Author Topic: File Syncing/Backup in OS9  (Read 4903 times)

Offline Greystash

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File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« on: June 29, 2019, 03:01:08 AM »
Does anyone know if there's a good file syncing/backup utility for Mac OS 9? I have ~120GB of Mac OS 7-9 software, ISO's etc. that I want to keep in sync between my G4 and NAS drive (over ethernet) - E.g. if I add files to the directory on my G4, then run the sync utility again it notices that there has been only one file change and copies the now file to the NAS drive and vice versa.

I previously accomplished this with ChronoSync 3 on OSX, but OSX messes up my OS9 partitions every time it touches them. I've just gone full OS9 and removed OSX. ChronoSync did this perfectly and the only comparable Mac OS 9 application I've found is PowerMerge LE, but this often runs into errors (permissions?), and suffers memory crashes. Every other app I've used only offers one-way backups, which isn't what I want.

Is there anything similar out there?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2019, 10:56:57 PM by Greystash »

Offline Europa

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2019, 07:15:16 AM »
I asked about backup software here recently and was recommended Personal Backup (http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/personal-backup).

I use it for backup and not synchronization, but I think it does file sync operations as well. It is really simple and painless to set up. :)
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Offline Greystash

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2019, 02:24:38 PM »
Thanks RogerWilco that works great! Had a few issues with folder/file permissions which must have been left over from OSX, but solved this by creating a new folders and moving the items into them.

Offline Europa

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2019, 05:03:39 AM »
Awesome! I'm glad to hear that it worked out! It is probably the most painless too I've found or have been recommended and for good reason. I can just have it sit in my menu bar and every week, when I do backups, I can tell it to backup for me. :D
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For those interested in 70s and 80s inspired electronic music, here is my SoundCloud profile:

https://soundcloud.com/user-385492180

Offline OS923

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2019, 07:36:51 AM »
I make my complete backups in 3 steps:
- reduce the number of files by saving every program as a compressed ShrinkWrap image,
- reduce the number of files by converting every HTML page to a PDF,
- save every volume as a Toast image on an external disk.

I make my incremental backups with my own program. Then I convert them to StuffIt X.

Offline Europa

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2019, 03:22:32 PM »
I make my complete backups in 3 steps:
- reduce the number of files by saving every program as a compressed ShrinkWrap image,
- reduce the number of files by converting every HTML page to a PDF,
- save every volume as a Toast image on an external disk.

I make my incremental backups with my own program. Then I convert them to StuffIt X.

Nice! I might have to try that sometime. :D
Power Mac G4 Digital Audio (733 MHz, 1.5 GB RAM)

For those interested in 70s and 80s inspired electronic music, here is my SoundCloud profile:

https://soundcloud.com/user-385492180

Offline Greystash

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2019, 05:34:43 PM »
It definitely is the most painless option I've come across! Thanks for the tips OS923, I've compressed everything (file/folder) as a .sit archive and really should make another backup with toast images. HTML to PDF is a great suggestion which I haven't yet done.

Thanks!

Offline IIO

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2019, 06:16:23 PM »
ive never used anything else than toast images, because my main backup is on CD, later DVD (now bluray) anyway.

the only lilttle extra work is that you need to index them when you want to be able to search for a file.
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Offline OS923

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2019, 06:52:54 AM »
Backup programs that I tested and that I found OK:

Personal backup 2.0.1
Retrospect 5.1.177
SmartSaver 3.4

Synchronization programs that I tested and that I found OK:

File Synchronization 1.2

This is a control panel application from Apple.
It was included, I think, in OS 9.1, but later removed.
It lets you make "pairs" that it remembers when you restart the program.
(There's something wrong with the about box.)
Would this be the last version?

The main problem with synchronization programs is that you need to be absolutely sure that your date and time are correct at all times, otherwise you risk that new files are overwritten with old versions. When my G4 starts up it shows in large characters the date and time and then I verify it with my radio control clock.

Offline Greystash

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2019, 04:42:33 AM »
File Synchronization was great! That's what I used until recently but often ran into memory issues when dealing with big directories. Thanks for the tip about date/time, I hadn't thought about that..

Offline Europa

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2019, 06:38:37 AM »
I used File Synchronization until it started locking up for no apparent reason. :P
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Offline OS923

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2019, 06:51:14 AM »
I propose a programming contest:
  • the shortest backup program in C++,
  • the shortest backup program in REALbasic,
  • the shortest synchronization program in C++,
  • the shortest synchronization program in REALbasic.

