Author Topic: M-audio 410 AGAIN  (Read 1945 times)

Offline Andre Solomko

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M-audio 410 AGAIN
« on: January 11, 2020, 01:11:10 PM »
Dear fellows. I know a its beaten  to  death. ANYONE EVER HAD THIS THING WORK PROPERLY ON OS9? WHAT MACHINE WHAT DRIVER ETC....
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 03:58:07 PM by Andre Solomko »


Offline IIO

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2020, 06:19:47 PM »
it was one of the first cards i had after the audiomedia III and it worked mostly okay, with both soundmanager and ASIO.

i sometimes thought it makes problems in a certain application, but that could be wrong as well. it worked perfectly with cubase, sonixworx, peak, the tools of the time.

the first machine was a 7300, but i´ve tested it also in a digital audio dual 533 and in a 2001 QS.

there are cards which sound better... but it should work fine.


oops, wait i had a 44. different thing.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2020, 08:22:58 PM »
Of course  about firewire which is notorious. PCI was 44 but i may be wrong

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2020, 09:56:25 PM »
i have like 7 x 410 cards
the delta 410s are 2 analog in, 2 digital in / 8 analog out, 2 digital out (ie : 4 ins / 10 outs = 410)
44 didnt have 8 out

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2020, 10:00:37 PM »
Very well I stay correcred Anyway question was about FW.

macStuff

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2020, 10:01:36 PM »
download the driver and install it i posted it first post above

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2020, 10:07:54 PM »
Link is broken thank you. Before posting a question i tried v 1.0.1 and 1.0.4 anyway. Its a horrible phased  sound which was already described  here in some posts.

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2020, 11:10:34 PM »
if i were you id verify it works on another osx or windows computer before trying to get it to work in os9
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 01:10:22 AM by macStuff »

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2020, 03:08:00 AM »
Sure i did verify before asking.It works  at all range from Panther to High Sierra

Offline IIO

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2020, 12:37:52 PM »
Of course  about firewire which is notorious. PCI was 44 but i may be wrong

yeah its a PCI, thats why i pulled my experience report.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2020, 01:51:31 PM »
ОК let me start over: DID ANYONE SUCCEED. WITH Maudio Firewire 410 with OS9.2 IF YES WHAT DRIVER AND WHAT CONFIGURATION. There were 10replies but we did not move any further.PLEASE REPLY ONLY IF YOU HAD A REAL EXPERIENCE NOT HYPOTHETIC. THANKS..

Offline Mardeec

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2020, 03:48:15 PM »
Hi Andre,

I'm sure you've read the long thread in which GaryN and others helped me for weeks in trying to get a FW410 working with OS 9.2.2 on a G3 iMac.  My FW410 unit works fine in OS X and Windows, but never any success with OS 9.2.2.  I'll search through the forum every so often to see if someone's come up with solution, but I don't have high hopes.

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2020, 07:33:26 PM »
Thank you.. yes i found a thread and it doesn''t look promising. I am almost convinced about firmware theory..

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2020, 10:12:55 PM »
https://www.macintoshrepository.org/9571-m-audio-firewire-drivers-macos-9-
https://web.archive.org/web/20040114221437/http://www.m-audio.com:80/images/global/drivers/Firewire_410_v1.0.1_build3.bin
https://web.archive.org/web/20050309164352/http://www.m-audio.com:80/images/global/drivers/FWUni_OS9_1.0.4_install.bin
^^ FWUni_OS9_1.0.4_b42_install
did u guys try the drivers?

are u sure u were installing on macos9.22? (latest os version, not 9.2, 9.1, 9.0 etc)

did you read the manual? did you follow the directions?
https://www.fullcompass.com/common/files/5527-FireWire410Manual.pdf

have you been unplugging + replugging when the computer is on?
Quote
ATTENTION: You must shut down your computer any time you wish to
connect or disconnect the FireWire 410 from the system. Failure to do so
may cause damage to your computer’s or FireWire 410’s FireWire ports.

did u try to connect the firewire 410 before installing the drive?
Quote
NOTE: Do NOT connect the FireWire 410 to your computer until you have run the installer application and shut down the system.

did you find the ASIO driver file after installing the driver?
did you copy the ASIO file to the folder of your application?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 10:27:47 PM by macStuff »

