Author Topic: Little updates about PCI USB Card  (Read 965 times)

Offline Angel

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Little updates about PCI USB Card
« on: May 29, 2020, 05:29:50 PM »
I finally found a compatible PCI USB Card compatible with OS9 and G3 Beige.
There is only one and it is based on NEC D720101GJ Chipset.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/21AAAOSwgoNeWCen/s-l1600.jpg

Any other card will not recognized from Apple System Profiler.
The installation need some extensions:

HIDLibrary 1.5.5
SerialShimLib 1.5.5
USB Device Extension 1.5.5
USB Mass Storage Support 2.1.1
USB Software Locator 1.5.5
USB Support 1.5.5

I think i've recovered them from 9.2.2 update package with TomeViewer.

Some important info.

It's really difficult to find an used card, probably nearly impossible a new one, so you must make a lot of attention to the usb holes status. A deformation of just one millimeter, the hole touches the metal plate with the screw and the entire computer will crash because short circuit. I don't know if this problem is common on all old macs, but i've seen this type of crap many times on beige G3 for various causes. I've resolved insulating the plate with electrician tape and straightening with pliers the holes. I've not yet tested hardware like keyboard, mouse and hub but it will happens soon.

On software side, i've formatted an old 256MB in FAT16 and it worker perfectly but it's small so i've tested anothers bigger. A 16GB pendrive in NTFS wasn't read but the system offered to initialize it in HFS (or HFS+ ? boh, i haven't saw) at the correct size. I don't need a pendrive only for mac so i refused. A strange thing is happening with another pendrive. This one is 4GB in FAT32. At the first insert the system stated something like "rebuilding desktop", taking some time, then opened it. I've moved it on pc, copied on some big sit archives and returned on mac. When I tried to copy these folders on desktop, it moved the folders icons but doesn't copied them so if i remove the pendrive, from desk will disappear the pendrive icon plus these folders. Only workaround found is move the icons on desktop then duplicate them and obviously wait. Why is happening this idiotic thing ?
 
Ah, just to be clear: this is all slow like a hell. Jobs could also be a visionary but saw away the old but fast scsi for this jalopy isn't a good idea. I think he would have to wait at least the second revision.

Offline Angel

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2020, 06:08:40 PM »
Ehm.. no, my error. The duplicate workaround doesn't function: it copied the directory in the same pendrive. Now trying to copy in Macintosh HD

Update:

Not only with the FAT32/4GB but with every pendrive it is impossibile to copy directly on desktop. It is needed a folder where to copy in.
Really really stupid.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 06:53:09 PM by Angel »

Online IIO

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2020, 06:09:12 PM »
which ones didnt work for you? OS 8.6+ should be able to use any firewire & usb host card without the need of any drivers.
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Online IIO

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2020, 06:13:57 PM »
Quote
Why is happening this idiotic thing?

in MacOS9, every partition has its own desktop.

you can love it - or you can hate it. :)

if you want to copy files directly to "the" desktop (in the case of OS9: of your current system boot parition) you cant do it the same way you are used to from OSX or windows.

my personal workaround is to copy the files in the root of the partition. (i.e. drag the stuff from the removable media to the HD icon), then move them if they are for some reason required to be on the desktop.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 06:24:04 PM by IIO »
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Offline Angel

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2020, 07:00:02 PM »
in MacOS9, every partition has its own desktop.

I can understand this thing referred to the trash but it's a nonsense with the desktop. In every case if the pendrive has got an own desktop and i want copy to another desktop of another partition, it must be a simply copy operation from a desktop folder to another one. Straight and simple. Here they have fused two and probably more different things without any reason, an enormous UX design error.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 07:11:31 PM by Angel »

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2020, 09:59:21 PM »
when this was designed, most mac users had 2 disks with 1 partition each. :)

i believe getting data from a pendrive is the only situation where you really could need this (and where it sucks when you accidentially move stuff to the desktop)

and even then you might want to move the stuff from the pendrive to some other disk than the boot partition, and then it doesnt matter. until last year i had more than 40 HDs.

i find copying the data into the root of the destination drive not a big issue. you think a contextmenu where you can choose which desktop to copy to would be simpler?
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Offline Angel

