Little updates about PCI USB Card

[Mat]

then maybe you use a third party software which does that.
in my machines copying files to the desktop always copy them to the desktop of the same volume.
holding alt is the normal way of copying files, in case you dont know.

I know. And the Desktop is always the desktop of the active boot volume. So if you ALT&Drag&Drop, the file gets copied to the desktop of the boot volume. And no, I am not using any 3rd party software, and it is always the same at all my MAcs. I double checked it right now.

The icon gets moved, and an entry into your disks desktop.db will be crated

okay, now i am sure that we dont use the same operating system.
because in MacOS9 there is an archive called "Desktop Folder" on every disk.
there is also a desktop database, but this has nothing to do with the desktop.
maybe you use OS9 ?

My fault, of course you are right, it is the "Desktop Folder"! And no, I am not using OS9! 

If you like to copy a file from one mass storage to another one and from there to the desktop, drag and drop it to the disk, and klick again and move it to the desktop.

that is exactly what i described above already as best practice - and what you denied because it wouldnt be neccessary.

Where did you get the feeling I denied it? Sorry if I was unprecice somewhere. It is just that copying to the desktop (the desktop folder of the boot drive) works always with ALT. So the way copy to a special disk and than move it to the desktop is only necessary if you like to copy something to a "non boot volume".

[Mat]

If i needed to restart via keyboard, where is the startup key on a common usb keyboard ?

There is none, as long as it is no keyboard for Macs :-(

Sometime the machine doesn't start correctly and the menu bar on top disappear. Without the original keyboard actually i must cut off the power: is there something less bad ?

Try "Comman + ALT + Esc." for quitting the Finder (or the hanging program), sometimes this helps if something went wrong. But you should see if the Finder is the problem, or some System Extension, and solve the issue.
And for a shutdown, you can always hold the power button at the machine for 10 seconds, it should be less bad than pulling the power cord.

[IIO]

To see path, highlight file and Command-R.  (Or File menu/Show Original

yet another collegue who is using another OS9 than i do. in my OS9 command-R does something else.

is there something less bad ?

there is a gazillion of useful and straight forward keyboard commands in the finder. i can operate it almost mouseless.

reboot
command-control-eject

shutdown
command-alt-control-eject

BTW, I am not sure how other Operating Systems solve this? How is Linux showing Icons from different volumes at the desktop, to make it possible to immediatly recognise which disk they are on?

i use win 7 for web and i can tell you it is completly terrible there. an alias just looks like any other file there, except that it has an ugly badge in the icon.

(in OS9 i´ve disabled the badge^^. and in OS7.5 i replaced "alias" with "*" and "copy" with "-" - how cool is that)

what is even more "useful" in windows is that you dont have label colors, custom icons, you can only open apps by lauchning a document when the app is in /programs and that in most places, aliases to files are not active, for example you can not drag-open a file onto an application icon in the task bar. haha. so what is the task baar good for?

[IIO]

So if you ALT&Drag&Drop, the file gets copied to the desktop of the boot volume.

i think you just dont want to see what is his problem with that or where he is coming from.

1. the DRAG action on the desktop is targeting the desktop folder of the boot volume.

2. to copy files using drag between different volumes, you normally do NOT require to hold modifier keys.

3. but if you drag files from your pendrive to your desktop, you only move it to the desktop of the pendrive.

so

a)
even if someone has learned that each volume has its desktop folder, this behaviour seems highly inconsistent to him, because the same action suddenly requires different command and

b)
there is no solution to copy files by only one action to another desktop but the one of the boot drive.

so the price you pay to have the possbility of using the desktop on a volume of choice (unbezahlbar! ) is  that after all using the OS9 desktop happens on a higher abstraction level than in OSX, where you just have to accept that there is only one per user in your user folder - and the rest is completely linear and predictable.

[Mat]

To see path, highlight file and Command-R.  (Or File menu/Show Original

yet another collegue who is using another OS9 than i do. in my OS9 command-R does something else.

I am really wondering, why your Macs are doing different things. See several shortcut-collections which confirm what macarone and I tell about "Command + R" and "ALT + Drag&Drop". I even checked right now it it may be connected to the Mac OS language version. It is not, … see here for example: https://www.finseth.com/parts/mac-keys.php

[IIO]

shutdown with pc keyboard? erm, shouldnt there be an FKEY trap to suitcase which lets you create an "eject" button on a function key?

not sure how to edit the finder directly; i cant find the menu content. this is not enough:

[IIO]

I am really wondering, why your Macs are doing different things.

command-R stands for "reveal" and this opens the location of the original if you apply it on a alias.

since system 6 when i am not wrong, and until today in 10.15.

if on your computer command-R shows you the desktop folder volume the file is in, then you better upload a picture - because otherwise it didnt happen.

