Author Topic: OK, what happened, Apple engineers designed Laptops in 1998 that still work...  (Read 1940 times)

Offline DieHard

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Ancient apple hardware still works, yet, they can't seem to get any longevity out of the whole macbook pro line...

I have been watching Louis since he started the channel, and I forgot about this gem that walks thru "Apple Failure" memory lane

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8</a>
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 01:36:01 PM by DieHard »

Offline GaryN

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Why does watching this make me feel like I'm married to an abuser???

Offline FdB

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Dunno.
Had two recent repair requests on macbook pros
(from out there on the left coast).
You guys keep 'em out there.

Not for my big fingers. No thanks.
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macStuff

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ive never had any problem (like those detailed in rossmans video) with my macbookpros ever.

the people that have those things happen to them are in my opinion overusing them; putting strenuous overload on machines used by people who misinterpreted the "PRO" in "macbookpro" -- they cant be used to play video games etc. honestly these are most likely people that never used a mac prior to OS X and have no concept what a mac is truly used for; ie: thinking, doing, creating, ie: people who just use them as if it was a gaming machine which it never has been ever in the history of all Macintosh...

even if u did have an alienware gaming laptop you still  cant use a laptop the way people use desktop machines
desktop machines the gpu fails + u replace it.. in a macbookpro you are out the entire investment pretty much
it makes no sense; even back in the 2000s people didnt do as much with their laptops as people do now; finalcut pro etc rendering 3d etc the demands have all skyrocketed and people stille xpect this to all come frm a less than 1 inch thick laptop

the earlier machines that never fail had graphics chipsets that really didnt have the ability to overheat by much and lower voltage/speed ram that wasnt capable of generating such heat similar to the way u dont see any old DOS machines that died, because their cpus didnt even need a heatsink for the most part any 386 ibm pc still runs to this day, without even requiring a heatsink

companies always selling products by convincing people that technology has moved so much forward even when it truely hasnt; they will find a way to make you believe that it has, strongly enough to get another 1-2000$ out of you which is why for the most part ive survived the last 6-8 years still using socket 775 + intel core 2 duo machines; still use my 2008 imac, my 2010 mbp, and only got my first i7 cpu in the last 2 weeks. seriously considering a ryzen/radeon system after my haswell/kepler hackintosh
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 02:36:43 AM by macStuff »

Offline GaryN

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I've had an 2008 A1260 with a bad keyboard that I never got up the ambition to replace - even after I bought a replacement kbd. The thought of tearing the entire thing apart to get to the 50-odd keyboard screws and then reverse everything was just too much.

I have an 2012-ish A1286 with a bad GPU too.

Come to think of it though, I have at least a few G4 A1106 around here too. I think they go behind my racks and multiply.
I need to lock up the power bricks…

Offline IIO

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love the video.
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Offline DieHard

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ive never had any problem (like those detailed in rossmans video) with my macbookpros ever.

I have seen everything in his video multiple times, Chris, you are very lucky, many "average" users that do NOT abuse their macbooks come in all the time with dead machines. 

Only Mac book airs are low powered enough to run at reasonable temps, they run cooler and do not die as othen as macbook pros; from Titanium and up, many laptops get damn HOT after only 2 or 3 hours on; so... if you do music recording or video editing, multiply your chances for video artifacts or death at least double.  Compare that with HP elitebooks, and probooks, and they run at least 30 degrees cooler.  Heat is the killer.  Almost every 2008/2009 macbook pro that comes in for SSD upgrade or RAM, has "heat cracks" all over the black hinge cover from nuclear exhaust.  It amazes me that for the price of macbook pros they have never been able to make a unit that comes even close to lasting half the age you can get out of a G3 Powerbook.  I have never seen, and I mean NEVER seen a G3 Powerbook or earlier die of heat damage or an inherit design flaw.  Apple does not engineer for long life anymore; that is just a fact at this point.

Mac Minis run much cooler than laptops, but it is rare to get a nice fast dual quad core in the mini wold; many are dual core i5s and even dual core i7s which suck when you need cores for Video/Audio.

So... the best Mac ?  Even made ?  That is intel ?  You already guessed it, a used Mac Pro cheese grater, even one from 2008 (8 Core) geeks good enough to do many many Audio tracks and more than enough video lanes.  Cost today... about $100 bucks you will find them, invest another $200 in an SSD and OWC PCIe SSD Card and BAM, a great machine.  Many Mac Pro 1,1 2,1 and 3,1 are still alive today and some are even ewasted.  Even the 1,1 2006 machine can be made into an 8 core for less than $60 and it will geekbench past a 2014 Core i5 (dual core) mini and you can get it up to El Cap with a firmware update and $25 Graphics card.

