Author Topic: SyQuest SQ555 SCSI drive on a Mac OS 9.2.2 PDQ PowerBook G3  (Read 1107 times)

Offline giovariot

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Hello, I've been trying to read some SyQuest 44 MB HFS formatted disks through a SyQuest SQ555 drive.
I'm connecting it to a PDQ PowerBook G3 with Mac OS 9.2.2.
 
I've connected it via SCSI through a HDI-30 to DB-25 adapter and a new DB-25 to 50 pin centronics cable. The device is correctly terminated and I selected SCSI ID 4 on it.
Here are some photos of the setup: https://imgur.com/a/kSKLTTE
 
The thing is that SCSI Tools from 1987 shows that SCSI id 4 is currently connected, but any other tool only shows up the motherboard on SCSI id 7
Here are some pics from what the Mac is seeing through various SCSI support softwares: https://imgur.com/gallery/0Z0PE7J

I've installed:
  • SCSIProbe 5.2 -> only shows CPU
  • SyQuest Utilities 4.0.1 -> correctly shows devices on ATA and shows the SCSI bus, but it cannot find any SyQuest drive over it.
  • FWB Hard Disk Toolkit 4.5.2 -> it only shows the internal drives and the CPU on id 7 if I open the SCSI configure panel
  • SCSI Tools 1.0.1 -> shows ID 4 and 7 used, no other info shown.

Unfortunately I couldn't find the SyQuest drivers directly through the web archive of the old SyQuest website, so I ended up installing the SyQuest Utilities found here (https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/syquest-utilities-401) hoping this would be enough to let the Mac detect and mount the drive. But the thing is FWB HDT actually states it supports SQ555 drives, and it's also listed here (https://lowendmac.com/macdan/010511mu.html) as a solution for those who cannot find SyQuest drivers. So don't really understand what's going on.
 
I've tried any troubleshooting tip in the PowerBook G3 service manual and in "Sad Mac Bombs and Other Disasters" but can't find any solution. Does anyone have any suggestion?

Thanks in advance.

Offline FBz

  • Veteran Member (100+ Posts)
  • ****
  • Posts: 123
  • Older Than Dirt
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 30
Re: SyQuest SQ555 SCSI drive on a Mac OS 9.2.2 PDQ PowerBook G3
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2020, 04:28:50 PM »
Is there a little selector switch "slider" on that HDI-30 to DB-25 adapter? If so, have you tried it in both positions?
I'd have to go dig mine out from who-knows-where to check but I have used it with a Lombard & SyQuest drive IIRC.

Oooops, never mind... just viewed your pics and switch is correct. SyQuest spins up okay? Try different SCSI ID's.
If no other SCSI devices connected, seems that it did require 0 or 1 ID.

*Just checked my old SyQuest drive (down in storage cavern) and yup, still set @ SCSI ID 1. Try it.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2020, 04:46:20 PM by FBz »

Offline giovariot

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SyQuest SQ555 SCSI drive on a Mac OS 9.2.2 PDQ PowerBook G3
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2020, 12:01:19 AM »
Thanks, I tried again any ID but nothing showed up (apart from SCSI tools correctly showing the IDs in use each time)

Offline giovariot

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SyQuest SQ555 SCSI drive on a Mac OS 9.2.2 PDQ PowerBook G3
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2020, 12:26:33 AM »
I actually tried every single SCSI id with and without termination. Nothing shows up.

Offline FBz

  • Veteran Member (100+ Posts)
  • ****
  • Posts: 123
  • Older Than Dirt
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 30
Re: SyQuest SCSI Drive
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2020, 12:28:51 PM »
I hope you have some very important data on your SyquestÖ if not, please advise so Iíll stop.

Have just spent a couple of hours with the Lombard and Syquest drive here. NO-GO. I swear it worked a few years agoÖ but many HD wipes and re-wipes, OS installs and re-installsÖ now later, itís not recognizing the SyQuest. Next test here will be to check the SyQuest drive with an old OS 7.5 Performa. (That HAS worked within the last couple of years.)