[Mat]

So if you ALT&Drag&Drop, the file gets copied to the desktop of the boot volume.

i think you just dont want to see what is his problem with that or where he is coming from.

I think I completely understand the "problem".  Even if I am not sure because ot Angels' Alias-request anymore. Perhaps there are things mixed up. In any case it is no real problem as I think, just a matter of logic.

1. the DRAG action on the desktop is targeting the desktop folder of the boot volume.

2. to copy files using drag between different volumes, you normally do NOT require to hold modifier keys.

3. but if you drag files from your pendrive to your desktop, you only move it to the desktop of the pendrive.

Fine, so we finally agreed upon these behaviours.

a)
even if someone has learned that each volume has its desktop folder, this behaviour seems highly inconsistent to him, because the same action suddenly requires different command and

No, it is not the same action. Copying a file within one volume is something different that copying something to the desktop. So while every volume got its own desktop folder, it is nevertheless important to understand  that there is only one single desktop, and it is always the one of the active boot volume, displaying the sums of all active volumes.

b)
there is no solution to copy files by only one action to another desktop but the one of the boot drive.

so the price you pay to have the possbility of using the desktop on a volume of choice (unbezahlbar! ) is  that after all using the OS9 desktop happens on a higher abstraction level than in OSX, where you just have to accept that there is only one per user in your user folder - and the rest is completely linear and predictable.

No, it is a lower abstraction level, when you get that the desktop is from the active boot volume, but you still have a desktop folder at any volume, be it a floppy, an external HD, a network volume or whatever. It is the perfect illusion of "Icon = file or folder"! Other Operating Systems are driving me crazy with their mixing of representation of files and folders, or "links" inside Windows or whatever, …

[Mat]

command-R stands for "reveal" and this opens the location of the original if you apply it on a alias.

That is exactly what I said above. macarone was a little bit unprecice, but it is 100% what I told. So this case is closed!

[IIO]

No, it is not the same action.

why is it the not the same action? copying a file from one disk to another is the same action. that´s why the user might expect that the same methods are used.

 - when you want to copy diskA/foo.txt into diskA/subfolder/foo.txt you have to ALT-drag.

 - when you want to copy diskA/foo.txt into diskB/foo.txt you can also ALT-drag, but dont have to, you can also just drag.

 - when you want to copy diskA/foo.txt into diskB/Desktop Folder/foo.txt and diskB is where you booted from, you can also just drag.

 - but when you want to copy diskA/foo.txt into diskB/Desktop Folder/foo.txt and diskB is NOT the boot drive, you have to find a workaround for that, because there is no single-action for that.

and now it is getting even worse:

 - when you want to copy diskA/foo.txt into diskB/Desktop Folder/mycoolfolder you can now just drag again.

thats the same shit as with command-N on the desktop: there is no option in the finder how to create a new folder on the desktop of another volume than the boot volume.

this kind of leads - yet not forces - you to mainly use your boot drive for moving around stuff on the desktop.

and there is no real reason why the boot drive is "default". why not alphabetically? why cant i choose which one i want to be in the foreground?

yeah i know, there is a technical reason - the boot drive is ensured to be always available, haha

but where is my personal freedom? if someone mainly wants to use disk17 to move files into, his is confronted with using workarounds of 3 more clicks for each action or use folder scripts or whatnot.

How is Linux showing Icons from different volumes at the desktop, to make it possible to immediatly recognise which disk they are on?

no experience with that. i guess it is very similar to windows, like most things i´ve seen in KDE desktops & co.

Copying a file within one volume is something different that copying something to the desktop.

copying to regular folders in different partitions is copying to a different partition.

copying to different desktop folders in different partitions i also copying to a different partition.

dektop folders are regular archives. the only difference is that they offer this special windows called "the desktop" in addition to the normal finder window.

it is nevertheless important to understand that there is only one single desktop

there we go: you want to the user to understand what apple would like to have. i want the user to freely decide how things look like. that´s why you call it a "single desktop". but the files are not going in t hat metaphoric desktop, they are going on the different volumes. (if you find the right workaround^^)

for me the desktop is only the sum of my 25 desktop folder archives.

No, it is a lower abstraction level

showing a window which shows real paths is a higher abstraction level than a desktop window which shows files which are in different directories?

It is the perfect illusion

and at the same time it is only an illusion?

i give you final quiz to solve now. eventually it will show you the problem (regarding the reception of inconsistence from new users) better.

what is the keyboard command / drag action to make a copy of pendrive/foo.txt to pendrive/Desktop Folder/foo.txt?

you have 15 minutes, then i will ring a bell and you drop your pencils.

