Author Topic: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.  (Read 845 times)

Offline FBz

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IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« on: April 16, 2020, 10:19:15 PM »
while you are on it... please also test what happens when you use one startech, set
to CS, and one cheap green adapter. the difference between 4 & 17 euro=13 euro.

No need to throw your ADP-06 away.

Good news for those budget-minded Quicksilver owners among us that would like to utilize the inexpensive ADP-06 IDE/SATA adapter bridges with two drives on the main HD cable. You don’t have to buy two Addonics or StarTech (both red PCB) adapter bridges. Quicksilver owners (pre-2002 Quicksilvers anyway) need only buy one... and that might just be a Green "Bribge".


ADP-06


Greystash Green “Bribge”


Addonics


StarTech

AND maybe not one of the higher priced “RED” bridges, IF the much less-expensive “Bribge” adapters that Greystash has mentioned become available and also work. The “GREEN” PCB bridges use the JM20330 chipset while the “RED” ones use the Marvell chipsets. The questions of data read/write performance and of overall dependability between these two different chipsets rages on. I’ve used a JM20330 bridge in a Quicksilver now for about a year and a half with no problems AND a Marvell-based adapter sled in a Mac Mini and an Addonics (also Marvell chipset) in an external case for just as long.

MDD

One ADP-06 works just fine in either a Quicksilver or an MDD - when used by itself. Add another SSD in an MDD on the same ribbon and you then must have two of the Addonics or StarTech adapters. I’ve tried every combination that I could think of with an ADP-06 and a StarTech in an MDD and it’s a definite no-go. It only worked when I used two StarTechs with the jumpers set to Cable Select. And that may be the same for 2002 Quicksilvers as they are rumored to also be Cable Select(?). 


The Quicksilver application is another (better) story.



Using one ADP-06 placed in the Master connector on the ribbon cable and the StarTech (jumpered as Slave) and placed at the end of the ribbon cable… well it works like a dream. [No IIO… not set as CS. I did try that.] Seems that the ADP-06 considers itself as a Master. But If Greystash’s adapters prove suitable and we can get our mitts on ‘em… well, perhaps no more need to ever buy another ADP-06.

Now I just need to fabricate some sort of spacer / mounting-thing to keep the two SSDs apart / level and stable within the Quicksilver’s case. AND Greystash reportedly is planning on a second adapter and plans to test data read/write performance. Hopefully I’ll acquire a couple soon enough to do the same tests within a single QS here, for comparisons. For now, I’m quite happy with the ADP-06 / StarTech combo setup.

$9.33 total for two (not each) for Greystash’s adapters from AliExpress - compared to the $35.08 for (2) StarTechs from NewEgg. That’s a $25.75 difference and I don’t care if they might be just a bit slower. Perhaps someone can find another source for the “Bribges”?


Conventional Drive + SSD

AND if you have an old conventional SATA drive / 40-pin, you can set its’ jumpers as a Slave and place it on the end of the QS ribbon cable with only an ADP-06 & SSD in the Master position on that cable. That works too in the Quicksilver.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 11:08:56 PM by FBz »

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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2020, 06:29:58 AM »
so my assumption was right that you only need one startech in a QS 2002? great :P thanks for testing!

we shall call that system "master/select".
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 06:40:20 AM by IIO »
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Offline Bolkonskij

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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2020, 07:03:38 AM »
wow, great informative post. Thanks for taking the time to share your experience! I wasn't even aware of the second HDD problem. So not all IDE / SATA adapters are created equal!

EDIT:
Just checked mine, yet another model (UP103-5?). Enclosed a photo. Looks similiar to the ADP-06. Didn't work in my MDD 2003 with another HDD on the same ribbon. I figured it was the SSDs fault because I couldn't find any reports on compatibility with PPC Macs.

Might give it another try and see if unplugging that second HDD helps ...
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Offline FBz

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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2020, 09:31:30 AM »
Clarifications or More Mud…

Thanks Bolkonskij, looks like we’ve now another possible low-cost option over the RED Marvell chipset-based adapters and even though I can’t quite make out the printing on that chip, I’d guess that it’s a member of the JM20330 chipset family. (aka: The “GREEN TEAM”) The JP103-5 adapter.


