Dual booting help needed

[part12studios]

very interesting.  Some great insight and thanks for sharing! 

i'm going to see if i can find an official CS IDE cable to test with.  I know I could hack one but i don't really have any spare ones i could modify that wouldn't be robbing another system.   

They are cheap enough to find although i'm trying to check ebay and figure out how to explicitly know i'm getting a CS cable.  I did find a website that talks about how to make the modification but i mean if i have to buy a new cable anyway, I might as well just by a factory modified CS cable.. 

Although as I'm typing this I'm having trouble figuring out how to ask for a CS enabled cable.  seems like "cable select" is too vague and not really giving me any explicit "this is a CS cable". 

Does anyone know why OS9 would install fine and several different versions of OSX won't?  Although I will also add that before I got OS9 on my 2nd SSD (i left my original fully working OS9 SSD alone so i can always revert) and while that 2nd SSD was still formatted for Windows 7.. 

OSX still would just hang during the initial regardless.. it seems that simply put on my Quicksilver using one of these CS adapters will not install on this system. 

I saw the comments though.  I'm going to try more stuff tonight.. i'm going to burn that 10.2 disk on my machine with Toast. 

My current thought is that I'm cool with using a single SSD 120g for dual booting so i shouldn't need to buy another SATA adapter.. but at this point I can't seem to get OSX of any version i have so far (Cheetah, Tiger, Leopard) none of them work.

And now to top it all off i put a regular Spinner hard drive in.. no sata adapter and OSX cheetah still hangs..  in fact the Spinner actually has a working installation of Tiger on it..  i'm just now starting to wonder if this quicksilver for whatever reason simply will not install OSX on it in any form which makes no sense..   

[FBz]

Thanks for the info IIO. I may try Gary’s C/S cable snip route at a later date. But, if you have to buy two Star-Tech bridges anyway, why change to C/S when you can simply set their jumpers to M & S?

AND the effort was not to disprove Gary inasmuch as it was to illustrate that it was possible to install OS 10.4 on a second partition (on a single drive with the ADP-06) and only with that one drive on the M/S cable… AFTER first installing an earlier version of OS X. In my case this was successful last night with Jaguar installed first and then OS 10.4 installed as an “Update” afterwards. Have done same with MDD and another QS previously.

[part12studios]

hoping this Jaguar first approach does the trick like it did for FBz.  I should know tonight. 

[IIO]

But, if you have to buy two Star-Tech bridges anyway, why change to C/S when you can simply set their jumpers to M & S?

well he obviously used 2 cheap honky kong sata adapters (like the ones i use in many places), and the question which baffles me more is... why do these things have jumpers where you can choose cable select when it does work only for 1 HDs but not for the second one on the same controller?
dont have most win PCs dual ATA ports with the usual 80-to 40 pin cables, just like our macs?

i find it hard to believe that it is an issue only releated to these cheap adapters.

but like i said until now i had luck and when something works for yourself you tend to think that others are are just to stupid... i´ve often been proven wrong with this attitude but i cant help to repeat thinking this way.

what a fucking crazy idea anyway to make a port or cable system where the user has to put two disks and they are not equal but allow different options.

one day we should make a PCI card with thunderbolt 3 for Mac OS 9. it would only give us firewire 400 but probably SATA 600 (and a second network port if you write me one)

[FBz]

“J’aime ces petits moments calmes avant la tempête.”

[Greystash]

This probably isn't of any use but here's my setup anyway..

After spending a ridiculous amount of time tonight trying to replicate my old setup with two SATA adapters I realised that one of the adapters was broken..

Current Setup
ATA133?
200GB Seagate Barracuda - Master
2TB SATA Seagate - Slave

ATA100
DVD drive - Cable Select
200GB Seagate Barracuda - Cable Select

In my previous setup I had a SATA DVD drive in place of my current one, along with the SATA HDD on the other cable. Since I can't with a new adapter until after the lockdown I can't give the exact configuration used.

The SATA adapters I'm using are ~$10 from AliExpress:
JMicron Technology
JM20330
EVB-002-3

[part12studios]

Well I do have some good news finally and it does confirm prior post.  I tried Cheetah.. no dice.. Tiger.. nope..  Leopard.. nada..   BUT. Jaguar did load up normally..  every other one would spin infinitely.. 

one time i think i got "lucky" and a BOOT CD:,\\:TBXI loaded an attempt of Tiger, but ultimately even that one power button of deathed on me and never finished the installation.

I have a question though.. Does anyone know if OS9 can see a OSX partition?  I realize that I have my current drive setup as I like..

The Jaguar install sees my 2nd drive (media) and i could install into that.. but OS9 is 20gb and (media) is 100gb..  I'm not huge on wiping everything and starting over just because it will take time to redo what i have..