Offline IIO

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2020, 01:10:54 AM »
Hi Andre,

I'm sure you've read the long thread in which GaryN and others helped me for weeks in trying to get a FW410 working with OS 9.2.2 on a G3 iMac.  My FW410 unit works fine in OS X and Windows, but never any success with OS 9.2.2.  I'll search through the forum every so often to see if someone's come up with solution, but I don't have high hopes.

who would not remember this thread. which was mostly full of assumptions, too.

finalizing in a claim in caps lock that there wouldnt be any OS9 drivers.^^
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2020, 05:49:32 PM »
Also you forgot to mention Quicktime v6.03... i just wonder where else you could install ASIO drivers. I think i clearly said that i have phased sound on low level. Anyway that means that host application has detected device. Otherwise you can not have any sound, can you? And there is nothing OS9 specific in manual. Exactly the same procedure even on High Sierra.SO QUESTION REMAINS: IS HERE ANYBODY WHO SUCCCEED WITH 410 firewire on OS9?

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2020, 04:17:10 AM »
to say that it just doesnt work is obviously not correct
the product was reviewed in many differnt magazine publications
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/m-audio-firewire-410
obviously it worked at that point in time and should be able to work now
if it didnt work in os9 they would have reported that fact as the article above
explicitly mentions macos 9.2 and the box itself says 9.2.2 right on it so obviously it did work


unless there actually was a firmware update that most people used that rendered the box incompatible
but i cant find the existance of any firmware update for the firewire 410 that could have ruined os9 compatibility

if the firmware file cant be found; then its still possible that there was seperate batches of these interfaces made at different times back in the 2004-2005-2006 time period resulting in different versions of firmware direct from factory, but all of this is speculation

are u powering the device with its original Power supply? or powering the device from its Firewire connection? i just read that the box claims it can be powered via the firewire connection.

does anyone have a copy of the original driver cd? (photo attached)
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 04:32:48 AM by macStuff »

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2020, 10:58:28 AM »
I have seen short message *updating firmware* while installing Sierra driver. (In reality its Lion driver but can be done on Sierra, even Mojave.) So I am positive that firmware update is embedded in driver. That explains a lot. But probably its not true about OS9..driver was meant to work with factory firmware.

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2020, 01:55:16 PM »
the only way to know for sure is to buy a brand new unused firewire 410;
if all this firmware update theory is in fact true; then it would/should be the same case for the other model, the firewire 1814 interface;
but ive not seen anyone have any problems with that model (that i can recall off the top of my head anyway)

honestly tho; why not just buy a first generation Motu 828 and be happy ;)

is the firmware updating driver an official m-audio driver?
or is it this 3rd party driver for osx? http://maudio.boards.net/thread/4/firewire-working-capitan-install-package

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2020, 02:25:27 PM »
Couldn't agree more. It's not a problem, I thought it could be a fancy to have a device working through all Mac OS starting from 9, Of course its an  unofficial driver, but I don't think its any different from official. And certainly not about firmware.  All trick about disabling SIP and running some tricks, forcing macOS to load a kext. BTW  828 marc2  works well on OS9. Tested and tried.

Offline IIO

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2020, 03:08:20 PM »
ОК let me start over: DID ANYONE SUCCEED

the more you discuss with people who only speculate, the more they will continue with that. ^^

just get the drivers i´ve posted and see if it works for you.

in case the speculation with the OSX firmware update to break OS9 functionality is true, there is probably nothing you can do*.
that begins with the issue that m-audio never supported the firmware anyway - they are all from midiman.

the manual shows how to install

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/456511/M-Audio-Firewire-410.html?page=15#manual

*) but that´s just a speculation. :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline GaryN

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2020, 03:27:59 PM »
to say that it just doesnt work is obviously not correct
the product was reviewed in many differnt magazine publications
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/m-audio-firewire-410
obviously it worked at that point in time and should be able to work now
if it didnt work in os9 they would have reported that fact as the article above
explicitly mentions macos 9.2 and the box itself says 9.2.2 right on it so obviously it did work
I hate to nitpick…BUT: A careful reading of that SOS review reveals the author was testing the unit on a PC and only a PC.
His comments that the unit worked on Mac 9.2.2 were only parroting what was on the box.

