PCR-A30 - any midi input is causing instant crashes

[joeyvfx]

Hey everyone! I recently got a PCR-A30 to use with Cubase VST 5.0. I installed OMS and the drivers for the PCR, following the manual's setup instructions for OMS. (https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/PCR-A30_OM.pdf)

However, any midi input - dials, knobs, keys - will instantly cause an error to be thrown up and my cursor to freeze. When I try to "Test Studio" within OMS Setup, the moment I move a knob, it unexpectedly quits & freezes my system, with the error message "an error of type 1 occurred." In Cubase, I get the "ReWireDLL.CPP (994) : VERIFY failure" error.

I tried installing an older version of OMS, no luck there. Same behavior.

The PCR-A30 works fine for midi on my modern machine in Logic Pro X. Also, I'm able to use the ASIO drivers in Cubase (on OS 9) for outputting audio without any crashes or issues. So I know that it works, it's just not liking something in my OS 9 setup.

Where should I go from here? I've done a lot of googling & searching on these forums, but I haven't found a solution yet. Has anyone here had an issue like this before? I'd appreciate any help on this. Thanks!

[teroyk]

Do you use it with USB power or AC adapter?

[joeyvfx]

I tried both, it does the same thing switched either way oddly enough.

[GaryN]

Hey everyone! I recently got a PCR-A30 to use with Cubase VST 5.0. I installed OMS and the drivers for the PCR, following the manual's setup instructions for OMS. (https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/PCR-A30_OM.pdf)

However, any midi input - dials, knobs, keys - will instantly cause an error to be thrown up and my cursor to freeze. When I try to "Test Studio" within OMS Setup, the moment I move a knob, it unexpectedly quits & freezes my system, with the error message "an error of type 1 occurred." In

1) So, you should have OMS 2.5.8 installed. If you run "Test Studio" without the PCR plugged in, does it crash? If no, goto #2… If yes, goto A
2) If you run "Test Studio" with the PCR plugged in and Cubase OFF - as in NOT launched at all, does it crash? If no, goto #3… If yes goto B
3) If you now launch Cubase and try again, does it crash? If yes, goto C
4) Are you using any other MIDI devices simultaneously? if yes, goto D
5) Did you follow Roland’s instructions using their OMS setup on Pg 29 of the manual? If NO. Do it…If yes then ?

A) Something's wrong that has nothing to do with the PCR itself, although it MAY be the PCR driver
B) Look for an "echo" or similar setting on the PCR
C) Look for (I don't know exactly what it's called) "keyboard echo" "keyboard thru" - a setting that causes keyboard input to echo right back out to where it came from like to record AND sound a synth. If it's ON shut it OFF - there's a feedback loop happening.
D) Make settings as described in the Driver E (Mac OS9) folder on the CD-ROM

So, I actually read the damn manual and what can I say…… They have set this “thing” up to be everything to everybody. It’s a keyboard that masquerades as a USB MIDI Host AND audio interface too.
The “Input / Output Devices” on Pg make little or no sense -it’s a trial and error mess.

You should read this: https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=200373
That’s a PoorTools problem with the same error you have They blame it on outdated plugins because …… It’s a different situation BUT
DID you previously have PT on your machine? If YES, have you killed all of the extensions and trash PT deposits all over the HDD?

If you get thru all of this without a solution, holler back and I'll think of something else to try.

[joeyvfx]

Thanks for taking the time to reply! Alright, I walked through these, here's what I got:

1) I have OMS 2.3.8, not 2.5.8. I'm assuming that was a typo, correct me if I'm wrong! It doesn't crash when I run "Test Studio" without the PCR plugged in.
2) Fresh boot, Cubase isn't running... PCR on & plugged in... I run "Test Studio"... As soon as I tap a key, instant crash!

I looked through the manual, searching for possibly relevant keywords like "thru" "loop" and "feedback" - no luck there. I'm not seeing anything related to midi feedback issues, only audio interface feedback & some things relating to software midi thru, from what I can tell. Just to clarify, the only cables plugged into the PCR are the USB cable and the AC adapter. No actual midi cables or instruments are plugged into the midi ports of the PCR.

I never installed Pro Tools on this machine, so it shouldn't be that. However, I did try disabling the ReWire extension altogether, which turned the cubase rewire 994 error into the "an error of type 1 occurred" error, which is what I get from OMS when running "Test Studio."

I guess that would narrow it down to just two suspects - the keyboard/its drivers, and OMS.

Also, I did try resetting the keyboard & a few different USB cables. No luck there.