If i install Jaguar into that media partition..  would OS9 be able to continue to access it?   Because if that's the case, i don't mind sharing my media storage with OSX..  I have a feeling it would work, but i'm not sure if OSX might change the nature of the partition in the process.

Thanks!
Caleb

[IIO]

I have a question though.. Does anyone know if OS9 can see a OSX partition?

what would think an "OSX partition" is? they are usually both APM/HFS+, and even if it something else, OS9 can see anything what OSX can see.

there are only two things which must be taken into account regarding the actual OSX system components: while invisible or locked folders as well as root- and system-owned files can not be seen or manipulated from the OS9 finder, applications like disk editor or norton defrag will destroy your OSX install. so whatch out with that.

but you can work on the same documents or launch carbon apps located in the OSX applications folder and things like that, no problem at all.

[part12studios]

Ok yea that's great to hear.  I felt like that was probably the case, but feared if i said "yea OSX go install here in this partion" and somehow it be locked / invisible to OS9 that would have been bad.  This will get me back up and running sooner and not have to buy more stuff.  I've not been able to record for awhile with this irking me.

Getting the 12" 1.5ghz powerbook fully working with Leopard and the mSATA IDE 64gb drive working was a good tech day and once this is behind me i'm stoked to get back to it..  AND try out this Profire 2626 with Digital Performer 5.. which i got working on the powerbook, but i really want to get it on the Quicksilver so I can more easily share resources.  Though I do wonder if I will have any trouble with Serial Keyspan card, but fortunately the MOTU MTP AV has usb and serial so that shouldn't matter. 

SIDE Question:
Does anyone know where I could find a manufactured cable select IDE ribbon?  my shopping around seems to indicate everything out there are standard IDE ribbons..  surely people made CS compatible factory made ribbons.. and didn't have people having to solder stuff..  maybe there was a special word because "cable select IDE ribbon" doesn't seem to help me narrow down the specifics.  I want a fully modded one for sure as I've heard performance is better according to a tutorial i found explaining both methods. 

[IIO]

for worksflows which include booting into the other OS in order to use apps which only exist there, i mostly ignore the OSX default locations for apps and documents and use locations instead which are more releated to my organisation how it looks like from OS9.

for example it wouldnt make much sense to render audio files in OSX somewhere under /user and then later copy them to another disk when you run out of space in you OSX boot disk. or reopen them later from an OS 9 app in that location.

it would be technically possible, but it is not very sexy to work like that.

you´d rather have an /audioprojects folder which is shared between the OSes, or which are the default location of the main app in your workflow. same for DTP or photoshop.

unlike under windows (arghh!), it is no problem at all in OSX PPC to install all third party executables onto a firewire disk instead of into the systemfolder.

[part12studios]

very cool yea that was my general thinknig too..    D:\Audio   D:\Video  and then it would be next to whatever various OSX system folders are there.. 

Yea I have always liked how painless it is to move applications to another drive on Mac after installation and work.  Very un-windows-ish. 

[FBz]

Seems that all “green” SATA/IDE adapter “bridges” are not created equal? Thanks for the time spent and your images, Greystash! And funny how these threads covering material that we’ve been over before, will sometimes uncover new things.

All green SATA bridges are not ADP-06.



Looking at Greystash’s SATA bridge, notice the “SHORT: Master” and “OPEN: Slave” text on the bridge? (Red Arrow in attached pic.) Could this now represent a lower cost option to the more expensive “red pcb” Addonics & Star-Tech bridges?


[The ADP-06 bridge (also pictured) only offers a “directional” jumper setting for setting SATA to IDE or IDE to SATA with attached jumper.] Answer to your question IIO?

IF jumpering the pins on Greystash’s SATA bridge would enable SATA drives attached to be recognized as either “Master” or “Slave”  / then a lower-cost SATA two-bridge solution for the Quicksilvers’ Master/Slave requirement… might now be possible for 2 SATA drives on that same cable?

*I especially like the spelling of BRIDGE on Greystash’s adapter: “Bribge”. And while I’ve never ordered anything from AliExpress, I may now order two of these bridges per Greystash’s info.

AND as IIO has already explained… YES, OS 9 and OS X partitions can “see” each other. BUT, maybe out of an “Abundance of Caution” (or sheer superstition) one might simply want to create a folder within the OS 9 (or “Media”) partition entitled “X Files” for storage of anything originating from OS X.

ALSO. I did install OS X Tiger over (again, as an update to) Jaguar… and not as a whollly different and separate version of OS X alongside or in addition to Jaguar. I “overwrote / UPDATED” Jaguar with Tiger. IF that Tiger disk successfully installed on the G4 PowerBook, it should definitely now work on the Quicksilver - unless it has somehow been damaged.

