Author Topic: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?  (Read 1919 times)

Offline part12studios

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usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« on: September 14, 2019, 10:13:56 PM »
So I use my usb slots for MIDI and for moving data to my computer upstairs.  When it comes time to move sometimes hundreds of mb at a time moving the files over usb 1.0 seems pretty damn slow.

I'm also using MOTU Hardware like the MIDI Express and MIDI Time Piece AV and have notice some occasional choking with the midi data and wondered if it might be the needed cross talk over usb.. 

So yea I wondered if there might be usb 2.0 PCI cards out there that could give me a much needed data bandwidth boost. 


Offline GaryN

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2019, 05:53:03 PM »
So yea I wondered if there might be usb 2.0 PCI cards out there that could give me a much needed data bandwidth boost. 

Yes and no. There are zillions of USB2 PCI cards out there. You can buy them on fleabay for as little as 10 bucks.
The problem is that OS9 never heard of and so does not support the EHCI protocol that USB2 uses. The card will therefore work but only at USB1.1 speed. So……
You can get the card to run at USB2 speed IF you dual-boot your QS into OSX. 10.4 or 10.5 (maybe even 10-anything - not certain) will work.
   HOWEVER
The other far simpler way (assuming the "upstairs" computer is also a Mac, and for God's sake, why wouldn't it be?) is to use Firewire which…
Despite being rated at 400Mbps compared to USB2's 480 Mbps, is actually waay faster - especially on big file transfers and such because it will sustain 400 Mbps while USB2 will vary up and down due to its more CPU-involved "universal" nature.

I'm also using MOTU Hardware like the MIDI Express and MIDI Time Piece AV and have notice some occasional choking with the midi data and wondered if it might be the needed cross talk over usb.. 

99.9% of the time, when you hear MIDI "choking" (and by choking I mean timing glitches, missing notes etc.) the cause is too much data somewhere in the MIDI pipe caused by a excess of controller data hogging up the bandwidth. Pitchbend is a common culprit but many other CCs can also send thick amounts of data. Most of the time, you can reduce the resolution of these because they're actually sending more detail/resolution than is necessary to get the job done. The one infamous thing guaranteed to choke the stream is MTC because it demands priority over everything. If you're synching tape, there's your problem.
The trick is to take note of exactly when it happens. You can almost always hear glitches and then see in the DAW where there happens to be a pile of CC or something hogging the stream right there. What you can see, you can fix.
   HOWEVER

Just how much MIDI plus digital audio can you stuff through a USB 1.1 port before shit happens?

That's a good question. Wide open, USB 1.1 will do 12Mbps. The nominal bitrate for 16/44 uncompressed audio is roughly 0.8 Mbps (1.5Mbps for stereo). Send enough simultaneous channels through a single USB 1.1 port and you can see where there is certainly some point where stuff will get raggedy and that's just another reason to hate USB1 but:
That doesn't account for the ability of the system and interfaces to buffer the data and multiplex (stuff) as much as possible through the pipe, to be sorted out at the other end and neatly separated back into individual streams so exactly where that point will be is extremely variable. It IS obvious that where it can maybe become a problem over USB1, it's just as UN-likely over USB2.

If you're hearing audible MIDI choke and NOT running 10, 20 or more simultaneous channels of audio, thereby hearing audio crackles and such also, the USB is probably not the problem.

* Final note: MOTU took a calculated risk with the MIDI Timepiece AV USB by not requiring or even recommending a USB2 connection. I think they calculated that practically ALL potential users would migrate to USB2 equipped or at least USB2-capable hardware before pushing past the USB1 limit. They certainly knew that USB2 would soon be released and implemented and figured they could release the product ahead of any competition without a lot of unhappy users resulting. They were correct………but for a certain small group of vintage Mac-loving Luddites who shall remain nameless, ALL MOTUTPAVUSB's are undoubtedly running over USB2 or 3 without any possibility of bandwidth issues, and even the few still on USB1 slide under the limit. After all, what kind of idiots would build large, elaborate digital studio systems using obsolete hardware and software when they don't have to?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 06:09:25 PM by GaryN »

Offline part12studios

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2019, 07:25:04 PM »
yea i see what you mean and yea thanks for confirming that. like you sead 2.0 cards are cheap and easy to find but all of them were OSX from what i could find..