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2020, 05:14:56 AM »
There is a simpler solution: a special icon overlayered on the basic one. For example if you have a PSD file on pendrive and  move it on desktop, the PSD file icon will add something like "USB" in an angle of the bitmap or set a special color palette. If i remember correctly there is already a function for it related to aliases so there wouldn't have been much work to do. The idea should have been "i must recognize the origin of every icon on the fly", basic ux design concept.
What would have happened if there had been a lot of drives ? More than two hard disk, various pendrives, tape units and so on ? A big apples' mess

Online IIO

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2020, 05:49:22 AM »
this would be very user specific and will work only for the combination of your machine with your pendrive.

however, i could imagine such a system using the textcolor of the items name to indicate certain volumes.

there are a few people here who might think it is fun to write such a tool.

...

i am already using different background pictures for different volumes - and i could not work without such gimmicks.


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Offline Mat

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2020, 05:50:33 AM »
basic ux design concept.
What would have happened if there had been a lot of drives ? More than two hard disk, various pendrives, tape units and so on ? A big apples' mess
I like to bring in a complete contrary view of this behavior:
It is perfect user interface design!
Let's remember what Apple killed with switching to X and all the colourful effects. They broke the spacial browser and the idea to create a perfect illusion of what files, folders and programs and especially their icons are. 9s aim is to create the feeling that an "icon" IS the file. And with this behavior they did perfectly follow their logics. If an icon from any other mass storage than the boot drive is dragged to the desktop, and if it "stays" at the original drive this is totally logical, so it is not a mess, but contrary a perfect design. In fact it would be unlogical why a desktop should be connected to the boot drive, and if you put the icon from your stick to the desktop, it should be copied and thus you have immeditly 2 of the same files, ... I know it is a philosophical question, but they did a quite good job back than in staying consistant and logical, and in simplyfiying the abstraction layers of UX designs. That is why I love the spacial browser, and that is why I still think that no other Operating System ever was not able to hold a candle to Mac OS 9!

I for myselve even love this feature, as I can switch on the FW HD and immediatly ge its folders or program icons at the desktop, or as I can arrange my stuff at a stick, go to another computer at any place, and find it as I planned to! That is something completely different than to just "handing over data"!

And finally, If you like to copy stuff from your stick, just hold down the ALT key and it gets copied not the icon moved, simple as that. ;)

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2020, 05:58:52 AM »
i like it too, but i believe that i only like it because i am used to it for some 26 years.

there are a lot af arguments against it, his USB problem is not the only issue.

for example if you are starting to put a lot of picture files on the desktop of disk 5, and the other day you dont have disk 5 mounted but disk 17, where you now want to put a lot of audio files on the desktop, this creates quite a mess when you later for some reason want to mount both disks at the same time.

the ideal design would have been to allow the user to choose between the two systems.
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Offline Mat

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2020, 06:27:55 AM »
the ideal design would have been to allow the user to choose between the two systems.
Holding down one key to copy instead of moving, is exactly what you demand/suggest!

And again, I think that any other behavior would be unlogical! Why should you always move the icons, if you are inside some folders, but when it comes to your desktop switch to copying? That simple stuff is why I love Mac OS 9, and what makes a huge difference! I am still always annoyed when I have to use other Systems.

The mess you are talking about still "makes sense", as it is doing exactly what you told the machine to do. I hate nothing more than computers thinking for me (e.g. closing the program when the last window gets closed, arranging my icons, sorting my files when I like them sorted in MY way, putting stuff to predefined folders automatically, … )

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2020, 06:56:42 AM »

Quote
Holding down one key to copy instead of moving, is exactly what you demand/suggest!

no, not at all. copying the file on the dektop will not copy it into the boot drive (or a driver of your choice), it remains where it was. :)

Quote
Why should you always move the icons, if you are inside some folders, but when it comes to your desktop switch to copying

the desktop is different from finder windows.

there are many desktops, just like every volume has a finder window - but no chance to copy files into them by dragging, because you cant choose another desktop but the one of the boot drive.

Quote
The mess you are talking about still "makes sense", as it is doing exactly what you told the machine to do

making sense or "having an inner logic" is not necessarily the most important property of interface design.

and it is still only subjective. for some people a GUI doesnt make sense at all, and they prefer commandlines and consoles.

however, you ignored the original issue: how to copy a file from an usb stick to the desktop of disk 17?