This is an odd product, huh? I was really intrigued by the midi controller/audio interface combo concept, haha! Never seen anything like it before. The only place it was mentioned on these forums was in this post from supernova777: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=67.0
I just assumed it would work fine since there are OS 9 drivers for it. Hmmm.

[GaryN]

You're right. It's was a typo (a mental one…) It's OMS 2.3.8

This is a head scratcher. It sounds like the PCR is outputting something that the Mac OS can't deal with.
Clearly, the PCR "wants" a USB host arrangement as on newer computers. BUT:
One would think (yes I know, that's just a synonym for "assume") that the Roland-provided " OS9 driver" would account for that.

I DO find the Roland Studio setup file to be curious. I'll reiterate again: You DO have the Roland setup file Open and Current in OMS… right?
I find the three separate OMS "feeds" to/from the PCR to be unique/weird. I've never seen anything else like that anywhere.
The "PCR-A MIDI In-Out" appears to be only for additional MIDI devices you may have connected to the PCR's MIDI jacks.
The other "Two" appear to exist in software only or in the minds of the geniuses who…… never mind

Anyway…
Some notes: Pg. 27: "*If you install OMS or FreeMIDI after installing the PCR-A driver, you must install the PCR-A driver once again."  Did that happen?
Check to make sure:
F8 clock is OFF Pg 83
V-Link is OFF
Also:
Try with USB audio OFF
Try switching MIDI drivers Pg 83

Finally, you said: "2) Fresh boot, Cubase isn't running... PCR on & plugged in... I run "Test Studio"... As soon as I tap a key, instant crash!"
Do you mean it passed the "test studio" run and then crashed when you hit a key on the PCR or crashed on "test studio"?

The pre-OSX "Type 1" error means The computer tried to access memory that doesn't exist. a sort of overrun. Which reminds me…

What model Mac is this and how much RAM is installed? Assuming you're not trying to run with little or no RAM,

Try slightly INcreasing or even DEcreasing the RAM allocated to OMS as shown in the Finder OMS "Get Info" window maybe you'll get lucky

Holla back

[joeyvfx]

Yes, the OMS setup from Roland is open & current in OMS. To reiterate: when I turn on "Test Studio" in OMS, nothing happens until I hit a key, then the whole system freezes with an error.

I actually did install OMS after installing the PCR driver, so I went ahead & reinstalled the PCR driver. Now I'm getting either errors of type 1 and type 2, but it's seemingly random which one pops up.

Tried turning the clock off on the keyboard, no change. V-Link is off. Tried turning off USB audio, restarted the keyboard, no change. Tried switching MIDI drivers, but OS 9 popped up a message saying it couldn't recognize it when I did that.

I also fiddled with OMS's RAM allocation settings, bringing the amounts up & down a few times, no change. Although I guess I should've clarified my hardware earlier! I'm running this all on an iMac G3 with the maximum 512MB of RAM. I know, not optimal for audio, but I have a G4 mini on the way, so maybe it'll behave differently with that? I sure hope it will.

I did try something new though. I plugged the MIDI output from my keystep into the input port on the PCR, and for the first time, MIDI was actually being sent through when I ran "Test Studio" in OMS! No crashing! So that's exciting. For some reason I couldn't get MIDI sent through to my VSTs in Cubase, even after re-enabling some things I had disabled while troubleshooting. I might just doing something wrong though - I'm still fairly new to OS 9 & Cubase.

So, external MIDI seems to work, but MIDI from the PCR itself crashes everything. I'm really hoping that it just acts weird on this iMac and it'll work once I get the G4 mini. I'm willing to keep pushing though... should I look into FreeMIDI at all? Is that an alternative to OMS?

[GaryN]

I guess I should've clarified my hardware earlier! I'm running this all on an iMac G3 with the maximum 512MB of RAM. I know, not optimal for audio, but I have a G4 mini on the way, so maybe it'll behave differently with that? I sure hope it will.

A Life Saver Mac? Hoo boy…  I have one more thing to try, if it all fails then you should probably wait for your "new" Mac.
Yes, the iMac should work theoretically and I should still have a great head of hair too. Things don't always "work" as the are supposed to…
Let's skip the "test studio" routine for the moment. Try this:

Open the OMS Studio Setup.
Verify the channel the PCR is on by double-clicking the icons. Correct if necessary.
Click the little solid arrows between the number squares and the PCR icons to turn them OFF.
Close OMS.
Open Cubase.
Verify that IT sees the PCR on the correct channel as well.
Confirm "keyboard thru" or "echo" or whatever it is they call it is OFF.
Hit some keys on the PCR. See what happens.
If it crashes, go find a large hammer and correct the problem.
If it doesn't, open OMS Setup again.
"Reconnect" just the #2 arrow FROM the PCR TO the computer.
Save the setup and close OMS.
Go back to Cubase hit a key and see… If no crash, do you get MIDI to Cubase?