Iíve tried (as have you) SCSI Probe 5.2, SyQuest Utilities, FWB Hard Disk ToolkitÖ etcetera. Next, the old time-consuming SCSI VooDoo habit of selectively turning off and on extensions should follow. But Iím throwing in the towel for today. *Might even consider a fresh install of Appleís original OS 9 instead of the Forumís 9.2.2 - just in case something might have simply been left out (because who really uses SyQuest anymore?).

Anyway, I regret no success here to report. (I didnít try the 1987 version of SCSI tools.)

So unless youíve a ton of data on SyQuest that needs transferring to some more recent, modern storage technology AND youíve no other way to access itÖ this seems like a very large time-suck.

Iíll post Performa results when available.

Anyone else care to jump in here OR have an applicable solution?

Offline giovariot

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SyQuest SQ555 SCSI drive on a Mac OS 9.2.2 PDQ PowerBook G3
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2020, 02:07:30 PM »
Thanks a lot for your work!

I actually do have important data on those SyQuest disks, and this is probably the only way I can get them out. Actually they were the only reason (together with the SuperDrive floppy drive) I bought this used G3 Powerbook. I would have actually bought a full desktop Mac but in the end I thought it would have been better to have a computer that is SCSI compatible, reads 400/800kb floppies, can connect to ethernet and is small enough to put away when not in use.

My father used to backup all his data on these SyQuest disks, together with a zillion of mostly DS floppies with a Machintosh II and later an LC 630. The Mac II is still in his office, probably stopped working a few years ago, the LC630 disappeared a few years ago. So this is the only way I can get that data off them.

Do you think it would work on older versions of the OS? I have a Mac OS 8.1 CD, unfortunately it's the earliest version I can install on the Powerbook.

Offline FBz

  • Veteran Member (100+ Posts)
  • ****
  • Posts: 123
  • Older Than Dirt
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 30
Re: SyQuest SQ555 SCSI drive on a Mac OS 9.2.2 PDQ PowerBook G3
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2020, 03:18:14 PM »
Thanks a lot for your work!

Do you think it would work on older versions of the OS? I have a Mac OS 8.1 CD, unfortunately it's the earliest version I can install on the Powerbook.

You're very welcome. I've discovered some old forgotten files here too as a result of this exercise. I just connected the SyQuest with a regular SCSI cable (not the HDI-30 to DB-25 adapter) to a 9500 tower running OS 8.6 and it mounted right up. (FWB HDT 1.6.3 is present on the 9500.) It would be interesting to know if OS 8.1 with the HDI-30 to DB-25 adapter works for you as well. Please post your results. Thanks.

Offline ssp3

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 67
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SyQuest SQ555 SCSI drive on a Mac OS 9.2.2 PDQ PowerBook G3
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2020, 06:18:41 PM »
Just FYI
FWB HDT 1.6.3 might be too old for OS 8.6 and HFS+. I think it should be at least 3.x.x. if not 4.x.x. Check the HDT release notes.

Offline giovariot

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SyQuest SQ555 SCSI drive on a Mac OS 9.2.2 PDQ PowerBook G3
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2020, 11:37:23 PM »
First try: with only SyQuest Utilities installed as I canít manage to install FWB HDT. Iíll check later how to install it. Same as with 9.2.2, the only tool showing something is connected is SCSI tools.

Offline giovariot

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SyQuest SQ555 SCSI drive on a Mac OS 9.2.2 PDQ PowerBook G3
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2020, 11:58:54 PM »
What about term power?

Itís a difficult concept for me to grasp atm but it seems the only thing I have not worried about until now. Is there a way for the SyQuest drive to supply termination power? As Iím not so sure the PowerBook supplies it.

Is there any other way to supply it in case neither the Mac nor the drive would supply it?