That said, M-Audio DID clearly say the damn thing would work under OS 9.2.2 and provided a driver extension to do so.
So, why can't the best minds around here, who collectively know as much or more about this crap as anybody anywhere, get anything out of these things?

LOGICAL POSSIBLE REASONS

1. The OS9 driver doesn't work to begin with
   This, while possible, seems unlikely. It would (even by M-Audio) have been addressed in an update and that update would be floating around somewhere where it could be found.
Brother Macstuff alone has ferreted out so much "lost" software that the mind boggles.
Nonetheless, I did post back in 2018 that:
"I just have to note for the record that: If you search "Firewire 410" on the Forum, you will find an endless series of posts complaining how the 410 simply won't work in OS9 because they never bothered to release a decent driver for it."

2. The unit(s) in question are damaged
    This, sadly may be a very real possibility. Here's what we DO know: A) M-Audio made a very big point about not hot-plugging these things, and made it repeatedly in the instructions. They were adamant that you should expect damage from either connecting or disconnecting them with the computer on. Macstuff pointed this out to RalphieBoy waay back in the beginning of this saga.
B: A large number of them - as with all "old" hardware - were/are floating around without the box, instructions or installer CD. Macstuff ALSO pointed this out in the same post: that there were lots of them with no materials and that a depressing number of people think that reading instructions is just an optional suggestion anyway.
IF this is what's happening, it reveals a damnable, idiotic, basic "you should KNOW better" error on M-Audio's part. EVERY engineer KNOWS people DO NOT read manuals. To release a product that can be rendered un-useable by even accidentally plugging or unplugging it while on is something you learn NOT to EVER do in engineering 101. There is NO excuse for it…PERIOD!

3. BOTH of the above
   THIS, would not surprise me at all.
What we're lacking is a logical scientific test to narrow the possibilities down. This would require someone with a known working dual-boot computer (preferably a G4 desktop where there are NO possible Firewire port issues), a 410, and the installer CD.
What I would want to see first is if that unit would be found to work in OSX and not work in OS9. That would immediately indicate a driver/extension fault while simultaneously eliminating a damaged unit. I would also love to see the contents of an original CD. There may well be ASIO issues not even discussed so far.

Whatever happens, it's clear that something out of the ordinary is going on here. A LOT of people have snagged one of these from one place or another and found they can't make them work. It would be enlightening to hear even ONE success story.

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2020, 03:31:21 PM »
OK Let me start over: NONE OF DRIVERS POSTED HERE DO WORK. PROBLEM REMAINS. Device tested on OS9.2.2. os4.11.12.6 13.6 I    am not a first day married and I do know about PSU, firewire, ASIO, sound manager , shutting down etc. and I can read. So  question remains; IF ANYBODY SUCCEED WItH DAMN DEVICE IN OS9. I mean  in real life, in this reincarnation, on Earth, ;D etc.

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2020, 03:35:15 PM »
Gary I  just noticed your replica and yes I have tested it on dual boot machine. Works well on Tiger, not working on OS922 Works great on Lenovo notebook with Sierra Hi Sierra dual boot.
So lets live alone any hardware related bets.

Offline FdB

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M-audio 410
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2020, 05:12:42 PM »
Is it a FireWire / power requirement problem?
Might want to review the entire page below…
and maybe no help here, but wondering if
anyone has tried other power source
under OS 9.2.2? Just a thought.
(Eliminate possible variables.)
Even if it does work under OS X.

From: www.soundonsound.com/reviews/m-audio-firewire-410
This Must Be The Place

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2020, 05:33:18 PM »
Well i dont have another 12v adapter to try. Maybe someone can try. I use 600mv and do not have original one which should be 1a. Anyway i barely can see how come the same psu works on the same comp  with OSX (mdd) and no luck in OS9'  Usually when you choose psu you want a double from what you really need...but its interesting. But i more believe in firmware theory

Offline FdB

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M-audio 410
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2020, 06:38:08 PM »
One would assume that power under OS X and OS 9 would be the same for the firewire port. But given the initial mentions concerning working with “most of the newer 1394A’s - but not with the older 1394" (mentioned above)… AND also considering little changes that Apple often enacted without announcement… thought this might be worth a test? Contacted Mardeec to see if maybe he will test his M-Audio 410 under this scenario.

