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[(S)ATAman]

Silicon Image 3112 / 3114  9.0.0b4 driver benchmarks, screenshots. The driver itself can be downloaded here:

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5533.0.html

It is a quite advanced "beta", what remains on the PowerPC is the Jaguar compatibility (currently Tiger or later), some cosmetics and checking the flash ROM functionality. On the Intel side ("Hackintosh") I have to wait until good bridge cards and a power supply arrive.

What you see on the picture is the 3112. The 3114 is much slower, in particular on writes. The fastest speed I was able to achieve on 3114 was 95 o reads and merely 63 on writes (single Samsung 940 SSD, like on the images).

I would NOT recommend 3114 for anything, that card really sux - except if you have slower older SATA drives or if you need to use more, than two drives. This explains, why there wasn't any FirmTek-branded 3114 ever, even that 3112 and 3114 are closely related.
Back than all my complains and requests to Silicon Image were unanswered.

Of course, they already worked on 3124. That card does about 190 on reads and 150 on writes.
It is a shame, the Chinese manufacturers try to force 3114 instead of 3124 down to the throat of the "retro" buyers on eBay.

Why? No Win-10 drivers for 3124? Heck, write one! All 3124 is open source. 3114 sux so much, it's just a shame.

[Philgood]

Thanks so much for that. Really appreciate it.

[BondiBeige]

Hey (S)ATAman,

Thanks for your long hard work through the virus and everything! That's dedication...

I have a G4 Quicksilver and have been wanting to get a SATA card for it for years but at that time in the past when I was looking the only thing available were used SONNET cards etc that were several hundred dollars.

I started searching again yesterday and came across a post on macrumors that linked to some posts here and have read all of the relevant ones.

Ironically I discovered those cheap SATA PCI cards from China on eBay before that but thought there would be no way to get them to work.

Anyway from what I've read, one of those cheap Sil3112 cards should work with a bit of tinkering...

I noticed a link on this forum to the Italian guy's eBay listing for what seems to be an identical card to the cheap Chinese ones:

https://www.ebay.it/itm/2-Port-SATA-PCI-Controller-Card-Apple-Macintosh-PowerMac-G3-G4-G5-SSD-OSX-OS-9/264403383346?hash=item3d8fab7432:g:7csAAOSwgYpdMbyJ

He claims not only the coveted QuickSilver support but also Mac OS 9 support... In a comparison of his card to the stock eBay one, the only differences seem to be the ROM, which seems neatly socketed (read about it being tricky) and also a bridge between two resistors near the upper right voltage regulator...

If that's all that's required plus a firmware flash seems possible?

Anyway thanks for your work on this!

[(S)ATAman]

Hey (S)ATAman,

Thanks for your long hard work through the virus and everything! That's dedication...

I have a G4 Quicksilver and have been wanting to get a SATA card for it for years but at that time in the past when I was looking the only thing available were used SONNET cards etc that were several hundred dollars.

I started searching again yesterday and came across a post on macrumors that linked to some posts here and have read all of the relevant ones.

Ironically I discovered those cheap SATA PCI cards from China on eBay before that but thought there would be no way to get them to work.

Anyway from what I've read, one of those cheap Sil3112 cards should work with a bit of tinkering...

I noticed a link on this forum to the Italian guy's eBay listing for what seems to be an identical card to the cheap Chinese ones:

https://www.ebay.it/itm/2-Port-SATA-PCI-Controller-Card-Apple-Macintosh-PowerMac-G3-G4-G5-SSD-OSX-OS-9/264403383346?hash=item3d8fab7432:g:7csAAOSwgYpdMbyJ

He claims not only the coveted QuickSilver support but also Mac OS 9 support... In a comparison of his card to the stock eBay one, the only differences seem to be the ROM, which seems neatly socketed (read about it being tricky) and also a bridge between two resistors near the upper right voltage regulator...

If that's all that's required plus a firmware flash seems possible?

Anyway thanks for your work on this!

The card is an unauthorized, for-business THEFT of my IP. The guy from HK should be suspended. I warned eBay a few times.
Once more - and I will file a lawsuit in Santa Clara county against eBay.

The Micrel resistor is a must for Quicksilver on any 3112 / 3114 / 3512 PCI card. This allows QS to wake up from the sleep - it is far more important, than the ROM because the ROM is going to be updated on any card soon, the new driver is not tied to the ROM.
However, the new driver is given away for free - but explicitly for non-resale and the non-resale condition is embedded in the driver (will show up).

So people can use it as much as they want - but no one on eBay should make extra money from the free driver.