Offline FBz

  • Veteran Member (100+ Posts)
  • ****
  • Posts: 123
  • Older Than Dirt
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 30
Re: SyQuest / SCSI / PowerBook G3
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2020, 09:44:15 PM »
Monday night:
Iím very seriously beginning to wonder if this Lombard PowerBook ever did really access external SCSI drives of any sort via the HDI-30 to DB-25 adapter, even as I remember it doing so before. (I do not like SCSI, never did.)

The 9500 downstairs had FWB HDT versions 1.6.3 and 2.5.3 (both of which were disabled) and the SyQuest mounted, without either of them ďactiveĒÖ under OS 8.6.

However, I did load FWB HDT 1.6.3, 2.5.3 and 4.5.2 on the Lombard upstairs - running OS 9.2.2 and nothing ever mounted or magically appeared via the adapter route. (ďNothingĒ = 4 different external SCSI drives AND the SyQuest.) Is there something missing in ďourĒ OS 9.2.2 that might have been present to enable this task under the original Apple PowerBook OS? Or is this adapter simply faulty?

*Now, later Tuesday night:
Well, didnít have the original Apple PowerBook install disk for the Lombard (OS 8.6) so I used commercial copy of Apple OS 9.0. / clean install. Didnít load any version of FWB HDT or SyQuest Tools (and no SCSIProbe or SCSI Tools either). Shut down after OS install. Powered up the SyQuest drive with disk out. Restarted and rebuilt the desktop and then after complete startup, pushed SyQuest disk in and it mounted.

May update with Apple-sourced incremental updates to get the Lombard to OS 9.2.2 eventuallyÖ but no pressing matter. Looks like it is possible after all and I havenít completely lost my mind, yet. ::)

https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/apple-system-software-recovery-cd-2

Offline giovariot

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SyQuest / SCSI / PowerBook G3
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2020, 01:36:14 PM »
Now, later Tuesday night:
Well, didnít have the original Apple PowerBook install disk for the Lombard (OS 8.6) so I used commercial copy of Apple OS 9.0. / clean install. Didnít load any version of FWB HDT or SyQuest Tools (and no SCSIProbe or SCSI Tools either). Shut down after OS install. Powered up the SyQuest drive with disk out. Restarted and rebuilt the desktop and then after complete startup, pushed SyQuest disk in and it mounted.

Wow! I have to try, let's see if my really scratched copy of OS 9.0 CD still works ;) (mu PDQ it's actually very picky about the CDs..., I really don't know why but I needed Xpostfacto to even boot OS X 10.1 which is officially supported...)

Offline giovariot

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SyQuest SQ555 SCSI drive on a Mac OS 9.2.2 PDQ PowerBook G3
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2020, 02:35:43 PM »
No  :-[ same shit happens

I'm out of luck for centuries to come apparently...

Offline FBz

  • Veteran Member (100+ Posts)
  • ****
  • Posts: 123
  • Older Than Dirt
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 30
Re: SyQuest / SCSI / PowerBook G3
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2020, 03:21:32 PM »
No  :-[ same shit happens

Successfully install Apple original OS 9 / or the optical drive wouldn't read it?
Check your connections (wiggle 'em all a bit) and maybe even try a different SCSI cable.
Has that SyQuest drive functioned well before in its' current config or is it new to you?
Have you tested that SyQuest drive's functionality with any other Mac?
OR have you checked another SCSI device, connected via that cable & adapter?

Ömy PDQ it's actually very picky about the CDs..., I really don't know why but I needed Xpostfacto to even boot OS X 10.1

Yes, while some of the PDQ and the Lombard optical drives arenít really all that different, the Lombardís drive here was always and especially very picky to the point that I had always considered replacing it. Once I had wiped all OS X from the HD previously and installed only MacOS9Lives OS 9.2.2, the drive became much more responsive / less picky. (Even playing DVDs - where before it would not.) Havenít closely checked itsí performance since the new Apple original OS 9 install.