If you need a laptop, many "hacintosh" laptops are at 90% functionality, but are not the easiest to get going; although, every year they get easier and easier, they will outlast Mac hardware by far and cost only 20 to 45% of the macbook

Offline FdB

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I will not go out into the garage and begin cheese grater projects.
I will not go out into the garage and begin cheese grater projects.
I will not go out into the garage and begin cheese grater projects.
I will not go out into the garage and begin cheese grater projects.
I will not go out into the garage and begin cheese grater projects.


Thanks DieHard! ???
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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ive never had any problem (like those detailed in rossmans video) with my macbookpros ever.

So... the best Mac ?  Even made ?  That is intel ?  You already guessed it, a used Mac Pro cheese grater, even one from 2008 (8 Core) geeks good enough to do many many Audio tracks and more than enough video lanes.  Cost today... about $100 bucks you will find them, invest another $200 in an SSD and OWC PCIe SSD Card and BAM, a great machine.  Many Mac Pro 1,1 2,1 and 3,1 are still alive today and some are even ewasted.  Even the 1,1 2006 machine can be made into an 8 core for less than $60 and it will geekbench past a 2014 Core i5 (dual core) mini and you can get it up to El Cap with a firmware update and $25 Graphics card.


The Mac Pro 1.1/2.1 to reach El Capitan has to have a newer graphics cards and memory modules over 2 Gigabytes. I used the Greg Hutkay mods image but it was unstable with my  8 1 Gbyte modules.

I have been almost a decade using Core2Quad hackintosh in Snow Leopard and with the Mac Pro 1.1 I am enjoying Lion more than Snow Leopard. Just for the graphics cards from PC can be used there (7300GT sucks). It was the last Steve Jobs quallity approved Mac OS. Toast 15 still works there and uses CUDA.

With the MP 3.1 you could install a RADEON and use more modern than Capitan OS.

Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

macStuff

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Chris, you are very lucky, many "average" users that do NOT abuse their macbooks come in all the time with dead machines. 

maybe thats because i only ever had the 2010 MacBookAir (MacbookAir3,2 https://everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook-air/specs/macbook-air-core-2-duo-1.86-13-late-2010-specs.html)  and the mid-2010 Macbook Pro (Macbookpro7,1 https://everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/specs/macbook-pro-core-2-duo-2.4-aluminum-13-mid-2010-unibody-specs.html)

perhaps these models were less error prone?

i still never owned a mac pro model; if i ever come across one already upgraded + fully equipped id probably pull the trigger; but really that option is looking antiquated compared to spending that money on a radeon + ryzen build that supports all the latest usb/sata standards and many PCI-e lanes

diehard: thinkpad laptops whats the consensus on those?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 02:51:51 AM by macStuff »

Offline Jubadub

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Louis is absolutely excellent for most topics. And entertaining. Definitely a very recommendable channel.

I, too, wondered about this shift in quality of Apple hardware, almost coinciding with the Intel switch. I look at how glorious the Mac mini G4 is, running as we speak, then I look at the internal design on the latest """""Mac""""" mini (IBM PC mini, rather). Even if it didn't have all those thermal throttling issues, which it does, it is beyond unserviceable. And people pay a fortune for these. Absolutely ridiculous situation, but that's the Apple of today, and the Apple of since more or less a decade back.

Hopefully they will run cooler again with the ARM switch, but the serviceability is probably gone forever. Let's hope the product quality will rise back to what it was, too, but we shouldn't hold our breaths.

My best and most reliable Intel "Mac" is really a Samsung RV420 laptop.

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ARM switch - here we go again;
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/apple-mac-arm-cpus-2020-intel,38668.html
apparently this june WWDC will be seeding out the developer kits for software ports to ARM
scary because this time theres no Steve jobs to make sure they dont totally f**k it up
(steves best skillset, yelling at people to fix shit, lol)

i really dont get it though, what the hell is the difference between an ipad + iphone + a mac now?
why homogenize everything? and make it all the same? i dont get it, mobile keeps screwing over the desktop world; it happened first to flash, then web browsers, now it will be all the rest of the software. sigh
and the cpu aswell; might aswell just kill off the desktop completely and sell only tablets

if only they would have just licensed the os to run on different platforms and hardware..
but no, they hold it for ransom and make you buy their crappy hardware just so you can run the os
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 04:53:05 PM by FdB »

Offline GaryN

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i really dont get it though, what the hell is the difference between an ipad + iphone + a mac now?
why homogenize everything? and make it all the same?
This is kinda like an orgasm. Someone can describe it to you all day long, but until you actually feel it…

When you actually have all late-enough models of Apple-atia all running the proper OS'es etc. something intriguing really does happen. You see a friend, she waves her iPhone at yours and suddenly there's a XXX pic on yours; You go home, you see stuff on your laptop or desktop and a single click sends it to your iPad to read later on the toilet; The 24/96 recording you made with the Zoom stereo mic stuck on your iPhone instantly appears on your desktop for importing into your DAW so you can edit it, sync it to the video clips you shot last week with the same iPhone then post the result on YT or wherever so everybody can see and hear it on their iPhones and on and on. Everything, as they say, "just works".