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Offline Mat

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2020, 07:22:03 AM »

Quote
Holding down one key to copy instead of moving, is exactly what you demand/suggest!

no, not at all. copying the file on the dektop will not copy it into the boot drive (or a driver of your choice), it remains where it was. :)
No, it does not remain! Drag and Drop any file while holding ALT and the file gets copied to the desktop (means copied physically to your boot drive). If you drag and drop without ALT it gets moved and remains at the original mass storage.


there are many desktops, just like every volume has a finder window - but no chance to copy files into them by dragging, because you cant choose another desktop but the one of the boot drive.
There are not many desktops! There is just one desktop, look at your screen, there is just one desktop! ;)
There are different disks, and you can put stuff from your different disks to your one desktop! So if you like to copy a file from any stick to any disk, drag and drop it to the disk (it gets copied). If you like to put any file to the deskotp drag and drop it from the disk you like to the desktop. The icon gets moved, and an entry into your disks desktop.db will be crated, but it still ramains the one and only desktop that you can see (think about my posting above, that you can create a "setup" at dektops at other machines, with every mass storage. It will be this one single other desktop if you put your stick in another computer.
If you like to copy a file from one mass storage to another one and from there to the desktop, drag and drop it to the disk, and klick again and move it to the desktop. That is 2 klicks and one move (with spring loading folders) to perform 2 completely different tasks! Perfect UI design!

Quote
making sense or "having an inner logic" is not necessarily the most important property of interface design.
Oh, it is! But I am discussing this for 20 years now with people who either think that eye candy is most important (an who are thus mixing tools with presentation) or strange physicists and mathematics brains who think, thinking in 3 more abstraction layers and typing commands is a good idea ;)

Quote
however, you ignored the original issue: how to copy a file from an usb stick to the desktop of disk 17?

As said, drag and drop it to the disk, release the mouse button, klick once again, and move it out to the desktop.

Thus you immediatly did what you liked to do, you "saw and used" the disk where your file is now physically, and it takes about 0,5 seconds longer than to copy it to the boot drive (if spring loaded folders is adjusted to quick reaction).
« Last Edit: May 30, 2020, 07:49:04 AM by Mat »

Offline Angel

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2020, 08:18:33 AM »
If the file/directory is the icon and the icon is located in a space defined like a logic representation of a real path, in that representation can be only two type of icons: a real icon/file and a pointer/link to a real icon/file. At least can exist hard and softlink like in windows/linux/os/2 but user must see ever two major types.
Nothing else. The two ones must be distinguishable every time and, no, is not user's task find a suitable a coloured/placing workaround in order to remember who is where.

Returning to hardware side of the life.

USB Mouse (microsoft) works but not 2nd button (must call with CTRL) and scrolling wheel -> resolved with USB Overdrive
Keyboard (trust 5 bucks crap) works but can't find a compatible keymap (looking for italian pc keyboard, something like us keyboard with some buttons replaced)

Actually I still have attached the ADB Keyboard just for power on (the button on the case is very fragile, every plastic in this thing is made for break up). Maybe if i remove it... The plastic is still crappy but oh... the original keyboard and mice are heavy and hard like a brick

External hub: i've tested a chinese hub/card reader. Tested only usb holes at the moment. Works but if i connect a second or more pendrive to the hub the system pretends to reset the connection to every pendrive attached at the hub, unmounting then remounting all of them. It seems not a good idea to add/remove something during a move/copy work.
Add: Here i think the major fault is because the hub. It can be a good idea try an external powered hub
« Last Edit: May 30, 2020, 08:46:50 AM by Angel »

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2020, 09:07:37 AM »
No, it does not remain! Drag and Drop any file while holding ALT and the file gets copied to the desktop (means copied physically to your boot drive). If you drag and drop without ALT it gets moved and remains at the original mass storage.

then maybe you use a third party software which does that.

in my machines copying files to the desktop always copy them to the desktop of the same volume.

holding alt is the normal way of copying files, in case you dont know.

Quote
There are not many desktops! There is just one desktop, look at your screen, there is just one desktop! ;)
There are different disks, and you can put stuff from your different disks to your one desktop! So if you like to copy a file from any stick to any disk, drag and drop it to the disk (it gets copied).

now i am no longer sure if we really use the same operating system.