Comparisons between the Lombard and some PDQs here:
everymac.com/ultimate-mac-comparison-chart/?compare=all-powerpc-macs&highlight=2&prod1=PowerBookG308&prod2=PowerBookG307&prod3=PowerBookG306

From your previous pics, got the impression that maybe the SyQuest drive had possibly been re-housed in an external case?

Might be time for another drive or an inexpensive Performa... until you can transfer the data and then resell after project complete?
 

Offline giovariot

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SyQuest SQ555 SCSI drive on a Mac OS 9.2.2 PDQ PowerBook G3
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2020, 05:34:08 PM »
I successfully managed to install 9.0, no problem there, but it works exactly like 9.2.2.

Already bought a new cable coz someone on reddit told me it might be that a few weeks ago.

The SyQuest drive is spinning, even if it hasn't been used in at least 10 years, maybe 15 (that's why I had to jerry rig a way to power the drive up as the old power supply wasn't working apparently). I don't even remember the last time my dad used it.
I didn't have the chance to check on any other SCSI support Mac as at home I only have my PowerBook, my G3 iMac and a couple of Macintosh 512k/plus. My father used to use the SyQuest drive on an LC630 Macintosh and previously on a Macintosh II.

At the moment I don't want to spend any more money on that. I'd surely like to take all the old data off the SyQuest disks to put it in a modern HDD. They're definitely an interesting storage medium but they're not really very accessible, and having almost 50 of them they take a lot of space. My last chance is to try the drive connecting it to the old Macintosh II, which hasn't been used in probably the same amount of time and it's actually downtown in my fathers office, closed for quarantine.

So... Thank you very much for going out of your way to help me solve this issue, I hope I will manage to get the data off those disks :)

Offline FBz

  • Veteran Member (100+ Posts)
  • ****
  • Posts: 123
  • Older Than Dirt
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 30
SyQuest / SCSI / PowerBook G3
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2020, 06:25:11 PM »
At this point Iím left only to assume that it might be the SyQuest drive itself - if youíve no other SCSI devices (an external SCSI HD, etc.) to test whether or not the adapter + cable combination is actually working. Have you tried different SyQuest cartridges - as you might be working with a single damaged cartridge? It happensÖ with technology that old (especially the SyQuests).

Hopefully quarantines will eventually all be lifted and perhaps then we might return to some semblence of normalcy.

Take care and be well.

Offline giovariot

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SyQuest SQ555 SCSI drive on a Mac OS 9.2.2 PDQ PowerBook G3
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2020, 05:27:22 PM »
Little update: I tried Mt.Everything as I've read somewhere that it was actually able to mount everything (pun not intended).

It didn't manage to mount any drive but for the first time a SCSI software other than SCSI Tools is showing that a SCSI ID is actually in use, and it's also telling me it's a disk. Unfortunately I couldn't get to mount it, though.

I also noticed one thing: it's not showing in the "Motherboard bus" but in an "Apple Virtual Bus". What would it be supposed to mean? Is there anything to do with not being able to mount it?

Thanks in advance, and take care as well!

Offline (S)ATAman

  • Veteran Member (100+ Posts)
  • ****
  • Posts: 166
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SyQuest SQ555 SCSI drive on a Mac OS 9.2.2 PDQ PowerBook G3
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2020, 06:05:07 PM »
I noticed, I do have an ACard SCSI card, it was inside of a recently purchased G4.

I loaded 10.5.8 on the G4 MDD and the SCSI card does show up properly, with driver installed and I got SCSI Parallel Domain 0.
The card is not bootable, i.e. there is no OpenFirmware driver and I don't think they made "9" driver for it either.
It has the regular 50-pin internal connector and the wide external.

I think, this could be the best way to address your problem. If your drive is OK, you should be able to see the cartridges at least under 10.5.8 and G4 MDD.

The problem:

- a nice strain of genuine Wuhan-made COVID-19 will arrive with the said controller for free (provided, I am allowed to visit the post office, but I am discouraged to do that)
- I am in most eastern corner of France, just opposite Rastatt in Germany. So it may take time
- I do not know, what is the best way to sanitize any given thing I touch.

