serial cards for non serial Macs?

[macStuff]

let me know how things go with the jamport;
might take awhile to get shipped to u from australia
but you cant beat that price and you cant beat the product either
if its an exact clone of the stealth port

[GaryN]

i still never got my hands on a keyspan PCI or a keyspan USB i came close to ordering a usb keyspan but it never happened... in my eyes its a bandaid solution it would be nice to get one for experience sake though; for testing + comparison purposes if i ever feel like wasting more of my planet earth time

I've used a Keyspan USB for years. It always worked flawlessly, operating invisibly as it "magically" restored a serial modem and printer port to my MDD.
It's not a "bandaid" solution by any means. It simply and reliably attaches a pair of RS-422 ports to the USB bus and interfaces with any Mac-compatible accessory or device that needs to connect via serial. MIDI, printers, scanners, cameras, network adapters, it's all the same to it.

I just recently snagged a Keyspan PCI 4-port and swapped it in not because i felt a need to but well, just because it was there and it seems that logically it makes for a more direct connection by not having the USB in between.
If I experience any changes, improvements or shortcomings in the near future with it, I'll be sure to post about them.

[GaryN]

regarding usb to serial adapters..  wouldn't this kinda go back to the problem of usb / midi performance?  not to say that i've encountered any problems with midi over usb except when i have too many MIDI Clock signals being pushed, but (thanks to IIO) I was able to contain the flood of midi clock info from my Alesis Nitro brain module.

A great feature of the Keyspan USB is that it adds TWO serial ports (just like the old days) not one. It is able to do that because USB 1.1 is fast enough to carry the traffic of two MIDI connections over serial. That was a big thing that attracted me to it originally.
I have a hybrid setup. I use SVP over 8 channels of ADA (M-Audio Delta 1010) PLUS as many as 8 tracks of tape (Fostex). This requires a constant stream of SMPTE converted MIDI Time Code (Opcode Studio 5) to sync the DAW and the tape. That can and will cause near-complete disruption of any and all other MIDI on the same port because it demands absolute priority over everything else. So I have always done the obvious: kept it on its own dedicated port.

This is your MIDI clock problem on steroids.

Bear this in mind as you attempt to dump the entire MIDI load on the Jamport. You will have the exact same limitations where clock data can clog up the stream and hiccup note data. Clock and timecode are the Achilles heel of the MIDI. The simple fact that it's a serial protocol means everything has to cooperate and literally stay in its own place in line - no pushing and shoving and especially cutting in line allowed. Timing data however, simply can't be pushed around. It must be in its proper place in time or it simply doesn't work.
This is exactly why internet audio and video-over-IP and similar use data buffering on each end to provide timing "cushions" so data can be delivered in proper time. This kind of buffering-data-to-allow-for-critical-timing-bits does not exist in the MIDI protocol. It's one of the (remarkably few) things unanticipated and left out of the MIDI 1.0 spec.

Post-post commentary
I remember going around and around with you on that Nitro can't-shut-the-clock-off stuff. I'll remind you again that it had nothing to do with the USB component of your setup. It would have the exact same effect over any single serial MIDI port. It's a reminder that our friends at Alesis, for all their cleverness and slick innovation, regularly make decisions to "keep it cheap" that come back to bite their users. Anyone who's been stung by the surface-mounted faders on the Studio 24 mixer OR the fade-to-black display on the D4 OR the "popamp" opamps in the 3630 limiters OR at least a dozen other nasty fails knows exactly what I'm talking about.

[macStuff]

i meant that its a bandaid solution in that its not a real serial port; its an emulated serial port; a solution in which data is still having to go thru usb; which is a packeted protocol; 

like i said i have no hands on experience but im glad that such a solution exists + has worked well enough to be deemed stable by you

which version do u have? USA-28X?
so OMS sees both ports perfectly i guess;

i cant believe the price of the SXPRO on ebay; chinese sellers trying to get 900$ for a serial addon pci card;
because they are hoping for someone who is using it on a factory or something, industrial uses, to break down
the people on this planet make me sick

[part12studios]

Damn it, the guy refunded the money.. he doesn't sell them anymore..  what a shame.. 

so that usb to serial device..  that seems reasonably priced.  anyone know if that would require drivers or do you think this would be a pnp type of device.  i could see it being pnp..

i'm going to also make a bid on that G4 stealth card.. i know he'll refuse but i wonder how long that's been out there waiting for someone to pay that much. 