Quote
The icon gets moved, and an entry into your disks desktop.db will be crated

okay, now i am sure that we dont use the same operating system. :D

because in MacOS9 there is an archive called "Desktop Folder" on every disk.

there is also a desktop database, but this has nothing to do with the desktop.

maybe you use OS9 ?

Quote
If you like to copy a file from one mass storage to another one and from there to the desktop, drag and drop it to the disk, and klick again and move it to the desktop.

that is exactly what i described above already as best practice - and what you denied because it wouldnt be neccessary.

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2020, 09:31:32 AM »
If the file/directory is the icon and the icon is located in a space defined like a logic representation of a real path, in that representation can be only two type of icons:

that is the major issue for people not used to the system: unlike in finder windows, on the desktop you can not so easily see the path of a file. you could, using third party contextmenu items or the "get info" dialog, but both is not very convenient.

if your life depends on it, we will find someone who writes an applescript or folder action which does that ;)
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Offline Angel

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2020, 12:20:36 PM »
Quote
unlike in finder windows, on the desktop you can not so easily see the path of a file

It is precisely for this reason you must be absolutely sure about the position about what u are seeing without use get info or any addon

Offline Angel

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2020, 05:52:22 PM »
If i needed to restart via keyboard, where is the startup key on a common usb keyboard ?
Sometime the machine doesn't start correctly and the menu bar on top disappear. Without the original keyboard actually i must cut off the power: is there something less bad ?

Offline macarone

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2020, 10:20:26 AM »
>on the desktop you can not so easily see the path of a file.

To see path, highlight file and Command-R.  (Or File menu/Show Original

Offline Mat

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2020, 02:36:58 PM »
only two type of icons: a real icon/file and a pointer/link to a real icon/file. (…) The two ones must be distinguishable every time
Angel, that is the case. Aliases (thats how "links" are called in the Finder), are always with Italic Fonts. You will always see directly if it is a real file, or an Alias. What we are here talking abou is, that there are real files at the desktop, and you cannot see at which volume they are on, at the first look. Of course a "Comman + I" will laways give you immediatly this information.
For an Alias, "Comman + R" will open you the folder with the original, as macarone said correctly.

BTW, I am not sure how other Operating Systems solve this? How is Linux showing Icons from different volumes at the desktop, to make it possible to immediatly recognise which disk they are on?

Offline Mat

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2020, 02:49:55 PM »
then maybe you use a third party software which does that.
in my machines copying files to the desktop always copy them to the desktop of the same volume.
holding alt is the normal way of copying files, in case you dont know.
I know. And the Desktop is always the desktop of the active boot volume. So if you ALT&Drag&Drop, the file gets copied to the desktop of the boot volume. And no, I am not using any 3rd party software, and it is always the same at all my MAcs. I double checked it right now. ;)

Quote
The icon gets moved, and an entry into your disks desktop.db will be crated
okay, now i am sure that we dont use the same operating system. :D
because in MacOS9 there is an archive called "Desktop Folder" on every disk.
there is also a desktop database, but this has nothing to do with the desktop.
maybe you use OS9 ?
My fault, of course you are right, it is the "Desktop Folder"! And no, I am not using OS9!  ;D

Quote
If you like to copy a file from one mass storage to another one and from there to the desktop, drag and drop it to the disk, and klick again and move it to the desktop.
that is exactly what i described above already as best practice - and what you denied because it wouldnt be neccessary.
Where did you get the feeling I denied it? Sorry if I was unprecice somewhere. It is just that copying to the desktop (the desktop folder of the boot drive) works always with ALT. So the way copy to a special disk and than move it to the desktop is only necessary if you like to copy something to a "non boot volume".

Offline Mat

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2020, 02:55:30 PM »
If i needed to restart via keyboard, where is the startup key on a common usb keyboard ?
There is none, as long as it is no keyboard for Macs :-(

Sometime the machine doesn't start correctly and the menu bar on top disappear. Without the original keyboard actually i must cut off the power: is there something less bad ?

Try "Comman + ALT + Esc." for quitting the Finder (or the hanging program), sometimes this helps if something went wrong. But you should see if the Finder is the problem, or some System Extension, and solve the issue.
And for a shutdown, you can always hold the power button at the machine for 10 seconds, it should be less bad than pulling the power cord.