Be warned: it is not a hoax, but not very far from it. People indeed can and DO die.
The worst features are the long time until the "bug" develops into a problem (2 weeks), the very long time to get rid of it (up to 2 months) and a smorgasbord of symptoms it has. Each symptom is mild, all together they are a mighty, crowned-royal pain in the ass.

It is more-like the Russian roulette: normally, there is no bullet there. With about 0.5 - 1% chance there is.
But if you drive, the chances to "meet" a drunkard driver running red do exist - and the consequences are far scarier, than COVID-19.


One more thing: I wasn't involved in any SCSI driver development undertaken by ACard and have no access to the sources of that driver.
That means, even if the driver runs OK under 10.5.8 I do not know, can I produce any kprintf output via FireWire on an other Mac.
I do not have any SCSI drive either, so it's a crap shot.


Offline giovariot

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SyQuest SQ555 SCSI drive on a Mac OS 9.2.2 PDQ PowerBook G3
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2020, 04:02:26 AM »
Well, the thing is I don't have any computer to put the controller into, so thank you for your offer but I wouldn't be able to use it at the moment.

By the way: with what you wrote do you mean you have COVID-19? If so please call your doctor, take care and avoid contacts, and if you need to have them wear a surgical mask so it can at least stop aerosols (I don't know how France is going on things ATM but even if you're allowed that doesn't mean it is a good thing to go out being both asymptomatic and symptomatic).

About the mildness of the symptoms: it really depends on what underlying health conditions are for sure, but that doesn't mean it cannot be a huge burden for healthy people as well. Also not all symptoms are mild, an interstitial pneumonia is not mild, at all. Even young people are dying, albeit the mortality is quite low in my age-gap. The mortality among the general population, though, is actually way higher: here in Italy is currently ~10%. It is a preliminary estimate and it is probably quite lower, but I honestly think we should really avoid broadening the clinical sample. So please, stay home, even if it is to do a nice thing for me, SCSI drives can wait  ;)

Offline (S)ATAman

  • Veteran Member (100+ Posts)
  • ****
  • Posts: 166
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SyQuest SQ555 SCSI drive on a Mac OS 9.2.2 PDQ PowerBook G3
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2020, 12:00:40 PM »
By the way: with what you wrote do you mean you have COVID-19?
All I have to say that my oldest kid, the entire family of the brother of my "ex" and quite likely my youngest kid and my wife got it. Me, too.
My youngest kid and my wife over-slept it, so I chastised them: "you should be on the full alert with COVID-19 and don't relax and over-sleep the attack".
My oldest kid became a king for a week, now his carrier as a royal Swede is over, he is back to be an immigrant in Sweden and has to go to work.

I had to fight the family of my "ex" - and I lost pathetically.
Their borders aren't closed, ours are. I was unable to get the best barbecue sauce for the COVID-19 while I ate it - they could. And I lost to them again.

But other than that, take it extremely seriously, with some humor.
And don't try these tricks at home, unless you have anything to do with "Ataman"-s.

BTW: all this is noted, the scientists want our samples to test, what the heck is going on: certain people with genetic background from certain countries eat COVID-19 for lunch, certain people die.

I have a very brutal explanation: in order to get COVID-19 we have to be born to begin with.
In certain countries if you are born, you are already trained well enough how to properly aim a bottle with vodka at the head of the COVID-19.
One well-aimed "bang" - COVID-19 is dead, RIP.

A pub fight in these places happens with bottles full of vodka aimed at the head of the opponent, not with guns. The said bottle - if used properly - is a deadly weapon.

As idiotic as it is, a certain president of a certain country encouraged the citizens to ride tractors(!) to be in shape and to take care of agriculture industry - and in the evening to drink as much vodka as they can, to kill the COVID-19.

We did not know, should we laugh or cry. I am formally not a citizen of that country, even that most of my family is from there.
Besides U.S. I "belong" to a much larger place next to it. Dunno the tricks, but COVID-19 has no chances  ;D