Ultimately I do know some of my trouble with the MIDI choking and it has to do with a couple of things.   

1. my Alesis Nitro drum module blasts a midi clock over all 8 outs of the MTP AV. 

2. sending MIDI sync to my MPK-25 and DW-8000.. 

I mostly blame the nitro.  I was hoping the hardware had a way to disable but according to alesis this is a "feature" constantly sending midi clock..  (cough, lazy..)  so maybe I can find some kind of inexpensive midi filter hardware.  I was hoping MOTU software might have some control over this but it doesn't appear to be the case. 

Ultimately yea I'm sure its the clock stuff because i'm only using like 3-4 midi tracks tops at this point and it's not crazy stuff i'm doing..  just too much clock stuff going around

I may need to revamp my layout and perhaps put all of my midi clock compatible stuff on the Midi Express so I don't have to check both devices to send midi clock too.. 

As for a certain small demographic of humanity continuing to use these date pieces of hardware shall indeed remain unnamed to protect the innocent.  I'm sure MOTU and may other may roll their eyes and these peculiar folks but what can I say..   I don't miss being a laptop musician. 


Offline IIO

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2019, 11:59:09 AM »
use firewire for moving data - or ethernet if both computers support gigabit.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline part12studios

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2019, 12:34:16 PM »
Hmmm networking.. that would be nice.. but let me explain my setup to see if this is even feasible because i have no idea where to start with networking and OS9 Mac.

So my iMac (2013) is on wifi. 
The G4 is on LAN to a range extender to the same wifi router. 

are there ports that need to be opened or what?  I'm more familiar with windows networking.   Not so hip to it with OSX and OS9

How do I move data over firewire? are you talking about a firewire hard drive?  That's not a bad idea. 

Offline GaryN

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2019, 01:14:43 PM »
Ultimately I do know some of my trouble with the MIDI choking and it has to do with a couple of things.   

1. my Alesis Nitro drum module blasts a midi clock over all 8 outs of the MTP AV. 

2. sending MIDI sync to my MPK-25 and DW-8000.. 

I mostly blame the nitro.  I was hoping the hardware had a way to disable but according to alesis this is a "feature" constantly sending midi clock..  (cough, lazy..)  so maybe I can find some kind of inexpensive midi filter hardware.  I was hoping MOTU software might have some control over this but it doesn't appear to be the case. 

Ultimately yea I'm sure its the clock stuff because i'm only using like 3-4 midi tracks tops at this point and it's not crazy stuff i'm doing..  just too much clock stuff going around

I may need to revamp my layout and perhaps put all of my midi clock compatible stuff on the Midi Express so I don't have to check both devices to send midi clock too..   

Time out.

1) MIDI clock is NOT the same as MIDI Time Code - it's far less complicated and normally doesn't clog up a data stream.
2) Your Nitro ONLY sends clock when and if you playback the built-in sequencer thereby using the Nitro as the Master clock.
    Are you not using a DAW???
    Your DAW should record the drum MIDI as you play it and the Nitro should simply play back the sounds when you hit "play" on the DAW.
3) The MK and DW have no need for clock or sync.

Again: Are you not using a DAW of some kind???
If not, that's your problem. ALL of these modules should be under the control of some kind of workstation software.

WTF are you doing there???????????????  It sounds like you need to do more than "revamp your layout". It sounds like you need to go back to the beginning and learn to set up that stuff properly.

I'm not trying to be rude or insulting but I don't know what else to say.

Offline part12studios

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2019, 02:03:58 PM »
1- That's good to know that midi clock is less intense than MTC, I'm not using MTC any any capacity. 

2 - No man it's crazy.. the thing CONSTANTLY sends a flood of midi clock info..  I checked with Alesis support.. "it's a feature".  there is no way to turn it off.  Simply put they expected it to be used with a usb / computer setup.  I have to go the MIDI route because of course an OS9 system isn't going to know how to talk to this. 

Yes I'm using a DAW.  Digital Performer 3 with a MOTU 2408, MidiExpress (usb 8x8) and a MTP AV (usb with a 2nd MTP AV networked networked 16x16)

Should and Do are two different things :)   I'm considering getting a different drum brain for the kit to fix this.  Someone is selling a Korg DRM1 for cheap. 