I too am inclined to think firmware. But this is a simple possibility - easy to test & to possibly quickly eliminate.
This Must Be The Place

Offline GaryN

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2020, 11:06:46 PM »
Gary I  just noticed your replica and yes I have tested it on dual boot machine. Works well on Tiger, not working on OS922 Works great on Lenovo notebook with Sierra Hi Sierra dual boot.
So lets live alone any hardware related bets.
Thank you Andre! Believe it or not, I think you're the first person who has been able to do this.
I seem to recall you said you actually get sound in OS9 but it's "phased" or something equally distasteful.

Anyway, with this set of conditions confirmed, I'm moving solidly into the "driver sucks" camp. Wishful thinking guesses like "maybe it just needs a PSU in OS9 but nowhere else" are just that: Desperate wishful thinking. Unfortunately, this is the worst-case scenario. If the extension is defective, hope for a solution is fading fast. We're NOW at:

* You possibly need some exact / correct combination of OS9 System Extensions or it won't work. However, we don't know what that might be. I DO know there are the "Firewire Enabler" and Firewire Support" Extensions (both version 2.8.7). I think those install only when the computer has FW so a System file from elsewhere could maybe find those lacking. OR maybe there's a conflict with one of them and it's just the opposite. It would be a sick thing if you had to yank the Apple FW enabler to get the 410 driver to work but… Less likely suspects are the Quicktime Firewire DV Enabler & Support that get installed with QT 6.0.3. You will have to test with each one enabled and DISabled to verify.

* Then there's ASIO - my personal favorite pain in the ass. Most / all DAWs need it. It's the intermediary between DAW software and the computer hardware and its ports. It was a then-brand-new 3rd-party (Steinberg) bit that was very loosy-goosy insofar as since it wasn't an official Apple "thing", it was not always well-adhered to by everybody. New DAW versions and new computers often required ASIO "corrections" and updates. This possibility is why I have a next experiment in the last paragraph.

* Lastly, there's the obvious: The stupid driver simply doesn't work properly, it never did and they didn't do a damn thing about it because the entire world was well into embracing OSX and nobody cared because either nobody (or not enough somebodies) complained. While certainly possible, one would think that it must have at least worked well enough to past beta and the more likely problem is a previous one above. I know, that's what you get for thinking…

My next experiment would be to start fresh with a clean OS 9.2.2 and use the Installer CD to install the driver and app exactly as instructed. Then, inventory everything to establish exactly what gets installed and where. Eventually, as more data is cleanly and accurately compiled, something may (or not) begin to point to an answer. If NOT, you'll at least be able to conclude the driver software is defective with some degree of confidence. If there's ASIO, it has to be checked with the ASIO file in the folder with the DAW or "loose" in the Extensions Folder. If there's more than one ASIO on the Installer CD, they ALL must be tested individually. Note there almost certainly should NOT be more than one ASIO floating around at one time.

I'm taking a quick ResEdit look at the 410 installer file. If I find anything else, I'll post it.

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2020, 04:54:26 AM »
Gary thanks for a detailed input. OK , just not to waste your time: I said that sound is phased and means 1).device is detected  but not usable what actually means *driver sucks*. Besides there is a crazy meter thing which was also described on this respected forum.2).obviously i also tried it on a fresh install . Results are equal with sound manager and ASIO   with QT 5 and 6 etc. Meaning all possible shamanistic passes were executed.Perhaps one thing is missing: I should sacrifice a  black lamb perhaps. So we have left: conspiracy theory that m~audio posted a broken driver..lets call it a Moon hoax 2. Firmware theory 3.psu still remains. In this case we also can read a manual again.trying to find a hidden meaning a-la Holy Bible. Document. Written 20 years ago by unknown apostol. Ask m-audio..is the same chance like ask a Roman pope about Lords favourite football team
« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 05:16:21 AM by Andre Solomko »

macStuff

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2020, 05:58:23 AM »
requires 12V adapter.. center positive
model no AD-121AN

samplerate could also be a likely cause/factor
how does one adjust samplerate on os9?
did you even bother to open the driver's control panel after its installed?

