serial cards for non serial Macs?

[part12studios]

dad gum it... yep..  that's a bummer..   ok so i think i'm having some luck with OMS, but yea until i can get a serial card for the G4 I'm SOL..   Thanks for finding that little nugget of knowledge!   

I setup OMS and i added a couple of devices..  but yea without a physical serial device i guess Digital Performer just sees 1-1 through 1-16 generic MIDI ports..  it's not talking to any hardware..  but i feel encouraged that when I get the serial card I may see something to interact with. 

[part12studios]

put in an offer for that stealth port.. hoping they accept and it comes my way soon..  very interested to see how it OMS works with DP3 and other software.  I know I could get the usb serial for less than $30, but it feels dirty to use usb not only for the data delivery stuff, but also because it feels detached from the system coming in as USB vs the system being directly connected to it. 

[IIO]

this is not what you want to hear and doesnt solve the original issue, but you could sell your interface for 50 bucks and get an usb interface for 100.

there are much better things to do with a free PCI slot than adding a 3000 years old connection type to a G4.

[part12studios]

yea the thing is that I have a pretty sweet setup already..  so while yes a usb interface (i have a FW400 Safire 400 with 2 in / 8 out / midi, thought I'm not sure it's OS9 compatible, haven't looked) would work, i'm happy with what i have and would like to take it all as far as it can go. 

and even if I go pure serial and have to give up the MIDI Express, I can get by with 16 in/out..  at one point my studio actually needed 24 outs (well i could have done THRU but wanted to have each synth have a dedicated out so any synth could be on/off without relying on another to be on to work) but i scaled back a bunch..   

so yea for $50 to get access to older software that really was writen to serial and not meant to interact with newer standards that didn't exist when the software was written (USB) I feel like it's a decent investment..  plus it opens me up to try out other hardware / software that up till now i've been unable to access.

Thanks!
Caleb

[part12studios]

to see where i'm at with things..  but ul

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r48kgyk1w8sagtv/IMG_3269.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2p7drfi1y8nv40w/IMG_3270.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pndkbxjjry2juqx/IMG_3271.JPG?dl=0
(so i think this [icture above is where I would see the MTP AVs IF I had a serial connection)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8xtnh0181nzdbzp/IMG_3276.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ia6nn0090hprdap/IMG_3277.JPG?dl=0

[IIO]

yes, one interfaces ports would appear there beside QT instruments and IAC bus.

[part12studios]

Ok I bought the ebay G4 stealth port.. ended up coming to $57 or so with taxes..  so it's on its way.  once i get it I'll install and report back. 

Are there drivers involved with the stealth port or does it "just work" on an OS level?


I'm also (side note) having fun with the M100 J6000 digitizer jobby.  I found the OS9 software and had the OS9 S/N for the card so I don't have to mess with dual boot (though i will do it since i have Tiger DVDs thanks to FsB).. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kip82m19t08cbi1/83543670_10158195192028083_2127014495292227584_o.jpg?dl=0

[IIO]

Are there drivers involved with the stealth port or does it "just work" on an OS level?

shouldnt. midimanager or OMS both will be able to use the port as soon a supported device is present.
(or does it use the modem driver which is already part of the OS install? i dont know. you will hav ethat anyway.)

[part12studios]

I'm still a little hazy though on how the stealth card is installed.  it's not a PCI or PCMCIA product.  it has two screws and some kind of interface to plug onto:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zcwAAOSwXqpeGNs1/s-l1600.jpg

what is this port and what else would it be used for? 

[IIO]

you replace the built-in modem with it, which is somewhere on the mainboard.

as some G4s dont have a modem preinstalled, you have to find where the right place is.

same with the connector: open that metal modem port box and replace what is inside.

[part12studios]

ah ok that makes sense.  yes i believe my quicksilver has a modem built in so that's good to know. 

[part12studios]

Well unfortunately it turns out this steal port device isn't compatible with my Quicksilver G4..  the stealth card is close.  the screws are the same, but there is a piece that comes out that is what the ribbon extends from and this runs into the motherboard main PSU connections..  very unfortunate. 

Has anyone installed a stealth port on their Quicksilver?  I would love to be wrong in this, but i simply don't see how i could make it work...  going to initiate a refund tomorrow.  it's a shame too because it seems like there is so much unused space inside the dimensions of the modem that they could have kept the stealth indentical to the shape of the modem, unless the older G4 macs had a modem shaped like this?

[IIO]

System requirements

Open modem slot (no internal modem) - all models

Stealth Serial Port for G5
– Power Macintosh G5
– Dual 2.0 GHz., 2.3 GHz., 2.5 GHz, 2.7 GHz.
– Single 1.8 GHz (2005)
– All G5's except first generation (2003) and dual core (late 2005-2006)

Stealth Serial Port for G4 - Universal model - Sorry sold out!
– Power Macintosh G4 "Mirror Drive Door" (Dual 867MHz, Dual 1 GHz, Dual 1.25 GHz)
Note:Serial connector mounts on a bracket that replaces a PCI slot cover on the "Mirror Door" systems.
– Power Macintosh G4 "QuickSilver" (733, 800, 867, Dual 800 MHz, Dual 1 GHz)
– Power Macintosh G4-2001, 4-PCI Slots (466, 533,667,733 MHz)
– Power Macintosh G4 Dual Processor (450, 500 MHz)
– Power Macintosh G4 AGP graphics (350, 400, 450 or 500 MHz.)