But regarding the MTP and MidiExpress, it seems that the hardware is unable to tune out the data that's coming it.. and I can't find any clear options that would filter it out via software, thus the choking that occurs sometimes. you can see the unit it's plugged into light up all 8 OUT ports on the MTP AV.

Interestingly enough, the DW8000 also seems to send out a slow roughly 0.5 sec beep from it all the time too.  I'm not sure why it does that, but I use it as a controller from time to time so I keep MIDI IN going.

3 - The MPK and the DW absolutely need sync for their arpeggiators.  the MPK25 has a hardware arp in it that sends MIDI notes.  The DW-8000 listens to MIDI clock for it's arp as well, but it doesn't send those arp notes as MIDI information. 

Dude i appreciate the closing comments but yea you're being a bit all of that making so many assumptions about my know how and setup.  I can see the problem, I'm experimenting with some alternatives.  I was just curious if i could find a quick / cheap upgrade in the usb area of my system.  Seeing if anyone out there in this helpful and (usually) nice community may have come across this issue before. 

I may look to consolidate all of my ports into the MTP AV x2 (16x16) since I only have need for about 14 MIDI outs.. and only 4 MIDI ins.  I thought distributing the midi between two usb devices might be a good thing and it worked for awhile without trouble, but forgetting that these are usb 1.0 (or 1.1?) devices they are slower than 2.0 which we've all become used too for many years.. 

Offline GaryN

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2019, 04:56:02 PM »
Dude i appreciate the closing comments but yea you're being a bit all of that making so many assumptions about my know how and setup.  I can see the problem, I'm experimenting with some alternatives.  I was just curious if i could find a quick / cheap upgrade in the usb area of my system.  Seeing if anyone out there in this helpful and (usually) nice community may have come across this issue before.   
For the third time, sorry. This is a balance between tact and real info. I made NO assunptions - that's why I asked "are you using a DAW" more than once. I couldn't imagine that you wouldn't be and yet what you describe is totally confusing - it just doesn't make sense.
2 - No man it's crazy.. the thing CONSTANTLY sends a flood of midi clock info..  I checked with Alesis support.. "it's a feature".  there is no way to turn it off.  Simply put they expected it to be used with a usb / computer setup.  I have to go the MIDI route because of course an OS9 system isn't going to know how to talk to this. 
This is where it doesn't make sense. There's no MIDI function for a data "flood" or simply a constant MIDI clock signal except from a sequencer used as a master to other devices actually playing a sequence. Also, even when that is the case, there's not so much data that the system will glitch. Think about it - a sequencer that sends so much "garbage" that it creates MIDI chaos in the system would be useless.

The fact that a probably under-educated and overpaid doofus at Alesis said it's a "feature" doesn't make it true or accurate.
I have to go the MIDI route because of course an OS9 system isn't going to know how to talk to this. 
This has nothing to do with OS9. That Nitro should be able to, and all you want it to is send nothing but MIDI drum notes while tracking and do nothing but respond to MIDI notes with drum sounds during playback over either 5-pin OR USB MIDI - which, according to the documentation, it will do.
3 - The MPK and the DW absolutely need sync for their arpeggiators. 
It sounds like (now, after learning a little more from your last post) that you're running the Nitro sequencer only to "clock" the DW-8000 arpeggiator. It that IS what you're doing, that's the core of the problem. They should be getting that sync from Performer - the arps should have nothing to do with the drum module.
Unless you're triggering unusually long arpeggios, they shouldn't require sync - for that matter, you should be able to record the arps as MIDI data and not need to use the Arpeggiators at all to play the arps back later.

So, understand that this is not some little oddity that "everybody runs across" - it's either a fundamental error in setup, a defective module, incorrect setting(s) or similar.

*Extra notes:

The 0.5-sec pulse from the DW is likely running status. That's one of the very few MIDI things that kinda fell between the cracks when everybody started making MIDI-capable hardware. Yamaha stuff is also notorious for generating it. The intention was to make the MIDI stream a little more efficient by creating a situation where the sending unit could skip some of the identifying bits but it was basically a stupid idea that went nowhere. It doesn't usually cause any problems though which is a good thing because there's almost never a way provided to turn it off.

