Can't seem to find this model I bought, QS Powermac 3,5

[Steve_W]

Hi guys, it's been a while since I've travelled this forum!  I moved house a couple of years ago and I had no room to put all my gear so I ended up selling both my MDDs (1 of which being the dual 1.25ghz) and got less than market value... I also sold my Digi001 which I am GUTTED about, but what can you do...

Anyway, I always look on FB marketplace for any old kit and yesterday I picked up a QS G4.  So, I looked up the serial number on everyman.com ( CK210JZJMJP ) and it came back with this:

https://everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_800_qs.html

Now when I run the system profiler I noticed a couple of things straight away.  Firstly it boots into 10.5.8 when the max OS is 10.4.11... OK I thought, open firmware has been adjusted to move the flags so it can have it installed, but when I look at the CPU, the system reports it operating at 1.8ghz! (single CPU).

I only bought it to run OS 9.  Is it possible someone transplanted the original CPU with a faster one?  Or is the system reporting it incorrectly?  Last question, will it boot 9.2.2? (I'm going to try tonight!)

Thanks all!

[Steve_W]

So... the machine boots into the MacOS9Lives disk I got off here for unsupported Macs, but once it gets going, the monitor I have attached goes out of range.  The system reports that the card inside is a Radeon 7500, I'm connected via VGA.  I am using an old TV for this to be fair, I expected some issues, I have an ADC card coming as in the bundle of gear I bought is an Apple Cinema Display (with the 35 min micro cross), so I'm hoping that no matter what system I boot from it should see the display OK.

Anyway, the journey begins... now I need to source a Digidesign Digi001 with the cable & card (again, I bought one from a guy on here but sold it... imported it from the states too!)

[teroyk]

I only bought it to run OS 9.  Is it possible someone transplanted the original CPU with a faster one?  Or is the system reporting it incorrectly?  Last question, will it boot 9.2.2? (I'm going to try tonight!)

You might have some of the many CPU upgrades that are made for Powermac 3.5. It should boot easily to OS 9.

[FBz]

Have been asking about anyone having an actual 2002 Quicksilver model as they supposedly changed from Master / Slave HD jumper config to the MDD-similar, Cable Select setup. Your findings concerning this? Also, I’ve several (non-2002) Quicksilvers with the 820-1342-B type motherboard that do accept and run 10.5.8. (One with an 867 MHz processor, most recently.) Would / could you snap a couple of internal pics and please post them? (Especially this area of the MOBO.)



AND 1.8 GHz?
Does it have a Sonnet CPU installed?


*I’ve a Digi002 not being used - if that would work for you
...and if you’d cover the shipping from the U.S.?

[Front 424]

Have been asking about anyone having an actual 2002 Quicksilver model as they supposedly changed from Master / Slave HD jumper config to the MDD-similar, Cable Select setup.

Howdy! 
I saw you mention Quicksilvers before.  I should have made clear in an earlier conversation that I do have the QS 933 from 2002.  Something I can clear up for you maybe?  Regarding Master/Slave/CS?!?  Perhaps?
I've had confusing and sometimes contradictory info about the ATA controller, mostly pertaining to addressing and drive and or partition size.  And maybe boot partition size?    Or whatever.  Seems a few computers in a very small window (like this Quicksilver) may or may not behave somewhat differently compared to ones released shortly before and after?!?

If there's a lot of unanswered questions, it's because there's a lot of unanswered questions.  Seems to be a bit of confusion regarding hard drives in this short period in Mac history.

[Steve_W]

Hi there, so I took a bunch of photos and uploaded to imgur so you can see the Mac properly, I have included as much detail as I though pertinent.  Please ask if you need anything else! I have attached the ones you specified in this reply to make life (hopefully) easier.  The unit looks extremely well looked after, I was amazed really!  Needs some compressed air in it but other than that I can't fault it!

https://imgur.com/a/tRJFZB6

[FBz]

Very nice score there Steve, especially with that Sonnet!

Interesting to note the same exact (B) board in your 2002 QS as in all my pre-2002 Quicksilvers. So unless you or Front 424 (thanks) can report that the 2002 QS requires HDs to be jumpered/set to Cable Select in order to function… perhaps that’s now a myth dispelled? All of my “B” boards use the Master / Slave jumper settings.

Did all the Quicksilver “B” boards come from 2002 Quicksilvers? (I don’t know.)

But if Front 424 reports that his 933 / 2002 QS requires Cable Select…
I can go back to pulling my hair out all over again about this.

[DieHard]

Very nice score there Steve, especially with that Sonnet!

Talk about "Diehard Luck" I am guessing the Sonnet is worth more than you paid for the whole unit...lol

This one sold for over $200
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sonnet-Encore-ST-G4-1-8GHZ-CPU-Processor/264697744443?hash=item3da1370c3b:g:9BMAAOSwt9Bekyya

[IIO]

i have never heard about a quicksilver which can not boot into 10.5., so this is normal.

but if you really have a 1.8 ghz sonnet processor then be happy about it, it is probably the best you can get, especially for the quicksilver/MDD where useful upgrades arent so common.

hopefully it is one which supports OS9 ... no, just kidding.

[IIO]

Did all the Quicksilver “B” boards come from 2002 Quicksilvers? (I don’t know.)

the strange story about them is that there are not only A and B, you also must differenciate between the "MacServer" and the "Quicksilver" models.

here in europe many dealers sold the "MacServer 733" as "Quicksilver" back in the days, which is why we always confusions here about them beeing 48 LBA or not.