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2020, 02:55:54 PM »
To see path, highlight file and Command-R.  (Or File menu/Show Original

yet another collegue who is using another OS9 than i do. :) in my OS9 command-R does something else.

Quote
is there something less bad ?

there is a gazillion of useful and straight forward keyboard commands in the finder. i can operate it almost mouseless.

reboot
command-control-eject

shutdown
command-alt-control-eject

Quote
BTW, I am not sure how other Operating Systems solve this? How is Linux showing Icons from different volumes at the desktop, to make it possible to immediatly recognise which disk they are on?

i use win 7 for web and i can tell you it is completly terrible there. an alias just looks like any other file there, except that it has an ugly badge in the icon.

(in OS9 iīve disabled the badge^^. and in OS7.5 i replaced "alias" with "*" and "copy" with "-" - how cool is that)

what is even more "useful" in windows is that you dont have label colors, custom icons, you can only open apps by lauchning a document when the app is in /programs and that in most places, aliases to files are not active, for example you can not drag-open a file onto an application icon in the task bar. haha. so what is the task baar good for? :)
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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2020, 03:09:53 PM »
So if you ALT&Drag&Drop, the file gets copied to the desktop of the boot volume.

i think you just dont want to see what is his problem with that or where he is coming from.

1. the DRAG action on the desktop is targeting the desktop folder of the boot volume.

2. to copy files using drag between different volumes, you normally do NOT require to hold modifier keys.

3. but if you drag files from your pendrive to your desktop, you only move it to the desktop of the pendrive.

so

a)
even if someone has learned that each volume has its desktop folder, this behaviour seems highly inconsistent to him, because the same action suddenly requires different command and

b)
there is no solution to copy files by only one action to another desktop but the one of the boot drive.

so the price you pay to have the possbility of using the desktop on a volume of choice (unbezahlbar! :P ) is  that after all using the OS9 desktop happens on a higher abstraction level than in OSX, where you just have to accept that there is only one per user in your user folder - and the rest is completely linear and predictable.

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Offline Mat

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2020, 03:17:05 PM »
To see path, highlight file and Command-R.  (Or File menu/Show Original
yet another collegue who is using another OS9 than i do. :) in my OS9 command-R does something else.
I am really wondering, why your Macs are doing different things. See several shortcut-collections which confirm what macarone and I tell about "Command + R" and "ALT + Drag&Drop". I even checked right now it it may be connected to the Mac OS language version. It is not, … see here for example: https://www.finseth.com/parts/mac-keys.php

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2020, 03:28:14 PM »

shutdown with pc keyboard? erm, shouldnt there be an FKEY trap to suitcase which lets you create an "eject" button on a function key?

not sure how to edit the finder directly; i cant find the menu content. this is not enough:

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2020, 03:31:32 PM »
I am really wondering, why your Macs are doing different things.

command-R stands for "reveal" and this opens the location of the original if you apply it on a alias.

since system 6 when i am not wrong, and until today in 10.15.

if on your computer command-R shows you the desktop folder volume the file is in, then you better upload a picture - because otherwise it didnt happen. :P
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Offline Mat

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2020, 03:32:15 PM »
So if you ALT&Drag&Drop, the file gets copied to the desktop of the boot volume.

i think you just dont want to see what is his problem with that or where he is coming from.
I think I completely understand the "problem".  Even if I am not sure because ot Angels' Alias-request anymore. Perhaps there are things mixed up. In any case it is no real problem as I think, just a matter of logic.

1. the DRAG action on the desktop is targeting the desktop folder of the boot volume.

2. to copy files using drag between different volumes, you normally do NOT require to hold modifier keys.