Generally, if you only need one interface, that's all you should use. Adding unecessary hardware and connections usually causes more aggravation that benefit.

Bottom Line                                   

Your considering a different drum brain is a very good idea. In a system with Performer + a central computer, if you want a drumkit (as opposed to just banging a keyboard) all you need is pads and a sound module…NO extra built-in "extra" instrument sounds, NO built-in sequencer, no "extra" built-in anything. That way, you get NO "extra" built-in problems. You must however, make certain any "new" brain is compatible with your Nitro pads. Just because they have the same connectors (IF they do), there may be issues with sensitivity adjustments and such - usually just enough to piss you off, like when you realize no matter how hard you hit the damn pad, you can't seem to get a MIDI velocity above 100. Yamaha keyboards, especially the DX7 stuff are notorious for this - just something to remember because it's one of those mystery universe kind of things that only happens when you have purchased something from 10 states away that you absolutely cannot return…

I highly recommend an Alesis D4 or DM5 because they're likely to like your Nitro pads just fine, they can also be had for cheap and they have a zillion really great drum sounds in them. You probably will have to chuck the multi-pad harness though no matter what you get.

BOTTOMER LINE                 

Find out how to run the arpeggiators directly from Performer.

Offline part12studios

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2019, 03:17:35 AM »
Well you asked about the DAW question and before I could reply you started saying I need to go back to the basics.. that's all.. it was not a constructive tone.  I'm not a beginner with MIDI and i've used and own a lot of different midi equipment and sequencers starting around 1996 on my Amiga 1200.  However I'm also not claiming to be all knowing. So back on topic :)

Well there are not many options in the nitro brain.  I've been through it.  there are no options to isolate notes.  the sequencer is not playing when it is first turned on.  however, as soon as it is turned on.. its flooding it.  Maybe the Nitro brain is bad.  It works fine in all other abilities.  I agree the Alesis guy might not have been super deep but honestly the unit is so simple I know there are no options I missed.  it has midi things like Local on/off and General MIDI on/off, but no external/external clock options..  which I think is weird and unlike virtually any other drum machine I've ever used extensively, but it is what it is.  And it's weird.. heh. 

Maybe it's a problem in the MTP AV.  The one thing for sure that strikes me as strange is that this is the only instrument that is able to (without FreeMIDI saying so) to actually show up on every OUT light on both of the MTP AVs.. 16 out ports illuminate.  any other instrument when you play into the system doesn't do this.  So it's like the NItro is transmitting some data that is "above" FreeMIDI control and it bypasses the softwares control. 

I did notice the other day also that it seems that when I send MIDI Clock to the devices from DP3, it too makes all of the outs light up.  So this makes me conclude that MIDI Clock is something that FreeMIDI can't filter from the computer.  But going back to the DW8000 example, it sends a little ping but that ping doesn't illuminate everything, but its also not a MIDI clock as you mentioned below.

Well when the Nitro is on it definitely messes with the arps.  I've seen them fire off incorrectly and it's pretty clear.  The clock from the Nitro is sending clock info competing with the clock coming from DP3.  This combined with choking.  The choking isn't instant, it seems to take some time to start choking.  Maybe it's like some kind of MIDI buffer is filling up gradually and it eventually gets too full starts acting up a minute into the mix.. not exactly a minute but well into a song. 

Which documentation did you read this in?  The Nitro Manual?  The only thing I ever saw about it (not one mention of "clock" in the user guide) was regarding syncing.  No options in the utility area to disable this. 

"When syncing the module with another MIDI device, the Nitro module can only be the master, not the slave."

So I'm going to have to rewire it I suspect.  If you saw something somewhere else I'm all ears.  I didn't read the manual from top to bottom so your eyes may be sharper than mine.  :)


I'm not using the Nitro as a sequencer at all.  I am using Digital Performer on OS9 from my Mac to be the sequencer.  It's what generates the MIDI clock that I want to see get used.  Right, I don't want the Nitro to do what it is doing but all arrows point to shitty design by Alesis to make this thing not capable of disabling the clock out message it's sending. 