Rinse and repeat with the #3 arrow, then #1, then if no crash, add the #2 opposite direction arrow - skip #3 since they don't have it on to begin with.
Tell me what happens with each configuration.

[DieHard]

I know it will work as a legacy controller if you by a cheap OS9 compatible MIDI interface and use the MIDI I/Out
https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/PCR-A30_OM.pdf

I have used many Rolland controllers (A200,A300,etc.) and avoided the USB in all together in OS9, as I have also had issues with USB MIDI in OS9.

Leave the USB disconnected, use the AC Power, and the MIDI In/Out and all knobs and dials will map out without issue.

[GaryN]

Leave the USB disconnected, use the AC Power, and the MIDI In/Out and all knobs and dials will map out without issue.

That would seem to be true… but being an all-in-one-everything-to-everybody combination controller, MIDI interface, audio interface and universal ball-scratcher is the point of buying the damn thing to begin with.
The fact that they actually wrote and provided OS9 drivers and even a special OMS config makes you think that at least once, in a tiny lab somewhere in Japan, they actually managed to make it work, so maybe you can too……

[joeyvfx]

Yeah, I think I'm gonna have to wait for the G4 mini to show up before I can progress with this. Nothing I'm trying is making this thing work. Not even the large hammer!

[DieHard]

but being an all-in-one-everything-to-everybody combination controller, MIDI interface, audio interface and universal ball-scratcher is the point of buying the damn thing to begin with.

universal ball-scratcher... Dammit Gary, time to clean my screen again, coffee spit out as usual, you really missed your comedic calling.

One last note, obviously programming the "ball-scratching" algorithm in OMS and Mac OS9, is much harder than in OS X

[GaryN]

One last note, obviously programming the "ball-scratching" algorithm in OMS and Mac OS9, is much harder than in OS X

Of course. It is yet again, the lack of pre-emptive multitasking…

[joeyvfx]

Oh boy. So the Mac mini arrived... I might need to source a powermac G4 instead, lol. I'm running into quite a few different problems now, with Cubase, MIDI & other stuff. It's hard to say whether they're due to the hackiness of the mini, or due to the PCR. I've also ordered an Opcode MIDIPort 32 in case I wanna give up on the PCR.

[GaryN]

Oh boy. So the Mac mini arrived... I might need to source a powermac G4 instead, lol. I'm running into quite a few different problems now, with Cubase, MIDI & other stuff. It's hard to say whether they're due to the hackiness of the mini, or due to the PCR. I've also ordered an Opcode MIDIPort 32 in case I wanna give up on the PCR.

Oww… You know OS9 on the mini is a work in progress at best. I see now you mentioned this before but I paid less attention to it than maybe I should have. If you do get it to load and run all that stuff, you will be a true pioneer…

If (when?) it doesn't work and you're tired of trying to hack it, if you really want to make music, find either a Quicksilver or an MDD. They take up more space but at least they'll work when you turn them on.

Congratulations on finding a MIDIport 32. They're scarce as the proverbial hen's teeth.

[joeyvfx]

It's great that the mini can run OS 9 at all! Luckily i've got a lead on a MDD model. Not sure which cpu/config it is, but I'm assuming any of the MDD models should work fine in OS 9. And I didn't realize how lucky I was to find that MIDIport at a decent price!

[GaryN]

Any MDD will boot OS9. However, the "Firewire 800" model (Jan - Jun 2003) will require the special OS we have but no serious issues otherwise.

[refinery]

yeah nice find. really *any* opcode USB device is somewhat rare, they did not get many out the door before Gibson shredded the company. which is a damn shame because at the time SVP really was ahead of the game in many respects.

[joeyvfx]

I got the MDD! To my surprise it's the dual 1.25 GHz variant. (non firewire 800) Pretty rad. One caveat though - the whole thing reeks of cigarette smoke. It's omnipresent and pretty awful. So it might be a few days until I report back since I know I'll want to detoxify it before actually using it.

[GaryN]

That sucks! Talk about a mixed blessing! The dual 1.25 is perfect. The "windtunnel" design means that tobacco tar has been deposited throughout the damn thing from front to back. Even worse, there are air channels between the outer poly skin and the steel underneath. You may have to take those apart too.

At least it's all hard surfaces and it will clean up… eventually.