[IIO]

what about this.

can you rename a folder using applescript while it remains invisible? will the files immediately disappear from the dekstop if you rename the desktop folder archive?

one could make the desktop icons of a single partition flash on the screen in order to identify them.

or what about moving them up and down for 5 pixels?

(eventually one could also use label colors, but i have no idea how to restore the original status then)

[IIO]

ok lol, i tried using filebuddy.

when you rename disk/Desktop Folder to disk/Desktop Folder2 the original disk/Desktop Folder remains intact but becomes visible.

if you now move the disk/Desktop Folder to the trash in order to get rid of the icons of the files inside temporarily, disk/Desktop Folder2 becomes visible too and contains disk/Desktop Folder2/ Desktop Folder with all your files inside.

at least the icons on the desktop are gone.

but this ist still not what we wanted to do. need someone with applescript witchcraft here.

[Mat]

and at the same time it is only an illusion?

i give you final quiz to solve now. eventually it will show you the problem (regarding the reception of inconsistence from new users) better.
what is the keyboard command / drag action to make a copy of pendrive/foo.txt to pendrive/Desktop Folder/foo.txt?

you have 15 minutes, then i will ring a bell and you drop your pencils.

Drag&Drop to the same folder with subsequently moving out to the desktop. Perhaps I really do not understand you? The only case when I had problems with this desktop behavior was, when I had several volumes at huge desktops, and problems wiht graphiccards and got 640 x 480 resolutions. But in general the idea of 1 desktop, but desktop folders with the content of every volume having files at the active dektop is nevertheless cosistent and logical in my opinion.

[IIO]

Drag&Drop to the same folder with subsequently moving out to the desktop.

i think you could only fail the test because you didnt even try it in practice.

[Mat]

Drag&Drop to the same folder with subsequently moving out to the desktop.

i think you could only fail the test because you didnt even try it in practice.

I think we are facing serious communication problems. Of course I tried before, especially as I named the dektop folder wrong previously. If you are referring to the name addition "Kopie", name it, but don´t get so personal please. If you like to make a copy for the desktop folder of the same drive without any addition, copy it previously to any other folder and move it to the desktop, OR, what is the better way in my opinion, move it to the desktop, and ALT drag&drop it back.

[IIO]

so the correct answer is: you cant do that so easily.

the shortest way is probably to first move it on the dektop, then copy it back to the volume. but even that is weird and a newbie can only find out how it works if he knows how the desktop system technically works. which wasnt exactly the promise.

...

but you know what is even worse than that?

if you have a jpg open in a firefox window in windows 7 and you drag it to the desktop (like you would do on a mac when you want to save the document locally) it only creates a shortlink document.

if you alt-drag it, windows shows the copy badge ("+") - but it still doesnt copy the file; it creates a new file from the content of the image in bmp format.

!"§$%&/()=?

[Angel]

There is none, as long as it is no keyboard for Macs :-(

Somewhere i should have a pc keyboard with power buttons in the area commonly occupied by F13 F14 and F15 but i don't remember if it's a PS/2 or USB one

Try "Comman + ALT + Esc." for quitting the Finder (or the hanging program), sometimes this helps if something went wrong. But you should see if the Finder is the problem, or some System Extension, and solve the issue.
And for a shutdown, you can always hold the power button at the machine for 10 seconds, it should be less bad than pulling the power cord.

The hanging problem seems related to the slow cpu: unstuffing, copying big things (big... more than 100MB) o even trying to read certain PDF (like comics or catalogs) are sufficient reason to set the machine in crisis. Probably i can set better memory's options (it's full upgraded to 768MB) but i havent found the correct measure.
In any case i think, like PS/2 peripherials on PC, the ADB keyboard had got a better priority over USB so keys combinations are heard like interrupts from the firmware stored in rom. The same commands launched from USB keyboard need to be read from all OS stack which is collapsing so it wont respond

It's funny and sad at the same time but i think i need this one in mac's sauce:

[IIO]

The hanging problem seems related to the slow cpu: unstuffing, copying big things (big... more than 100MB) o even trying to read certain PDF

sounds more like faulty RAM or faulty disk cache.

or maybe it is even caused by not using a proper mac keyboard?

[Angel]

The ram is all ok. The hard drive surely is old and almost full (but more 2GB free, how much can pretends ?). Before changing it i want to find a proper ata controller.
In every case i'm pretty sure there is some limit from old world rom which doesn't see directly usb peripherial without a proper usb expansion card. It can be a good idea to try sending special command key with non original usb keyboard on newer green G3 with new world rom.