3. but if you drag files from your pendrive to your desktop, you only move it to the desktop of the pendrive.
Fine, so we finally agreed upon these behaviours.

a)
even if someone has learned that each volume has its desktop folder, this behaviour seems highly inconsistent to him, because the same action suddenly requires different command and
No, it is not the same action. Copying a file within one volume is something different that copying something to the desktop. So while every volume got its own desktop folder, it is nevertheless important to understand  that there is only one single desktop, and it is always the one of the active boot volume, displaying the sums of all active volumes.

b)
there is no solution to copy files by only one action to another desktop but the one of the boot drive.

so the price you pay to have the possbility of using the desktop on a volume of choice (unbezahlbar! :P ) is  that after all using the OS9 desktop happens on a higher abstraction level than in OSX, where you just have to accept that there is only one per user in your user folder - and the rest is completely linear and predictable.
No, it is a lower abstraction level, when you get that the desktop is from the active boot volume, but you still have a desktop folder at any volume, be it a floppy, an external HD, a network volume or whatever. It is the perfect illusion of "Icon = file or folder"! Other Operating Systems are driving me crazy with their mixing of representation of files and folders, or "links" inside Windows or whatever, …

Offline Mat

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2020, 03:36:06 PM »
command-R stands for "reveal" and this opens the location of the original if you apply it on a alias.
That is exactly what I said above. macarone was a little bit unprecice, but it is 100% what I told. So this case is closed! ;)

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2020, 04:12:17 PM »
Quote
No, it is not the same action.

why is it the not the same action? :) copying a file from one disk to another is the same action. thatīs why the user might expect that the same methods are used.

 - when you want to copy diskA/foo.txt into diskA/subfolder/foo.txt you have to ALT-drag.

 - when you want to copy diskA/foo.txt into diskB/foo.txt you can also ALT-drag, but dont have to, you can also just drag.

 - when you want to copy diskA/foo.txt into diskB/Desktop Folder/foo.txt and diskB is where you booted from, you can also just drag.

 - but when you want to copy diskA/foo.txt into diskB/Desktop Folder/foo.txt and diskB is NOT the boot drive, you have to find a workaround for that, because there is no single-action for that.

and now it is getting even worse:

 - when you want to copy diskA/foo.txt into diskB/Desktop Folder/mycoolfolder you can now just drag again.

thats the same shit as with command-N on the desktop: there is no option in the finder how to create a new folder on the desktop of another volume than the boot volume.

this kind of leads - yet not forces - you to mainly use your boot drive for moving around stuff on the desktop.

and there is no real reason why the boot drive is "default". why not alphabetically? why cant i choose which one i want to be in the foreground?

yeah i know, there is a technical reason - the boot drive is ensured to be always available, haha :P

but where is my personal freedom? if someone mainly wants to use disk17 to move files into, his is confronted with using workarounds of 3 more clicks for each action or use folder scripts or whatnot.



Quote
How is Linux showing Icons from different volumes at the desktop, to make it possible to immediatly recognise which disk they are on?

no experience with that. i guess it is very similar to windows, like most things iīve seen in KDE desktops & co.


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Copying a file within one volume is something different that copying something to the desktop.

copying to regular folders in different partitions is copying to a different partition.

copying to different desktop folders in different partitions i also copying to a different partition.

dektop folders are regular archives. the only difference is that they offer this special windows called "the desktop" in addition to the normal finder window.

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it is nevertheless important to understand that there is only one single desktop

there we go: you want to the user to understand what apple would like to have. i want the user to freely decide how things look like. thatīs why you call it a "single desktop". but the files are not going in t hat metaphoric desktop, they are going on the different volumes. (if you find the right workaround^^)

for me the desktop is only the sum of my 25 desktop folder archives.

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No, it is a lower abstraction level

showing a window which shows real paths is a higher abstraction level than a desktop window which shows files which are in different directories?

Quote
It is the perfect illusion

and at the same time it is only an illusion? :P

i give you final quiz to solve now. eventually it will show you the problem (regarding the reception of inconsistence from new users) better.

what is the keyboard command / drag action to make a copy of pendrive/foo.txt to pendrive/Desktop Folder/foo.txt?

you have 15 minutes, then i will ring a bell and you drop your pencils.
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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2020, 04:19:51 PM »
what about this.

can you rename a folder using applescript while it remains invisible? will the files immediately disappear from the dekstop if you rename the desktop folder archive?

one could make the desktop icons of a single partition flash on the screen in order to identify them.

or what about moving them up and down for 5 pixels? :)

(eventually one could also use label colors, but i have no idea how to restore the original status then)
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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2020, 04:40:31 PM »
ok lol, i tried using filebuddy.

when you rename disk/Desktop Folder to disk/Desktop Folder2 the original disk/Desktop Folder remains intact but becomes visible.