Well, usually anyway…

Admittedly, when it does all work, it's really, really cool. The down side is there's an enormous amount of baggage that goes with all of it. The fails Rossman talks about that they skate out of repairing under warranty; the constant SOFTware "upgrades" than somehow ultimately lead to required HARDware upgrades that obsolete everything you already paid for yada yada. But hey, you DO get to keep buying the latest and the greatest that do everything but make coffee and hold your dick when you pee. Whoa… I can see it now:  The iPee.

The only apparent solution? Buy Apple stock.  APPL is at 311.34 today.

Offline DieHard

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Well, usually anyway…

Admittedly, when it does all work, it's really, really cool. The down side is there's an enormous amount of baggage that goes with all of it. The fails Rossman talks about that they skate out of repairing under warranty; the constant SOFTware "upgrades" than somehow ultimately lead to required HARDware upgrades that obsolete everything you already paid for yada yada. But hey, you DO get to keep buying the latest and the greatest that do everything but make coffee and hold your dick when you pee. Whoa… I can see it now:  The iPee.

Yes... some things are "Very cool" like tracking my iphone text/pic messages with "messages" on the desktop and then using the desktop "Preferences/keybord/text" to create awesome 2 paragraph answers with text substitution of a few simple characters... so I can define "#acs" and my text substitution can literally send an entire company intro with address, contact info, and more via the desktop messages and it looks like I sent a meaningful and long text from my phone

The downside :(
The second you use an apple ID on a desktop Mac and login to the "icloud" section in preferences (not the store in Apps), it will propagate many unknown processes in the background and definitely impact performance while "syncing" your life and sometimes create havoc.
Apple "contacts" is the worst offender... the best way to sync contacts is to logon to the icloud server via a browser and make all contact additions and changes directly... propagates to the phone almost instantly, while "contacts" can freeze up a mac if you have a lot of them

macStuff

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thats exactly why i never use those types of apps... ie: apple contacts etc
i have one entry in my apple contacts... showing the address of apple inc.
lol

the only thing i ever use is ibooks, itunes, notes, sticky notes
but then again im still happily using mavericks on my macs

Offline GaryN

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Yes... some things are "Very cool" like tracking my iphone text/pic messages with "messages" on the desktop and then using the desktop "Preferences/keybord/text" to create awesome 2 paragraph answers with text substitution of a few simple characters... so I can define "#acs" and my text substitution can literally send an entire company intro with address, contact info, and more via the desktop messages and it looks like I sent a meaningful and long text from my phone

Aww jeez… there you go using that stuff for real work…

Apple "contacts" is the worst offender... the best way to sync contacts is to logon to the icloud server via a browser and make all contact additions and changes directly... propagates to the phone almost instantly, while "contacts" can freeze up a mac if you have a lot of them
Back in the beginning, well MY beginning, I decided to simply NOT sync my contacts via icloud because it just felt insecure. I just update them when I update the Phone and Pad.
Oh yeah: I don't update / backup those via the cloud either. I use good old-fashioned wires with those damnable USB plugs.

What I really wonder is what virtually everybody is lifting off of my phone with the clearly unnecessary "app updates" that appear monthly or even more.

Offline Naiw

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I too think Rossman exaggerate issues with modern macbooks; then of course he runs a youtube channel and wants to be vocal and create headlines to attract more viewers...

Either way I have/had and used multiple macbook pros daily between 2008 to 2016 both privately but also in work (think the total is around 6) and only one has broken down on me- my private 2011 macbook pro had its AMD chipset breakdown on me.
At the time I were no longer using that one as my primary laptop so it wasn't a disaster but still annoying though, this has nothing to do with apples design though (except possibly out of termal aspects).

All other laptops I had (including my latest a 2014 macbook pro) works just fine, if the design was inheritly flawed it ought to have a much higher failure rate. I don't think its luck that they work, but rather that the issues are greatly exaggerated.

Offline IIO

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like i said 10 years ago: apple is a company who sells us "unibody" laptops whos "unibody" aluminium-chassis are made of two parts - which are sticked together with glue.
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