Stealth Serial Port for G3 - Sorry sold out!
– Power Macintosh Blue & White G3
– Power Macintosh G4 with PCI graphics

Stealth Serilal Port for iMac - Sorry sold out!
– iMac rev A-D (233-333 Mhz.)


i´ve no idea why the 933 is missing from the list.

however, the install instructions mention "2001" and "2002"


http://www.geethree.com/stealth/install/g4installd.html


and the photos only distinguish between "quicksilver" and "MDD" (but which doesnt mean  there couldnt be exceptions which are not supportet)


http://www.geethree.com/stealth/install/g4viewa.html

[part12studios]

yea i'm just returning it..  just somehow got missed..  or maybe the actual port i have was made earlier and later models supported later macs and the documentation reflects the latest versions they sold.   

mine is a 867mhz Quicksilver.  mine has an internal modem installed.  i removed that card and the metal box / modem port to make room for the serial port..  but yea just off by maybe 5-10mm.. unfortunately there is no give anywhere.. it has to fit right or won't work.. nothing i could do except go in and maybe rewire the PSU/Motherboard but no way i'd attempt anything like that. 

[IIO]

u sure it is an original? even if it some hong kong fake product i would expect that it fits into the designated space and has the right connector.

[part12studios]

Well considering the card proudly has the year 1999 stamped on it in the picture and I believe the Quicksilver came out in 2001, I have to assume it was made before the computer came out. The modem card I have in my Mac looks identical to the one in my sawtooth.

Square hole rectangle peg :-)


I can tell though looking at my sawtooth that this Southport would fit fine in that computer. The PSU wiring isn’t the same configuration as the Quicksilver.

The modem port on the motherboard definitely looks compatible it’s just a slight design flaw.
Maybe in 2001 and beyond they were still use an old 1999 printed cards? It’s possible but doubtful. They probably just came out with later models of the card to Support newer models and this is just an old batch. 

I have to pay for the return shipping to get a refund, but at least anyone in the future knows to confirm that the card is physically compatible with their particular Mac not just based on CPU alone.

Since I got the media 100 card working in my quicksilver, I guess I could slap OS9 back on sawtooth and install the card and test software with it before I return it. I suppose that would answer some questions, however ultimately it’s not a solution and I’m not sure if I’ll have time this weekend but i will try

[part12studios]

Hey so it took a few weeks and a pandemic to get things tested out..  but to be fair i've gotten a hell of a lot of stuff done in this time.. (fixing up a 12" powerbook, working on a pachinko machine, two reel to reels working, testing out various external hard drives and floppy disks / software from the Museum).. btw, be sure to check out my post regarding disks / images I found regarding that in the other post, before i format the drives to make space for new purposes. 

..just not regarding the serial testing with the Keyspan Pro card (ironically I found a free one at the Mac Museum allowing me to return the other to the most excellent Fdb)..  woot.

So regarding OMS, it looks like it's working well so far.  I do have one question though..  with OMS.. it feels like (and maybe i'm just not seeing it right) maybe OMS only supports 16 midi channels collectively?  Or does it also still support 16 midi channels per OUT as FreeMIDI does via USB? 

When I had two separate devices that I added and I believe appear in their own respective out/in ports seemed to complain that both were set to channel 1.. so i shifted them to separate midi channels and all seemed well.

I can work within those constraints, but kinda hoping its not the case still.

I have the MTP networked two together so I should have 16 in / out..  and taking the MIDI Express (USB) out of the equation.   but it's super important to know if I need to approach OMS as 16 midi channgels total or if it's possible to have up to 128 ins / outs like FreeMIDI can (i know transmitting on that many channels is technically not possible without trouble with data flow and an extreme, but it was nice to be able to exceed 16 channels even if just for mapping but not ever actually expect to use every one of those devices on every one of those channels in real time..

[IIO]

why would you think OMS support only 16 channels?

we dont know the exact limit, but there are interfaces with 10 ports whose driver support up to 4 or even 8 devices, that alone is far over 1000 channels, so dont worry.

[part12studios]

ok good to know.  what the system was telling me felt like it was not seeing two separate devices on two separate IN/OUT ports.. but i'll tinker more with it knowing that it is possible.  seeing that it's serial, i wasn't sure if there might be some greater data constraints possibly.. 

I'm just glad to see it's genuinely talking over the keyspan to two separate devices.  doing some initial sanity checks before i get deep into this because i'm going to have to rewire a number of midi devices and it's a mess of cables in there so i want to only do it once!

[IIO]

right after installation you should see 2 IAC buses and quicktime musical instruments, which makes already 3 ports of 16 channels each.