Honestly I think Alesis did this on purpose to cut some corners.  The unit has USB on it and I suspect they assume any "reasonable" musician in 2019 will be using a computer with USB 2.0 or greater capability to be using this as a drum controller device will use USB or MIDI in very limited capacity.  Not someone hooking up to a 8 in / 8 out MIDI device.

Yea good point about the DRM-1 / compatibility.  It is true that between age and brand differences, it may not work or more likely work all that well.  I will have to bring a pad with me to test it out. 

I just sold a DM5 unfortunately, but I'm not sure how i would have mounted a rack piece of gear on the kit because having the unit in one of my rack units would mean the cables would be strung across the floor over to it.  I do have a bunch of extra 12' 1/4" cables that would probably do the trick.  Well maybe I can find another good deal on a DM5 or DM4. 

My one other option (that might be cheaper) is to see if I can find some kind of MIDI box, like something from MIDI solutions that might be able to filter out the clock information.  However some of these specialty boxes can cost as much as an alternate brain.. so we'll see. 

Thanks for the insight and the time to reply to this.  :)

Offline GaryN

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2019, 03:49:11 PM »
Here's where it all goes haywire:

You just wrote "the sequencer is not playing when it is first turned on.  however, as soon as it is turned on.. its flooding it."

WHY, repeat, WHY are you starting the Nitro sequencer AT ALL? If you're simply using the Nitro set as a MIDI drumkit with DP there is NO reason to run the Nitro sequencer. Running it along with DP cannot help but cause a conflict. That should be obvious. Is it starting ITSELF when you start DP? THAT would be a serious design defect. SO…

WTF am I failing to understand here?

Offline part12studios

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2019, 04:29:43 PM »
Man take it down a notch.  I don't understand why you're so hostile.   

You're right it does seem haywire.  when i turn the unit on..  you do know that ON means to provide power to the unit.  On doesn't mean "play". 

When the unit is turned on it immediately sends midi clock info..  hitting PLAY doesn't make any difference, or stop.  The constantly flood of notes happens regardless.  Immediately when it's powered on. 

I don't use the sequencer ever on the nitro.  I don't know why you keep assuming I am.  I never say "when I hit play".  Play and ON are not the same thing.  you don't turn a sequence on.  you turn a sequencer on.  you hit PLAY to start a sequence. 

I use the sequencer from DP3.  that's the only sequencer i ever use.  The sequencer in the nitro is by design meant to be a master device.  This is stupid, but it was Alesis's decision not mine. 

I've never once tried to run both at the same time.  That would be problematic.  I keep telling you.  The notes flood when the unit is turned on. 

Offline DieHard

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2019, 05:44:44 PM »
Quote
Man take it down a notch.  I don't understand why you're so hostile.   

You're right it does seem haywire.  when i turn the unit on..  you do know that ON means to provide power to the unit.  On doesn't mean "play".

Gary is NOT hostile, he is clear and to the point; you are very fortunate that he is trying to break it down and ask all the right questions.

He has extensive knowledge is all the areas you are asking about; it is not your fault in asking and we understand that you need help, but I also was confused at your setup... so much so, I could not respond.  Having Gary answer your post was a hell of a lot better than it sitting there with no replies... so, please understand that you are not being attacked; he is obviously just a little frustrated trying to break down your setup and issues since the semantics were off... again not your fault, but this often happens, when the wrong terms are used, it is difficult to really understand the problem.

We all kinda have a "thick skin" around here and we rarely "sugar coat" since the solutions often require a little "grilling"  to get to the root of the problem.  If you can deal with that, then I am sure we can help you or lead you toward a solution that you discovered yourself :)

Offline part12studios

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2019, 07:10:00 PM »
Thank you for that perspective and i respect the community and you vouching for him.  I do understand it took a few posts to get the full setup, but it was also really a post about USB 2.0, not my MIDI setup.  My mistake for not laying that out sooner. 

Very interesting about the MOTU insight, I guess the long and the short of it is that midi clock can't be controlled by FreeMIDI.  I added the Nitro as an instrument and made sure to not list it as a device that sends or receives MIDI clock.  It was set up as a basic controller to allow midi to go to / from it as a drum module and as a controller.  Nothing seems to matter.  The clock won't stop. 