Offline IIO

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2020, 06:01:01 AM »
Perhaps one thing is missing: I should sacrifice a  black lamb perhaps.

that´s it!

this works for me in a lot of situations.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2020, 07:11:14 AM »
Dear  Macstuff !if I am writing about  crazy meters  it probably means that I DID BOTHER to open a control panel. So do you have such a device ? Did you ever try to use it under OS9?  LET ME START OVER: only real experience please.  YES I DO USE A PSU WITH CENTRE POSITIVE. Its just a DC you know. Why we have to go over the same thing? What exactly happe if you would use some other DC adapter, not like At your picture?

Offline GaryN

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2020, 01:56:24 PM »
Andre… Although there are those on this Forum who will be amazed I'm doing this, I would like to try to be the group Gandhi for a second and defend macstuff. The venerable macstuff, myself and a few others occasionally fall victim to what I can only call internet burnout. In trying to be helpful and respond to folks asking for help, we run into a depressingly large number of people who: 1, Don't know a switch from a knob; 2.  Have never attempted to read a manual; 3.Think stuff should "just work" because that's what that guy Steve said; 4. Are utterly incapable of thinking logically; 5. Cannot follow instructions; 6. Will not follow instructions; 7. Embody every other aggravating characteristic you can think of.

This does tend to sometimes cause one to assume (I know…) that the person you're currently dealing with is part of that group and treat them with short shrift. (Can't believe I got to use that term…) Some of us have less patience and composure than others. That's not an excuse, it's just a aspect of human behavior.

That said, I respectfully beg Mr. Stuff to consider that Andre's responses in this thread clearly indicate he has a pretty solid grip on the issue and will rightfully feel insulted if/when he is addressed like he's a dolt.

This particular problem is a particularly frustrating one. The fact that it has gone on this long without a solution being found may well indicate there is no solution to be found, that the issue is in software and there's no practical way to remedy it. There are many, many devices that work well in OSX but not in OS ≤9. There are far fewer that claim to be OS9 compatible but aren't. This may well be one of those.

Still working on it…

OMMMMMM………

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2020, 02:32:39 PM »
Thank you Gary. Since its hard to believe that M-audio released a non working  driver, but let's face it. The most reasonable thing was said but macStuff anyway. Mystery will be  resolved as soon as we find somewhere unused card with a virgin firmware. For me  it's  more a question of curiosity not such a big need

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2020, 04:07:33 PM »
... you guys are strange and take things way too personally, interpretting offense where none exists ...


im simply adding information to the thread to consider;
because i know that things that seem simple can become very complicated very quickly with the right amount of variables; if what i have to say is not helpful so be it; but it may be helpful to someone else;
this is the internet; people read other peoples threads and collect info; there might be someone else reding this thread trying to find out what power adapter the thing needs; so i added a photo;
its what i have done for many years on this forum and its a big reason for the amt of views that this forum has ever got because of the factual information that ive added here;

 i dont know you and you dont know me from adam, so for you to get upset over anything ive said, says more about your own frustrations and aggravations in life then it does about me, i require no "defense" because there never was any "offence" made or intended;

and yes i am of the opinion that it says it works on macos9 on the box; trust me; it does (or DID) work on macos9; companies dont put false info on boxes; why? because they dont want to have to deal with customers calling them up and saying the same shit for the next 25 years straight; regardless of whether or not the reason has been discovered; there obviously  IS A REASON that its not working

my friend who lives nearby has a firewire 410; i really wish he would lend it to me so i could try to see if i could get it to work; anyway; but his unit has definately been used on later operating systems so if later drivers are indeed to blame for changing the firmware of the unit thats really unfortunate; could the original firmware be saved/cloned and re-written to device that had its firmware updated? not sure; i dont know  that much about firmware via firewire

anyway im done responding to this thread
i have no intention of having someone type at me in capital letters like a baby just because im trying to brainstorm diff possibilities;
good day 'gentlemen'

btw tell Pascal Rioux that Chris Nova says hello

Offline GaryN

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2020, 04:53:57 PM »
Thank you Gary. Since its hard to believe that M-audio released a non working  driver, but let's face it. The most reasonable thing was said but macStuff anyway. Mystery will be  resolved as soon as we find somewhere unused card with a virgin firmware. For me  it's  more a question of curiosity not such a big need
Actually, it's a frustrating thing to have such a unit – which would be a fabulous thing to have working for all of the people who run OS9 DAWs on later G4s and such – dangling promise in your face and then giving you the finger.
Now might be a good time to mention that as far as I know (with the possible exception of the FW Audiophile, but don't count on it)
the exact same failure extends to the FW 1814 and all other Firewire-connected M-Audio interfaces.