Boot into Jaguar. Load the OS X Tiger install disk. Reboot with the Tiger disk in while also holding down the C key. Then install Tiger as an UPDATE to Jaguar. If it doesn’t boot into the Tiger installer disk this way, then refer to your tattoo and try it again.

[FBz]

SIDE Question:
Does anyone know where I could find a manufactured cable select IDE ribbon?

Check the cable that you already have. Note the red-circled, "notched" cables in the attached pic. The gray cables are out of Quicksilvers, while the black cables are from MDDs. Your cable may already be CS ready - but the Quicksilver simply may not recognize HDs set as CS, because they require M/S config.

Could test this by pulling a HD cage with drives from an MDD and simply plugging that into a QS - but I think I've been lost down that rabbit hole before and it did not work. But do test if you wish and report back. Thanks.

[FBz]

AND… should one ever successfully install Tiger
-don’t forget the following from Europa & GaryN
concerning Spotlight…

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5366.msg39362.html?PHPSESSID=qe04haj3c3o2214ko1j0pvhq27#msg39362

[part12studios]

awesome, that's great.  I don't have any spares laying around.  i don't think i've ever seen cables with those modifications.   

Anyone have one they's sell / give to me?   I just need one.   If anyone knows of a link online that might carry one that would be much appreciated too

Also veeeeery cool about spotlight..  but my takeaway is that you HAVE to install OSX first?  I'm trying to avoid blowing out my OS9 setup because i have everything installed the way i like it.. not the end of the world.. all files backed up but i'd like to reclaim some hours of my life spent on this exercise

Alternately though if i could ge tone of these CS cables that would fix the problem too and allow me to have two separate SSDs..

[IIO]

The ADP-06 bridge (also pictured) only offers a “directional” jumper setting for setting SATA to IDE or IDE to SATA with attached jumper. Answer to your question IIO?

the ones i use look different again, but they also have only 3 pins and give absolutely no clue about what the possible 3 different settings could be for.

so no, my question isnt answered yet.

however, in my case, i have OSX and OS9 on the same disk, so if something wouldnt work when switching to SATA, i´d just switch ports and all is good.

but let´s pretend we are naive: wouldnt 3 possible settings be a hint that you can set master, slave or cable select? and if yes, would those work a cable-select-only QS?

might now be possible for 2 SATA drives on that same cable?

only when your QS actually supports/ only supports that.

“Bribge”

bribge. abbreviation for "made in china".

you can get bribge faster by ordering number seven and it is usually served with "sweet/sour" (33% vinegar, 33% sugar, 33% monosodiumglatamat, 1% tomato - not sure if master or slave)

[FBz]

Okay (laughing) I’ve looked under my bed and I can’t see how IIO’s bridge pins are configured / but 3 pins suggests that it’s either bridged between the first and second pin OR the second and third pin… IF the 3 pins are in a row like the ADP-06 pictured above, earlier. It might only offer the choice of SATA to IDE / or IDE to SATA instead. NO Master / Slave capability?

Now, if it’s 3 groups of 2 pins, like the Addonics (3 groups of two) or Star-Tech (four groups of 2)… that might mean you have the M/S or CS options. (In this case, that would be six or eight pins total, not 3 single pins.) Jumpers typically only jumper between two pins.

It’s all Chinese bribge take-out to me, at this point.

AND YES, Greystash’s bridge offers only the choice between: Master (jumpered) or Slave (not jumpered). SO, it might work with two SSDs & bridges - one jumpered as Master and one (not jumpered) as a Slave. (On a Quicksilver under the M/S scenario.) AND therefore, might not work at all under a Cable Select scenario.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW62LP9a5Yc



And here’s another “green one” that has no jumpers / pins…
that won’t work on a Quicksilver or inside of an external case.
Haven’t tried it on an MDD HD CS ribbon, yet.
And I have meant to throw it away more than once.
Beware the HXSP bridge.

[IIO]

Okay (laughing) I’ve looked under my bed and I can’t see how IIO’s bridge pins are configured / but 3 pins suggests that it’s either bridged between the first and second pin OR the second and third pin…

...or not brigded at all. which sums up to 3 states.

It might only offer the choice of SATA to IDE / or IDE to SATA instead.

i dont think so. they are all advertised as unidirectional.

Jumpers typically only jumper between two pins.

you think so? some HDs use vertical brigding, too. brdgnin. bdriign. now i cant type it anymore.

for example many IDE disks use 7-8 for cable select.

that would be really shit if you needed to use different type of adapters for different types of QS and MMDs.

it is more fun to always buy the same type of adapter, one that works everywhere, so that you dont have to study compatibilty science in order to make music and store data.

[IIO]

there are even jumper settings which run diagonal. what a wonderful, wonderful world.

[FBz]

there are even jumper settings which run diagonal. what a wonderful, wonderful world.

Ha-ha! Still just between two pins!