if you now move the disk/Desktop Folder to the trash in order to get rid of the icons of the files inside temporarily, disk/Desktop Folder2 becomes visible too and contains disk/Desktop Folder2/ Desktop Folder with all your files inside.

at least the icons on the desktop are gone.

but this ist still not what we wanted to do. need someone with applescript witchcraft here.
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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2020, 04:43:42 PM »
and at the same time it is only an illusion? :P

i give you final quiz to solve now. eventually it will show you the problem (regarding the reception of inconsistence from new users) better.
what is the keyboard command / drag action to make a copy of pendrive/foo.txt to pendrive/Desktop Folder/foo.txt?

you have 15 minutes, then i will ring a bell and you drop your pencils.
Drag&Drop to the same folder with subsequently moving out to the desktop. Perhaps I really do not understand you? The only case when I had problems with this desktop behavior was, when I had several volumes at huge desktops, and problems wiht graphiccards and got 640 x 480 resolutions. But in general the idea of 1 desktop, but desktop folders with the content of every volume having files at the active dektop is nevertheless cosistent and logical in my opinion.

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2020, 05:47:13 PM »

Quote
Drag&Drop to the same folder with subsequently moving out to the desktop.

i think you could only fail the test because you didnt even try it in practice. :D
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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2020, 06:28:31 PM »

Quote
Drag&Drop to the same folder with subsequently moving out to the desktop.

i think you could only fail the test because you didnt even try it in practice. :D
I think we are facing serious communication problems. Of course I tried before, especially as I named the dektop folder wrong previously. If you are referring to the name addition "Kopie", name it, but donīt get so personal please. If you like to make a copy for the desktop folder of the same drive without any addition, copy it previously to any other folder and move it to the desktop, OR, what is the better way in my opinion, move it to the desktop, and ALT drag&drop it back.

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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2020, 06:50:30 PM »
so the correct answer is: you cant do that so easily.

the shortest way is probably to first move it on the dektop, then copy it back to the volume. but even that is weird and a newbie can only find out how it works if he knows how the desktop system technically works. which wasnt exactly the promise.

...

but you know what is even worse than that?

if you have a jpg open in a firefox window in windows 7 and you drag it to the desktop (like you would do on a mac when you want to save the document locally) it only creates a shortlink document.

if you alt-drag it, windows shows the copy badge ("+") - but it still doesnt copy the file; it creates a new file from the content of the image in bmp format. :D

!"§$%&/()=?
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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2020, 12:19:21 PM »
Quote
There is none, as long as it is no keyboard for Macs :-(

Somewhere i should have a pc keyboard with power buttons in the area commonly occupied by F13 F14 and F15 but i don't remember if it's a PS/2 or USB one

Quote
Try "Comman + ALT + Esc." for quitting the Finder (or the hanging program), sometimes this helps if something went wrong. But you should see if the Finder is the problem, or some System Extension, and solve the issue.
And for a shutdown, you can always hold the power button at the machine for 10 seconds, it should be less bad than pulling the power cord.

The hanging problem seems related to the slow cpu: unstuffing, copying big things (big... more than 100MB) o even trying to read certain PDF (like comics or catalogs) are sufficient reason to set the machine in crisis. Probably i can set better memory's options (it's full upgraded to 768MB) but i havent found the correct measure.
In any case i think, like PS/2 peripherials on PC, the ADB keyboard had got a better priority over USB so keys combinations are heard like interrupts from the firmware stored in rom. The same commands launched from USB keyboard need to be read from all OS stack which is collapsing so it wont respond

It's funny and sad at the same time but i think i need this one in mac's sauce:



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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #37 on: June 02, 2020, 04:06:54 AM »
The hanging problem seems related to the slow cpu: unstuffing, copying big things (big... more than 100MB) o even trying to read certain PDF

sounds more like faulty RAM or faulty disk cache.

or maybe it is even caused by not using a proper mac keyboard? :)
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Re: Little updates about PCI USB Card
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2020, 12:05:25 PM »
The ram is all ok. The hard drive surely is old and almost full (but more 2GB free, how much can pretends ?). Before changing it i want to find a proper ata controller.
In every case i'm pretty sure there is some limit from old world rom which doesn't see directly usb peripherial without a proper usb expansion card. It can be a good idea to try sending special command key with non original usb keyboard on newer green G3 with new world rom.