Bolkonskij's JP103-5 adapter - the "Bribge" challenger.

Especially good when one considers that little jumper (Red arrow) “PJ2” on the PCB, clearly marked Master / Slave. Perfect for the pre-2002 Quicksilvers and OK if only one on an MDD’s cable. (“There can be only one”) A very quick search here just now yields several possible sources for that adapter (other than direct from China or via AliExpress?).

Side question: Did you get an overclocked, dual processor CPU from Knezzen for your Power Mac G4, Dual 1.67 Ghz? An MDD, correct? (PM me.)

And IIO… not so sure about 2002 Quicksilvers per-se. https://everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_933_qs.html All the Quicksilvers here are pre-2002 models BUT they all do have Version “B” boards - which allow them the access & use of larger HDs. (Yes, getting muddier and less-clear now.)

Supposedly, the 2002 Quicksilvers went to the Cable Select setup, which might make them more like the CS MDD’s HD setting requirements. Strange when one considers all the HD ribbon cables in my older pre-2002 Quicksilvers have the notched cables (like the MDD cable selects) BUT mine all require Master / Slave settings. What were you saying before IIO, about things getting complicated and Apple not always sticking to certain specs? Ha-ha! It depends!



Anyone here have an actual 2002 model Quicksilver? And then again, maybe my pre-2002 Quicksilvers were updated or modified with MOBOs from the 2002 models? They still require Master/Slave settings. So, who knows?

Guess I’ll be looking to buy some JP103-5 adapters anyway.
Thanks IIO & Bolkonskij.

UPDATE: Well it looks like all of the JP103-5 ship from China and while they are very inexpensive, I have a personal aversion to ordering direct from China. So, it looks like the same hurdle (for me) when ordering Greystash's "Bribge" adapters from AliExpress. Anyone having a U.S. or European source for either of these would be greatly appreciated. There is a source in Florida (U.S.) that has only two of the JP103-5 for $8.99 each + $14.00 for shipping... which puts them back in the Marvell-based (RED) adapter cost range. (Be certain to check for the Master/Slave jumpers when ordering from anywhere.) And Bolkonskij, do please report your findings concerning use with single drive in your G4. Thanks.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 10:29:44 AM by FBz »

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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2020, 03:48:35 PM »
JP-103-5 is the most common and the cheapest, that´s the ones i use everywhere.

@sataman recommends against them because of these two big capacitors might not last until the end of time.

...

until know we called it best practice to avoid bidirectional adapters. but i would also like to bring them one into play.

i have one conrad electronics (14 euro with cables, cased, no jumpers but sexy switches) and one csl (9 euro, has a 4 pin jumper)

both once didnt work to connect SATA optical drives to QS 2001 and QS 2002 (but maybe i am just to stupid). maybe they would work right for the first HD?

a case is not the worst idea...
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Offline FBz

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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2020, 07:51:40 AM »
Ooooh, sexy switches! Yet no mention of JM20330 or Marvell chipsets with those? But maybe another option to consider, test and compare? My current imaginary housemate (a ghostly COVID-19 inspired… wispy, floating apparition of Oprah) finds this all very amusing. ::)

But seriously now…

Anyone remember way back in 2018 when we tested the mSATA sleds for use in the Mac Mini? The Marvell chipsets produced the best read/write performance with MacBench & QuickBench (but not by a great margin) while the JMicron’s (JM20330's) were considerably less expensive. That debate between the two continues to this day with new information now offered by both “Teams” as to the other’s inferior or superior performance and MTBF. Capacitors or no… and depending upon which team you might choose. Go ahead, Google it.

And compare the cost quoted last Friday from the muy capitalista Florida-source for two JP103-5’s? $31.98 for two (including the shipping) for adapters that can be ordered direct from China for $2 to $3.00 each - with free shipping. There’s some very good profit for someone and supposedly those were “the last two in stock”. Hurry. Get ‘em while they last, cowboy!

Might as well shell out for the StarTechs.