[part12studios]

question, i have an actual usb to serial (9 pin)..  is it possible that there might be an adapter i could find that would go from the 9 pin PC serial to Mac serial?

[FdB]

Email headed your way...

[part12studios]

ok so FOR SCIENCE! I will try one of those $3 usb ps/2 serial devices and see how well they work.   they might

Also I've heard from FsB that Sythio might know more about this subject as well so I'm going to PM him to see if he might have some insight to share. 

[Protools5LEGuy]

Be careful. USB-PS2 AFAIK are different than USB-Serial...

Also there is USB-RS232...

[part12studios]

ok well it's going to get here around Jan 25th.. so we'll see where it works/fails..  it says OS9 compatible so I have to assume it would at

as for the USB-RS232, i saw some PS2 adapters to whatever you call "round serial" ports..  that go from 9pin trapezoid to round and round to trapezoid. 

I have a usb to RS232 already i could try and it's pretty old but not sure it's OS9 compatible.  I didn't buy it for a mac at the time.  I was using it with windows to talk to a LX200 PDA.. 

what do you think?  would adapters perhaps work with an RS232 to usb adapter and would they all be universal or vary greatly?

[macStuff]

Damn it, the guy refunded the money.. he doesn't sell them anymore..  what a shame.. 

wtf -why doesnt he take his website down then? im sorry but thats pretty STUPID
sorry it didnt work out
its a shame he didnt have more commitment to his own project

[macStuff]

dont waste your time
buy a usa-28x keyspan adapter
you can find them on ebay for the same price that u were going to pay for the jamport

[part12studios]

the only concern i have about usb/serial is if the OS will be nice enough to inform very old software that the serial can be reached through usb.  I don't know how sophisticated the OS is about making something like this seen as a native serial device.  Software written to use serial was made before USB was a thing.

Has anyone used one of these usb adapters for MIDI applications?  I don't need it for keyboard / mice / printing so know

[macStuff]

dude; you are talking to the most experienced people on os9 on the net;
we gave u the green light to grab the usa-28x
garyn just got thru giving you a review of how it is more than compatible (scrollup he said he used it with a studio 5 interface which was opcodes flagship interface)
just buy it already and move onto the next thing that matters
life is too short

http://web.archive.org/web/20020612052547/http://keyspan.com:16080/products/usb/usa28x/
http://web.archive.org/web/20020618053931/http://keyspan.com:16080/products/usb/usa28x/docs/macos869/swp/aCompatibility.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20020623041742/http://keyspan.com:16080/products/usb/USA28x/docs/macos869/swp/aMIDI.html

[GaryN]

question, i have an actual usb to serial (9 pin)..  is it possible that there might be an adapter i could find that would go from the 9 pin PC serial to Mac serial?

Probably almost certainly not. There is a MIDI timing protocol that must be accounted for that is not normally possible with simple adapters.

i meant that its a bandaid solution in that its not a real serial port; its an emulated serial port; a solution in which data is still having to go thru usb; which is a packeted protocol; 

like i said i have no hands on experience but im glad that such a solution exists + has worked well enough to be deemed stable by you

which version do u have? USA-28X?
so OMS sees both ports perfectly i guess;

OK I get your use of "bandaid". In that context it's 100% true. As I explained in my reasoning / non-reasoning to switch to the SX Pro, it was for that very reason: To "get out of" the USB subsystem entirely because it adds an unnecessary layer of complexity to the data stream.

But still, I lived with that for years without ill effect using the Keyspan USA-28X.
Actually, the biggest single pain-in-the-ass using the USB/serial has been tha damn USB connector. I HATE, no…  I F*&%#king HATE those things.
They are the WORST piece of shit excuse for a connector since…I can't even remember! Maybe the RCA phono plug…
I'm glad to have the SX Pro just to get rid of the USA "hanging" around in the cabling.

the only concern i have about usb/serial is if the OS will be nice enough to inform very old software that the serial can be reached through usb.  I don't know how sophisticated the OS is about making something like this seen as a native serial device.  Software written to use serial was made before USB was a thing.

Has anyone used one of these usb adapters for MIDI applications?  I don't need it for keyboard / mice / printing so know

I though I was very clear last time. This is a NON-issue. The USA-28 is invisible to both the computer and the device(es) it's connected to. It pretends to be the original printer and modem serial Mac ports so there is NO issue whatsoever with software etc.

Here's the single critical note regarding these: You must use the model USX-28 "X" Only the "X" has the MIDI timing mod (added clock chip) to pass MIDI data correctly. There are older, USA-28 units that will not work.