There will be one exception: the 6-port and the 4-port controller sold very cheap on eBay with multiple Silicon Image 3112 or 3512 chips.
For these controllers I probably want to make money, so the "regular" Silicon Image driver won't work.
The less common ones (sold by LSI) already work. The more common ones (labeled by Adaptec) still have problem.
But neither will be stand-alone bootable, only with a "daughter card" or just no-bootable.

More about these cards later, currently at beta-8 stage for "X".

[BondiBeige]

I'm not sure if I understand? You mean the Italian guy is Chinese? Or the cards the Italian guy is using from China are IP theft?

Yeah if I manage to get a card I'll get a Micrel resistor for it.

You should try to protect your work for the Sil3112 somehow because there will be nothing stopping anyone from reselling modded cards.

Good luck with your Beta!

[(S)ATAman]

I'm not sure if I understand? You mean the Italian guy is Chinese? Or the cards the Italian guy is using from China are IP theft?

Yeah if I manage to get a card I'll get a Micrel resistor for it.

You should try to protect your work for the Sil3112 somehow because there will be nothing stopping anyone from reselling modded cards.

Good luck with your Beta!

Hi - every single card which supports macOS 9 is a knock-off, except (formally) ACard.
(Formally - because they wrote the code, while stealing "just" the idea. That is normal over there, and indeed, they added a lot of work later on.)

There wasn't a macOS-9 driver made by anyone else, only myself and ACard. I am afraid, that won't change soon. 

The Italian guy just buys the knock-off from Hong Kong and installs the Micrel regulator by hand.
I am still not sure, why any manufacturer would not use the Micrel regulator from the begin on - but that's the way it is.

In any case I don't think that the performance of these cards does deserve a copy-protection anymore.
Also, selling occasionally is fine. Selling for business is not. This is why the new driver will state explicitly: it is not for re-sale.

[IIO]

creative commons noncommercial.

[(S)ATAman]

creative commons noncommercial.

Well, I am open to any text anyone feels proper.

Fighting with Jaguar - Panther - Tiger at this moment, there is a long outstanding bug in the ATA storage driver (Apple did re-write it for Leopard... Catalina).
That bug causes the ATA / SATA channel being blocked if the controller driver immediately returns the result.

I.e.

- I get the driver identify anyway (internally), no matter what Apple ATA storage driver does.
- I also set the drive speeds and workarounds according the published quirks (good pastime to read FreeBSD or Linux code and see, what kind of drives misbehave).
- Hence, at the time Apple ATA storage driver "sees" the drive, everything is already done... and it may set the requests improperly.

Under Leopard (PPC / Intel) up to Catalina I just ignore their requests, telling the mass storage driver "I am fine, thank you".
For Drive Identify 0xEC or 0xA1 command I just copy the internally cached 512 bytes to the buffer Apple provides and return.

This is also necessary for "virtual" drives which aren't drives (port multipliers, for instance).

Pre-Leopard situation: Apple expects the request formally finish first, that get the result in the call-back.
They wanted to optimize the mass storage code... which is actually over-engineered with callbacks over callbacks.

The earlier solutions are without result caching, that started to be implemented in SeriTek / 2SE-2 first, than with 2ME4 and so on.
These cards were rarely if ever used in pre-Leopard environment, now everything will be like that, so I have to "schedule" a call-back routine for these old OS-es. Kind of pain in the neck... and playing with eon-old versions of Xcode is not fun either.

I guess, it will be done in 2-3 days but now it's 4:43AM on the "other" side of the Rhine and I am living on espresso infusions.

[IIO]

soon the border will be open again and the side your are on wont matter as much as the rhine itself.

[SDG]

I noticed a link on this forum to the Italian guy's eBay listing for what seems to be an identical card to the cheap Chinese ones:

https://www.ebay.it/itm/2-Port-SATA-PCI-Controller-Card-Apple-Macintosh-PowerMac-G3-G4-G5-SSD-OSX-OS-9/264403383346?hash=item3d8fab7432:g:7csAAOSwgYpdMbyJ

There is no Italian guy judging from that link. Shipping is from HK and the listing is in English but just autotranslated for eBay.it. I also don't see any socketed bios or added resistor in that stock photo used in the listing. Is that the right link?

As for getting the listing removed, the HK guy could always claim that he is providing a service in adapting the cards and that he isn't charging for the firmware. There are enough people who might be interested but won't get out a soldering iron to do the adaptation. The other issue is getting hold of 3112 cards. After the past few years of drought, a few 3112 cards have made it back onto eBay and the 3114 cards are becoming a little scarcer but most of the 3112 cards are coming from China. HK guy could just commandeer the lot and corner the market if he wanted to.