Most importantly, the 2.0 question was answered concisely and matched up with my own research but hearing "from the horse's mouth" definitely insured no stone was unturned. :)

Thanks,
Caleb

Offline GaryN

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2019, 07:52:48 PM »
Thanks for the support Jer… you're right - I was a little frustrated trying to sort this out.

Caleb, your 1st post WAS about USB2 (USB1 being slow) and I spent considerable time on that BUT that wasn't what the real problem was / is.

The REAL issue is that Alesis intended the Nitro set for relative beginners. The hookup diagram even shows it as a sort of master plugged into a computer with other MIDI stuff plugged into IT. They clearly don't see the user as having a real DAW.
It took a long time to get to that you both NEED a MIDI clock to time arps PLUS Alesis actually produced such a POS with a permanently ON clock AND then said "sure it makes a fine stand-alone MIDI instrument too". It clearly does NOT.

If you hadn't gotten that info straight from Alesis, I simply wouldn't believe it.
Would you? Of course not - it's idiotic. That's why you had to resort to calling them at all.

I never thought you were a "beginner". You've been around here for a good while and I do read other people's posts. That's how I learn shit.
However we got there, we DID finally get to:
"USB2 on a QS works if you dual-boot", AND
"Firewire is an alternative" AND
"You need a different drum module" i.e. lose the Nitro

I don't know how much serious drumming you actually do, but I'll add here that if you do anything beyond stuff you could also do on a keyboard, you'll soon learn to hate the entire Nitro kit. It's clearly not built beyond beginner's standards and the pads are very probably just as disappointing as the controller.

All the best to you. We're all sorta in this together, aren't we?

I think I'll go and smash up a couple of MidiVerbs…

Offline refinery

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2019, 07:54:10 PM »
I've run across a few devices which do this, send midi clock at all times. It's a pain. Like the K5000W I have. I believe there is a way to use clockworks to set up a filter on the inbound midi signal, but I forget what it is labeled and I know it's not something obvious unfortunately. I won't have a chance to get into my studio until Thursday but I'll try to look into it then.
G4/MDD 1.42 (9), G4/GB 500DP (X), Beige G3 400 (upgraded) (9), PBG4Ti 1Ghz (X), PBG3WS 300 (9)

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Offline part12studios

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2019, 08:33:30 PM »
That sounds encouraging!  I've not used clockworks before.  Do you know if there is an OS9 version of it?  I'm not running OSX.  From what I can see clockworks is OSX only? 

https://motu.com/download/download_matching_downloads.html?product_id=16

you know that does show something that maybe interesting.  Express MTP Console.  I've not installed that and maybe this offers some advanced features.  I'll look into that in the meantime.

Anything you can find this week would be super appreciated!  :)


Offline GaryN

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2019, 10:31:06 PM »
Late note: Caleb: My nagging curiosity is always on. It led me to Google where I immediately found posts from you to Alesis AND Motunation from back in July where you explained your problem in far better terms and detail.
Had you included that info or links to it, it would have saved us BOTH a lot of typing.

I'm just sayin'…

Oh, by the way…

In Performer:
1) Open the Event Muting window
2) Click all the Nitro check boxes for all channels
3) Mute Real-Time data with the popup menu

I found this is 3 minutes flat and I don't even own or use DP.
You’re welcome.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 10:50:03 PM by GaryN »

Offline part12studios

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2019, 05:20:56 AM »
cool I'll check it out tonight for sure.  that sounds awesome.  Thanks for finding that.  I hope that does the trick!  :)

Offline part12studios

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2019, 07:07:17 PM »
I do appreciate your nagging curiosity.  kudos for that! :)

So I cranked up Digital Performer 3 and going through all of the windows couldn't find an "event muting" window.  I did some googling and can't find anything about this either. 

Did you pull that from the DP3 manual?  I went through it pretty thoroughly before, but i did it again tonight just to be sure keeping an eye on "Event Muting" and couldn't find anything.  Maybe a later version of DP has it?

If anyone is looking for a copy of it, here it is:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fzm6xtlqg5h9hii/DP3%20Manual.pdf?dl=0

unfortunately this one is scanned not text so searching text doesn't work, but i went through each section that seemed likely to talk about sync / midi clock stuff.  they definitely talk about it, but i

It does state that sysex messages do broadcast on all outs so this is normal behavior if a device is broadcasting.