Meanwhile, here we are on Martin Luther King day, one of the greatest non-violent proponents of peace the world has ever known.
…and here I am…1/1000000 of him.

But just like him, I still get shot for promoting peace too.  8)

Offline FdB

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Fun since 2015 (at least)
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2020, 06:37:38 PM »

I'm BATMAN!

« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 06:49:32 PM by FdB »
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Offline FdB

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2020, 06:53:36 PM »
For those of you possibly new to these on-going & yet still unresolved M-Audio 410 problems…
refer to this entire thread* from 2015: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1933.0

*Among countless others.
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Offline IIO

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2020, 06:58:24 PM »
5 years of assumptions, under 5 (or 7?) different names.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2020, 07:34:08 PM »
I will try tomorrow if my Audiophile FW (that I bought for my GHz PowerBook 17) still works on 9 (It worked with a FW 800 to 400 cable) after been run on Lion+Yosemite+Win10

I remember that just after the install in Mac OS 9 I tryed an FW Solo (That works with the same drivers since Panther IIRC) and wasnt recognized as a Solo.

I hope to bring more light to the subject soon.
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline GaryN

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2020, 10:47:16 PM »
At this point, all I would ask is for everybody PLEASE don't start yet another Forum War over this and also please don't add further assumptions or "I think I remember"s or "I used to have one and I think it maybe"s.
They're NOT helpful and only serve to further frustrate and confuse the issue.

At some point (and that point may be very near indeed) it will be time to just chuck the entire subject because the collective time & effort expended has yielded ZERO. We seem to be no closer to solving this than we were 5 years ago. With everything everyone has put into this, by now we could have pooled our loose change, found an ex-M-Audio programmer and gotten the damn extension re-written…

I'm just sayin'  8)

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2020, 11:52:22 PM »
Well said Gary...Just in case I would like to apologise for Community (and Chris particularly) since I didn't have intension to start any wars, just I  wanted  to keep this thread informative and assumption-free.We are walking fossils here, trying to revive a 20 years old systems,  which are a Stone Age in terms of modern computer enterprise. For me it's just an opposite- a good example that modern DAW didn't move much further since 2002. It's all about bells and whistles, not a real movement.Besides running OS9 we should feel ourselves younger.
Now about driver:
Version 1.0. is "alpha" You can read it at control panel. 1.0.4 is different because they incorporated all installers in on universal, called M-audio FW. First version was called 410 installer or something. Word "alpha" disappeared. You can easily check by yourself. What it means:
They all were released after OS9 was pronounced dead by Holy Steven, true manipulator, so legally they were not obliged to support OS9 development. Someone can believe that they could not release non-working drivers. Well they could and most likely they did. Even if a firmware theory is correct, it doesn't cancel a fact that M-audio was always CHEAP in all means. It possibly means also that they simply abandoned drivers on beta-stage.
As I said for me personally it's more about curiosity, not a desperate need. My real Pro tools rig is a 24/ 2" multitrack. But...could be nice to have a thing working. I bought mine for 35 euros, and it's pretty much what I am willing to spend for a digital audio anyway. another 40 for a MDD which was a 2000 price tag in 2000
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 08:57:58 AM by Andre Solomko »

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2020, 12:32:02 PM »
To be a classic means you have to keep it as it is. No mods, no swing with modern OSes

If I use my  FW AP after been booted on Lion and Yosemite and Win 10, our loved Mac OS 9 looks sad at the floor telling:

"What have you done me? What did I do to you to try a newer OS?

Divorce!!

Go with that young OS !! Someone will still appreciate me !!!"
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2020, 12:35:43 PM »
Card works almost flawless on panther ....

I tried to reboot to panther with the FW 800/400 cable still conected and didnt want to boot...

I had to disconnect the cable
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2020, 01:03:17 PM »
I had to use another configuration for the tests about the FW AP

A FW 800 to 400 cable as DieHard told us.

