeful I can repair the issue it has. 

From my personal experience they will happily boot from Zip and Jaz drives. You need Zip driver v4.2 for Zip and 4.3 for Jaz. Make sure the Zip disk is formatted with that driver and not one any later. Even putting the disk in a Mac with a later driver will overwrite the driver rendering it unbootable attached to a MacSE.

https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/iomega-zip-install-disk-v42

Fun fact: even though the SE shipped with System 4, System 3.3 will run on it if you really want to go retro.

As for the drives, they seize up with age. Just follow any online guide to take them apart carefully. Clean  all the filth inside with a cotton bud and IPA and regrease very lightly with some lithium grease and they will be as good as new. Watch for the springs. They can shoot off on dismantling.

[part12studios]

that sucks since my floppy is bad.. scsi is the only thing (i hope) works..   would a SCSI HDD work without drivers?  i could upload the zip drives onto a scsi drive and copy it over that way if that's the case.  seeing how tonight plays out.. maybe work on it tonight.. definitely this weekend. 

[ssp3]

I think I need to leave my 9600 machine alone and only use it for Pro Tools. I use midi on it more than anything, so maybe it'll save it some life by having a dedicated midi machine elsewhere. Not sure which one to get for it but I'll take a look at the ones recommended here.

Syntho,
As I said, the differences in timing are barely noticeable, if at all. You might be better off by continuing using your 9600, unless you're anal about MIDI timing