From all this, I’ve learned that instead of a “dumb” ADP-06, that it might be better to choose JP-103-5 or even the EVB-002-3 (that’s Greystash’s “Bribge” adapter) because both offer the Master/Slave option at very low cost, whereas the ADP-06 does not. So, why buy an ADP-06 from this point on if you can get an M/S version in same or lower price range? Still, if you already have an ADP-06, it can be worked into the mix (in a Quicksilver anyway).

BUT nobody (IIO?) has yet offered conclusive proof that two JP103-5’s or the EVB-002-3’s will work together in a Master / Slave config (QS) or as Cable Select (in an MDD). Who wants to be first to provide that proof? (It might take a month before sets of both of these can arrive here from China for testing.) IIO if you have two of the JP-103-5’s would you be so kind as to set one as Master and one as Slave on a single cable in a *QS and report back? Or is your QS still non-functional at present? [*OR two - set to CS in an MDD?]

And this isn’t a matter of “I know something you don’t know” or “my adapter is better than yours” or “your adapter will never friggin’ work”. It’s about the testing and the actual performance results vs. the cost comparisons - that can then be passed on to others in our little community so that all might benefit and make a more-informed decision before purchase.

How CAN I make this work?

And to paraphrase an old great quote from MacOS Plus:  I do it for… “the 'technological' challenge”.

Always looking for workarounds here and maybe the Conrad Electronics model might be absolutely great in a B&W G3? Or two “CS versions” for an MDD? Ideally, I’d like at least one of each type of the (JP-103-5 or EVB-002-3) adapters for head-to-head MacBench & QuickBench test comparisons here in the same machine.

I must now confer again with Oprah. :o

Offline mrhappy

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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2020, 10:29:11 AM »

And to paraphrase an old great quote from MacOS Plus:  I do it for… “the 'technological' challenge”.


I think I probably fall into the 'technologically challenged' camp!

I wasted a bunch of time trying to get 2 'cheepos' working on a MDD...before I was aware of the 'No two on a cable' deal so I switched to the 'RED' team!! ;D

Offline FBz

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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2020, 10:40:59 AM »
What two "cheepos" were those? If they were the ADP-06's... yup, no can do. BUT if they were the "*others" (noted above) available in jumper-enabled versions (CS in case of the MDD and M/S for the QS). Please check and respond (and possibly save me time and money). Thank ya. ;)

*JP-103-5 or the EVB-002-3

Offline mrhappy

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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2020, 10:44:16 AM »
I'm thinking it was the ADP-06 but I'll check.

Offline mrhappy

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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2020, 11:05:40 AM »
Looks like I was using the 'Graystash' model... JMicron jm20330. I bought 3 of them...one doesn't work at all ( might have busted it during all of the drive wrestling)... I believe the others are in use in various MDD configuration but they are currently nestled in their rack and I don't wish to disturb them just now.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2020, 11:15:55 AM by mrhappy »

Offline mrhappy

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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2020, 11:16:57 AM »
not sure why the pic went sideways? :o

Offline FBz

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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2020, 11:22:29 AM »
Well, they all do seem quite "dainty" and not made for a great deal of wrasslin'.
And those only offer selection between Master & Slave... like the JP-103-5's.
Which suggests no-go for either in the MDDs (which require Cable Select).
But maybe ho-kay for zee Quicksilvers?

Thus... "Red Team" it is for the MDDs. Thanks! ;)

Yet, it does still beg the "IIO question" of whether leaving the jumpers completely off might yield a useable Cable Select state?
Ahh, sweet mysteries.

Offline DieHard

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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2020, 11:30:56 AM »
Here is the info. ADP-06 for those who missed it with the MDD scenario:

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3576.0.html

Offline FBz

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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2020, 11:35:06 AM »
So... two ADP-06's worked in an MDD for you?
(From that one pic showing that config.)

Wouldn't work here on same main cable.

Never mind... "One SSD Only on the faster MDD controller".
One must read closely. ;)

Offline Philgood

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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2020, 12:19:05 PM »
Damn. Mrhappy. That are some expensive Apogee converters and a pretty collection of studio MDD's there. Can you elaborate more on your setup?
*G4 MDD 1.25GHz (Single 2003)* with 2x 80Gb harddrives, 1Gb RAM, Tascam US-428 and Edirol FA-101 USB/Firewire soundcards-*iMac G3 DV 400MHz* with installs from OS 8.6-OSX Tiger on different harddrives-*Powerbook G4 1.67Ghz* with new SSD ! Love it.