That config worked last year but after updating to latest Win 10 and MacTell have screwed the chance to run Mac OS 9 on it
 again.

So, it seems Chriss is right. Running it in modern OS updates firmware and the card refuses to work again in Mac OS 9.

I speculate that I could still run it in OS9 after a guy sold to me. He used that in Win Xp so maybe Win XP drivers still doesnt modernize the firmware.

I runned the card for some days with Logic 6.xx on OS 9 with the PB, and installed all drivers after that on Panther+Tiger+Leo.

Cant remember if after all those PowerPC installs I could still use it in 9. But I guess It worked at that time.

From experience I can tell you that my focusrite LS56 loose the chance to be connected to PowerPC after a try in Yosemite or WIn 64. Those OS updated the firmware and had to contact to the folks of focusrite to send a firmware downgrader.

That had to be run on 10.6 and that of course happended when all my hackintosh were corrupted and at a time I had to choose if I went Win 7/8 64 or keep using 10.6... So I bought another drive to try another hackintosh attempt. To summarize 2 months without my main DAW.
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline FdB

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2020, 01:41:00 PM »
Well, looks like original install discs might become a premium item.
If one can figure out how to downgrade firmware... or wipe it...
and then re-install the old?
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Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2020, 02:51:53 PM »
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2976.0.html
Right below this thread in another where idea of firmware was first pronounced. Also someone reported a success here but strangely disappeared. Actually ProToolsLEs experiment is not very scientific, but I maybe wrong.
1. Audiophile and 410 are different cards, and it also means they might have a different power consumption.
2. Can you tell more about first screenshot, taken from OS9? It looks like a crazy meter thing to me. Besides driver is 1.0 and last one is universal driver 1.0.4
3. I  can easily swap between intel Hackintosh  and  and PPC Tiger machines (MDD) so it means at least that firmware upgrade does not rely  on architecture.
3. Works fine on Panther (I have a triple-boot) with driver 1.8.2
So we need 410 owners input and for  not any other for now

Offline IIO

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2020, 06:38:51 PM »
Well, looks like original install discs might become a premium item.

on the CD  is nothing more than on the online installer.

it is a very bad habit of many hw vendors not to give you an "original firmware reinstaller app" (at as least as windows app) for a product.

given that the midiman firewire cards came out 2002 - when OS9 as well as OSX were both used on the same machine by many people - it sounds like a joke that the later firmware destroys the OS9 compatibilty. and i dont remember now... but i have heard about some other products with similar problems.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 07:54:00 PM by IIO »
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- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline teroyk

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2020, 04:52:33 AM »
does anyone have a copy of the original driver cd? (photo attached)

My driver CD looks very different it is orange white. Left text: Driver cd, down text: M-Audio (and W and M, in circles)
But that driver doesn't help for that firmware problem. File on CD is "Firewire 410 v1.0.1 build3"
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline Mardeec

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Re: M-audio 410 AGAIN
« Reply #50 on: February 14, 2020, 12:11:59 PM »
I have the “original driver cd” (FireWire Series Driver Software version 110504) and the M-Audio Driver CD version 120803.  I’ve attached photos and the list of OS9 drivers on each CD.

CD 120803 is available in the Audio/MIDI Interface Drivers board (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?board=180.0), listed as “M-Audio Anthology (Complete Set of all M-Audio Drivers & Utilities for Mac OS)” as is the M-Audio Firewire 410 v1.0.1 (Build 3) driver that’s contained on the CD. 

I’m checking with DieHard to see if it’s possible to make the entire 110504 CD available in the Audio/MIDI Interface Drivers board.

I recently purchased an FW410 the eBay seller described as “never connected to a computer,” but when I tried to use it with OS9, I got the usual symptoms of the OS X firmware update (crazy meters, empty firmware and bootloader fields on the About tab, etc.).  The seller is a 2nd hand store operator, and I doubt if he knows the history of the unit. The 110504 CD was included with the unit, which I’ll send back to the seller under his 30 day return policy.

Edit: Sorry, I didn't realize the photos of the CDs were so large!  I couldn't find a way to replace them with smaller versions.



« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 12:41:55 PM by Mardeec »