As we've concluded already the instruments that listen to midi clock are getting conflicting messages..  from the nitro and dp..  both telling the instrument a midi clock and it tries to listen to both and that of course means trouble..

I'm going to switch some things around and get the Nitro (till / if I replace it) on the midi express which only has 8 outs..  and move other things (especially the DW, MPK and JV1080 which all definitely desirable devices to listen to clock from DP3).  Hopefully that will help some.

Thanks,
Caleb

Offline part12studios

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2019, 08:04:17 PM »
So I did go and swap things around.  The JV1080 was the only thing on the MidiExpress XT that listened to clock. so I moved the nitro over there.. still lights up all 8 outs but at least none of those outs go to instruments that know what to do with it.  While the MPK25, JV1080 and DW8000 get some peace and quiet. 

Also I did see there were some event related things in DP3, but they didn't touch device specific control and really just focused on CC information, not sysex stuff.  So that did look promising, but it didn't offer the kind of clear control you mentioned point to a device by name and tweaking it.

Thanks again for all the thoughts and insight. I learned a few cool things along the way as well.  DP3 is a pretty awesome program.  I still have more to learn about it in the audio space

Offline GaryN

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2019, 10:29:27 PM »
Shit! I'm sorry. I got lost……too many browser windows open at once!

I found the solution on page 75 of: THIS manual: https://cdn-data.motu.com/manuals/midi/MOTU_USB_MIDI_Interface_User_Guide_Mac.pdf
It clearly shows a software "Event Muting" panel that will filter that nasty little clock out.

It's part of Clockworks in both  OSX and/or OS9.

It indicates that the solution is exactly where you would expect it to be: In the Clockworks / TPAV controller

NOW…Here's your challenge:
The MOTU main downloads page does NOT seem to have a download for OS9 Clockworks that I can find.
The above manual however, clearly shows that the software exists…which makes sense.

SO…Try this download package: http://cdn-data.motu.com/downloads/freemidi/fm1.48.hqx

I found it here: https://motu.com/techsupport/technotes/driverlog
It listed as:
 MOTU MIDI Installer FreeMIDI 1.48/USB MIDI Installer (Release Date 2003-11-05)
Compatibility: OS 9

    Drivers and consoles for all MOTU MIDI interfaces, serial and USB.
    Includes FreeMIDI v1.48 installer for Mac OS9


Hopefully, Clockworks for OS9 is in there otherwise, you'll have to…

Go find it. Haunt the MOTU forums and such…

Let me know what happens……

Offline part12studios

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2019, 11:27:22 PM »
You sir are a scholar and a gentleman.. heh heh.   so yes i have freemidi already and it includes clockworks.  it just throws it in a folder on the OS9 drive and i had never used it before.

sure enough going to those settings and muting realtime data IN shut down all that noise.  it seems to be a locally saved setting as once its set the software no longer needs to keep running. the setting is in the

I confirmed after muting all the various realtime/mtc/exclusive stuff which i'd never need from this controller/sound module it still outputs to DP3 records notes and plays them back so bravo on finding that!  Now i'm off to bed at 2:27 am.. :)

Thanks for this.  Hopefully if anyone else runs into this kind of issue now folks will have an answer.  Though I should see if clockworks is mentioned elsewhere in this forum hindsight 20/20.

Thanks,
Caleb

Offline DieHard

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2019, 07:55:21 AM »
I knew we would get there  ;)

The "crawlers" post a lot of our stuff out there in the search engines, so I am sure this will help many with similar MIDI devices that do not stop chatting

I could edit all the posts down to 3 or 4 and it would be...
Question... answer... Question... answer

But where's the fun in that... you have to read it all to "pan for gold" lol  "The nuggets are there in them there hills"
start diggin'

Offline part12studios

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2019, 08:17:10 AM »
Indeed :)    About to search the forum now for an answer to another question.  hopefully someone has come across it before.  Though it seems like searching in the forum has been prone to system error messages.  Going to switch to firefox and see how that does.

Offline GaryN

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Re: usb 2.0 for G4 Quicksilver options?
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2019, 05:07:08 PM »