[FBz]

i have never heard about a quicksilver which can not boot into 10.5., so this is normal.

Supposedly, the 733 Quicksilvers won't accept 10.5.8. (OS 10.4.11 = max)
AND as much as I appreciate the MDDs... I really do love the Quicksilvers.
Personal preference perhaps but they seem more elegant in their simplicity.
(PSUs are more enduring and more easily accessible & repairable.)

Add that Sonnet CPU into the mix (thanks again TugBoat!) and you ARE Cookin'!!!
(MacServer / Quicksilver models in Europe? Apple keepin' us confused again.)

[Mat]

hopefully it is one which supports OS9 ... no, just kidding.

You are joking, but my Gigadesigns G-Celerator G4/1.4 is so unstable with 9, that I have to count it as "not supporting OS 9". In theory it is a good card, and it had no problems at X but running it at 9 leads to random crashes, every 20 minutes. Even downclocking it, to 1,2GHz didn't change this situation, ... :-(
But I never had any problems with Sonnet upgradecards, while I had 5 in use, so yes; "kidding in this case, but not in general"

[Steve_W]

Guys this has made my day!  Not very often you get something as great as this!

Not that I want to make anyone jealous (I've lost a TON of money over the years buying overpriced or bad kit), in this bundle was a cinema display, 2 mac pro keyboards, one mouse and the G4... I paid £20! Thats about $25 US, insane!

Next step is to see if I can buy a Digi001, or if it's compatible with my old songs, a digi002!

I'm really stoked about this!

[IIO]

Supposedly, the 733 Quicksilvers won't accept 10.5.8. (OS 10.4.11 = max)

mine did. no idea. during the last 5 years of macos9lives i have learned or re-learned a lot about hardware, and i have stopped thinking in right or wrong. nothing seems to be safe on that terrain.

but that 733 shit processor is something i dont want to see again. i still have one. tomorrow i revive it with a new PSU and an 867 processor. i dont need it, but it feels better to have unused machines standing around which work.

[Front 424]

But if Front 424 reports that his 933 / 2002 QS requires Cable Select…
I can go back to pulling my hair out all over again about this.

I do remember fiddling with jumper settings and Cable Select, but I don't remember what the exact situation was because I was dealing with several issues if memory serves,and I am loathe to open up the computer unless I really need.  I prefer to get something in working order and mess around with it as little as possible unless I have to!

What have you heard about this specific model(s)?  Any experiment/setting you would like me to try with it? 

I do believe I have Master/Slave config with the two internal HD's going right now and it's working.  One of the drives is a SATA bridge SSD.  I think that is the slave drive.  I just remember installing it a few months ago, and having trouble with it as Master, but I was pressed for time and/or impatient, and after putting the older one back in as well, I got it working fine, and never took the time to do anything else with it.

If for educational purposes you want to suggest some configuration I should try, please feel free.  It might take me a few days, but I'm willing to do some more fiddling if need be.  I will eventually open that Quicksilver up again anyway, and maybe someone will learn something valuable?

Cheers!

[Front 424]

I'm really stoked about this!

Congrats Steve_W! Sounds like a good find.  I know some of those cards and upgrades are definitely (like DieHard said) worth more than the computers they are installed in.

Which makes me ask a question I've been wondering for a while. 

None of the official Apple Macs in the G4 series had a 1.8Ghz processor, but I think that is the fastest of the upgrade cards.  What the heck is the theoretical limit for such a thing, if someone were to make a modern G4 processor?

[IIO]

the 7447a (last gen alubooks) is said to run at a max of 2,67 MHz

[XinSheng]

the 7447a (last gen alubooks) is said to run at a max of 2,67 MHz

Hmm. I believe that dosdude1 put either one of those or 7448 maybe into an iMac G4. IIRC, it got unstable above 2.0Ghz. Maybe it can go higher in a PMG4 with the 1.42 heatsink or liquid cooling mods. 2,67MHz seems like it would be a bit too high inside a laptop. I think there was someone who increased his FSB speed on his G4 laptop somewhat based off of the macbidouille guide?

[DieHard]

but that 733 shit processor is something i dont want to see again. i still have one. tomorrow i revive it with a new PSU and an 867 processor. i dont need it, but it feels better to have unused machines standing around which work.

Yes, remember the QS 733 has the bad luck of having the lowest L2/L3 cache (256k) of any G4 tower ever made !, even a 433 DA feels faster because of this; so back in the day we would immediately replace it with an older (and faster) DA 733 CPU board; of course these days, the coveted 933 Stock single QS CPU board with 2 MB cache absolutely rocks in the OS 9 world, or if you want to find some "hen's teeth" look for one of these...
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3882.0.html
These 7455s need no firmware patch to boot to OS 9 and are very very stable... although you need absolute "Diehard Luck" to find one

That being said, the Sonnet is an absolute score !   And members seem to swear by them after the initial setup pain

[IIO]

the missing L3 cache had some interesting effects which you wouldnt expect.

soft-GL for example was almost impossible on the "no cache" thing.

after my 733 broke (in 2011?) i switched to the 933. before i could animate 10 sliders with 40 FPS in max/msp - with the 933 it was rising to >200.

and i have less crashes with a certain implementation of FFT code.

i dont understand it, but others had similar experience.

maybe i should just trick steve and tell him that the sonnet encode wont work for him because of his time zone, maybe he sells it to me for 50 bucks?