It's annoying but you can see why SeriTek put in the copy protection that it did on its cards.

[IIO]

the HK guy could always claim that he is providing a service in adapting the cards and that he isn't charging for the firmware.

it remains a violation of copyright.

die nichtbeachtung der "grundsätze" ist zwar bewusst kein verstoß gegen die AGB, aber mitglieder nicht auszuschließen, die gegen die "grundsätze" verstoßen, wäre mehr als inkonsequent und in krassen fällen beihilfe zu strafbaren handlungen in den meisten ländern.

https://www.ebay.de/help/policies/member-behavior-policies/allgemeine-geschftsbedingungen-fr-die-nutzung-der-deutschen-ebaydienste?id=4259

when you sell software you are obligated to clear the rights (last but not least regarding (re-)selling licenses)

https://www.ebay.de/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/academic-beta-oem-software-policy?id=4288

regarding embedded data it is unfortunately not regulated:

https://www.ebay.de/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/electrical-electronic-equipment-policy?id=4302

[SDG]

regarding embedded data it is unfortunately not regulated:

https://www.ebay.de/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/electrical-electronic-equipment-policy?id=4302

Selbstverständlich. 

People sell computers, interface cards, TVs and all sorts of electrical equipment with firmware on them on eBay. Policing copyright on that would be impossible. Also, he could easily bypass any such complaint by selling cards with no firmware on them and just sending a link to a downloadable firmware flasher although that would deter the less technically minded of his potential clients.

[BondiBeige]

So about the differences between HK/Italy and a stock 3112 card found from a cheap listing (unmodified)

The pictures are low res, but the main differences I can notice are the name on firmware chip, and second a small bit of unshielded metal (wire/resistor leg) soldered between the two resistors just left of the upper right voltage regulator.

Also I don't think HK/Italy replaces the voltage regulator. That soldering of the two pins allows the card to be used with a QS, but doesn't fix sleep/wake AFAIK.

Weird that Italy is the only country that HK guy lists in?

[IIO]

People sell computers, interface cards, TVs and all sorts of electrical equipment with firmware on them on eBay. Policing copyright on that would be impossible.

well, as we can see, it is possible to track it; SATAman also knows how to identify stuff which he wrote or was involved in.

actually i find the worst thing of all that ebay doesnt react. to me that is worse than someone copying your stuff.

the seller might be clueless, he could always at least pretend he would have bought it from a third party. but the right holder will always be able to prove that he is the author - if only somebody would listen to him.

every pirated software website accepts DMCA requests from right holders and acts likewise. ebay doesnt.

otoh youtube blocks you for uploading your own composition claiming it wouldnt be yours, haha.

[SDG]

otoh youtube blocks you for uploading your own composition claiming it wouldnt be yours, haha.

I actually know someone who had his upload blocked because of this. Worse that this, in the UK you have to have a licence to play any recorded music or the radio in a public place, like a shop or a hairdressers etc. The licence fees goes to the artists union, who distributes this pro rata to all affiliated artists based on annual sales. You have to pay even if the only music you play is your own that you composed and recorded. That means that you have to pay Taylor Swift to play your own music on your own premises.

Back to HK seller. Maybe he has spotted a loophole in Italy or has found out that Italy is slow to react to complaints. Probably the latter.

[IIO]

that you have to pay fees for performing your own music is a normal regulation of most collecting societies. if you perform, you dont pay that fee as the composer, you pay it as the organizer.

if you dont like that rule, just dont join one. it is not like you would still need that membership to sell CDs like back in 2000.

the issue with youtube´s automated detection system is that it can not only behave erratic is stuff is similar, it will also not check who you are. so if somebody who stole your work uploads it, and makes a false declaration  that it would be his, then your original is blocked and YOU now have to prove that it is yours, which you can only do by filing a complaint against the other party.

[IIO]

currently i dont even understand how to create a youtube channel or a music.youtube playlist. that shit is so ridicoulous. sometimes i think the only way how to use youtube would be to post a download link for my hotline server.

[BondiBeige]

Hey (S)ATAman,

I’m sure you’re busy with your projects... was just wondering if there was any updates to your projects?

Unfortunately I have bad news... after waiting 2 months for a generic sil3112 card to arrive from China, it arrived today in a tiny crumpled box and when I opened it, it was cleanly snapped in two right along the controller which also fractured so no chance of salvaging it

Anyway the waiting game begins for two more months... thanks again for your work!