*There are also rev letters after the X: A thru G. These are irrelevant as far as MIDI goes - any of them will work. I have used a USA-28XA, a UAS-28XD and a USA-28XG. They all work exactly the same.

*There is also a Keyspan extension that must be installed that should be around here somewhere. It's still available on the Tripplite website under support/drivers but it requires some determination to find it.

[FdB]

Search parameters: “USA-28X Keyspan USB Twin Serial Adapter”

≥2 via eBay. 1@ $30.00 (New Jersey) - the other one @ $28.71 (Colorado). (First one w/ install disc.)

www.ebay.com/i/114054146978?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=114054146978&targetid=859829361278&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9023887&poi=&campaignid=6470742440&mkgroupid=88656158866&rlsatarget=pla-859829361278&abcId=1141156&merchantid=6296724&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxvvftJKJ5wIVyrzACh2bXQAPEAQYASABEgKgwPD_BwE

www.ebay.com/i/293298919057?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=293298919057&targetid=881485535474&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9023887&poi=&campaignid=2086088136&mkgroupid=88585792789&rlsatarget=pla-881485535474&abcId=1141016&merchantid=111899349&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxvvftJKJ5wIVyrzACh2bXQAPEAQYCiABEgKA8fD_BwE

And then, there’s always this… http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4198.msg28930.html#msg28930 

[GaryN]

Search parameters: “USA-28X Keyspan USB Twin Serial Adapter”

≥2 via eBay. 1@ $30.00 (New Jersey) - the other one @ $28.71 (Colorado). (First one w/ install disc.)

www.ebay.com/i/114054146978?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=114054146978&targetid=859829361278&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9023887&poi=&campaignid=6470742440&mkgroupid=88656158866&rlsatarget=pla-859829361278&abcId=1141156&merchantid=6296724&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxvvftJKJ5wIVyrzACh2bXQAPEAQYASABEgKgwPD_BwE

www.ebay.com/i/293298919057?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=293298919057&targetid=881485535474&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9023887&poi=&campaignid=2086088136&mkgroupid=88585792789&rlsatarget=pla-881485535474&abcId=1141016&merchantid=111899349&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxvvftJKJ5wIVyrzACh2bXQAPEAQYCiABEgKA8fD_BwE

And then, there’s always this… http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4198.msg28930.html#msg28930 

AARRGH!! SEE? Now there you go already Fury! This is exactly what I spent all that time typing about trying to prevent !

The first one in NJ with the disc and all is a USA-28XB. It's like new and being complete, the one to grab. It will handle MIDI.

The second one in CO is an older USX-28…… NO "X". It will NOT pass MIDI. DO NOT buy this!

As for http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4198.msg28930.html#msg28930 ………
That's referring to a driver for the DC-30 video capture card. I have NO idea why you listed it.

[FdB]

My apologies, but if one actually reads that linked post they might possibly note this: “Remaining card free to members…”  which refers to the then, still-remaining Keyspan SXPRO 4 port card… that no one spoke up for (originally offered in the post just above the one that I linked). The miro Video DC 30 card went to another member.

*One might also note the strike-through and the “Found a new home” notation for the video card in the quoted section?

AND, sorry ‘bout the 2nd listed eBay serial adapter (the non-X version) as often, we get in a hurry when trying to be helpful & sometimes… we quite simply misread or speed-read through things? Caleb’s name is now on the 4-port Keyspan card here IF he wants it after trying out a USA-28X Keyspan USB Twin Serial Adapter”.

I figured that being in the greater Boston area, that Caleb would probably go for the N.J. adapter anyway.
AND... isn't the CO listing also not noted as a KEYSPAN USA-28X? (But just not in the actual picture!)

[GaryN]

AND... isn't the CO listing also not noted as a KEYSPAN USA-28X? (But just not in the actual picture!)

You know, you're correct. My eye went immediately to the picture because I recognized it as an old non-X unit.
Odds are the pictured unit IS the one for sale and it's no good.
Typical fleabay stuff…

[macStuff]

honestly im really surprised that these companies didnt have anyone to criticize their naming nomenclature
like why choose names that are easily confused with each other? they coudl have called them usa-28 usa-29 usa-30

i feel like they purposely try to make things confusing to people unfamiliar with their products
to purposly make them buy the wrong thing so they have to buy it again

if thers any possible way someone could make a mistake with properly identifying a device - itll happen on ebay
thats for damn sure - where all idiots go to sell shit they dont understand