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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2020, 01:47:30 PM »
this thread and the SSD overview are going into the direction we always wanted.
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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2020, 01:50:51 PM »

And IIO… not so sure about 2002 Quicksilvers per-se. https://everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_933_qs.html All the Quicksilvers here are pre-2002 models BUT they all do have Version “B” boards - which allow them the access & use of larger HDs. (Yes, getting muddier and less-clear now.)


forgot to answer... yes of course you are right, that there are several models/series with non-48 bit adressing suggests that they might have quite different controllers with a side effect on architecture. :)

the one which for sure has such an controller is the single 867 - anyone needs to test this.
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Offline Bolkonskij

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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2020, 04:31:05 AM »
Little follow-up here - FBz was spot on! Took out all the hard drives and only put in my IDE/SATA adapter (see post above) with an SSD. And voilá, suddenly everything works fine.

"There can only be one". So true in this case.
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Offline mrhappy

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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2020, 06:25:06 AM »
The multiple 'JMicron jm20330' model was the one that gave me problems with 2 on the main cable(MDD)... when it was ridin' solo things worked.



Offline FBz

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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2020, 08:39:22 PM »
...with JMicron JM20330 chipset
...with one using Marvell 88SA8052 chipset

@toasterking Thanks.
Great Info…
Clamshell, Sawtooth & PowerBook 190!
JM20330 vs. the Marvell chipset comparisons, application & use!
Where have you been for the last month or so, as comparisons are underway again? ::)

Ordered 2 each of the JP-103-5 & EVB-002-3 (JM20330-based) adapters
from China about a week ago for testing / comparisons with the StarTech
Marvell-based adapters and now their delivery has been “updated” to late June.

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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2020, 05:00:52 PM »
i´ve looked around and there are at least 15 brands of dual channel IDE adapters.

the yellow startech is not even expensive, it starts at 12 bucks and includes cables. various brands with JM chip around, too.

if there are no issues appearing with both OSX and OS9 this should be the best solution for a quicksilver.

what i wonder is: they all seem to need power, which is not 100% ideal. maybe there is one which does not need power?

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Offline FBz

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Re: Adapters
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2020, 09:38:21 AM »
Pleases provide source/link/search parameters for that yellow StarTech-based adapter and I’ll possibly add it to my shopping & test list. (Still waiting on China orders for the others.) And I might also pick up this WD 250GB / M.2 to try with it.

As for “power” / regarding the yellow Startech… is there a molex connector on the backside? (Like to see both sides of that adapter.)

Offline teroyk

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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2020, 09:43:18 AM »
what i wonder is: they all seem to need power, which is not 100% ideal. maybe there is one which does not need power?

Of course it needs some power. There is chip and IDE40-connector cannot(/should not) give power for it.
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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2020, 03:43:44 PM »
for me it is not so much "of course", as you can see from the big questionmarkt between my ears.

2 adapters with only 1 channel each dont need power, but 1 adapter with 2 channels needs power? this somehow doesnt make sense to me.

edit: ah wait, of course the single channel adapters will also drain power from the power in socket, and not just pass it through to the disk.^^

so, okay, but that means you need 3 power cables for 2 devices in a dual channel adapter. you save the PATA cable but you need an additional 5V, haha.
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Re: Adapters
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2020, 03:52:24 PM »
As for “power” / regarding the yellow Startech… is there a molex connector on the backside? (Like to see both sides of that adapter.)

nono, it has those small connectors similar to jumper bridges. the cable for connecting it to molex is included.

it looks like the one of the singel channel startech adapter in your start post, just with the difference that the power is not forwarded to the SATA disks.
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Re: IDE/SATA Adapters - ADP-06 / StarTech Etc.
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2020, 04:05:04 PM »

so, here someone did half our job for us.

https://nextthing.co/sata-to-ide
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