Offline Greystash

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2019, 04:19:05 PM »
I've got a few books on CodeWarrior C++ and have begun learning for OS9, so maybe one day in the near future I could give it a go

Offline OS923

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2019, 05:33:38 AM »
See in the attachment the solution in REALbasic. If you agree with this solution, then I'll write the C++ version.

Offline OS923

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2019, 05:39:34 AM »
If File Synchronization crashes, then give it more memory. This increases the heap.

If it's a PPC program, then you can also increase the stack. Open 'cfrg' resource 0 and change App Stack to a larger value.

I synchronized a directory with 20 levels deep without problem.

Before you synchronize, you should look for potential problems, like locked icon files and locked invisible files, which make some programs crash.

Some file copy problems are caused by invisible files and folders, for example made by file sharing, OSX or Windows.

Icon files can cause trouble because they may not be added to the total file size and then it's miscalculated and may cause overflow in the progress.

Offline OS923

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2019, 05:42:39 AM »
When people scan a directory, they usually create a parameter block as a local variable on the stack in a recursive function.

This is the better way.
Suppose that you're scanning A:B:C: and you find D.
You don't need the parameter blocks for A, B, C and D at the same time.
You need only the parameter block of the last thing that you looked at: D.
Then you can make the parameter block static or declare it outside of the recursive function.
Same story if you make a spec in this function.
Then you save 384+70=454 bytes for every level in the recursion.

I've programmed it without recursion too.
I placed the dirID on a stack.
That's the fastest solution.

Offline OS923

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2019, 05:24:05 AM »
I synchronized with Synchronize! 3.9.5 (3 MB/s).
I synchronized with Tri-BACKUP 3 (10 MB/s).
I found this on a MacWelt DVD.
There seems to have been a Tri-BACKUP 4 for OS 9.
I found Synchronize Pro 4.3.1.

Offline Greystash

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2019, 06:34:40 PM »
Sorry for the slow reply... I've been so busy with work I haven't booted my Quicksilver in months. I still need to transfer over 600gb of music to the Quicksilver so will do some testing with your REALbasic app. Would you mind sharing the Tri-BACKUP and Synchronize Pro apps? I'm interested in trying these out too. Also, what tool do you use to measure transfer speeds?

Offline OS923

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2019, 07:00:43 AM »
Synchronize! 3.9.5
http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macwelt-dvd-4

Tri-BACKUP 3
https://www.tri-edre.com/pub/files/TriBACKUP_3US.sit

Tri-BACKUP 4
https://www.tri-edre.com/pub/files/TriBACKUP_4USOS9.sit

I measure the speed usually with the menu bar clock and Calculator. My REALbasic program uses CopyFileTo, which copies around 20 MB/s. That's faster than all the other programs that I tried.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 08:34:58 AM by OS923 »

Offline OS923

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2019, 08:25:14 AM »
I seem to remember that some of these programs show the transfer speed.

Offline OS923

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2019, 08:39:08 AM »
I converted all my sitx backups to ShrinkWrap images. I indexed them with CatFinder. Searching a filename in my backups is now 120 times faster compared to ArchiveSearch.

Offline OS923

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2019, 01:20:37 AM »
Synchronize! Pro 4.3.1 -> 1009-6779-0168-7099-SP
Tri-BACKUP 3.2.2 -> L50 102 131 448
Tri-BACKUP 4.0.4 -> BU4-F12 208 599 770

Offline cyberish

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2019, 12:20:29 PM »
I converted all my sitx backups to ShrinkWrap images. I indexed them with CatFinder. Searching a filename in my backups is now 120 times faster compared to ArchiveSearch.
Thank you for all your efforts! Always interesting reading about your new discoverings!!

Offline Greystash

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2019, 02:55:02 AM »
Thank you very much!! Will give them a go

Offline OS923

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2019, 08:33:50 AM »
I found a memory leak in Synchronization. Now all memory leaks are gone.

Offline Greystash

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2019, 01:38:04 AM »
I've finally had a chance to do some testing and here's what I've found syncing a HD with 120GB of archived software:


File Synchronization - Apple control panel modified to use a bigger stack and more memory
- Works flawlessly
- Good UI
- The 'Scanning Files' step is considerably slower than all other applications tested

Synchronize! Pro
- Second slowest application, also seemed to struggle scanning for changed files.
- Often encountered issues syncing Desktop DB, DF etc. files

Personal Backup
- Works very well
- Good UI
- I'm assuming it uses a temp folder for transfers because it's the only application that leaves the current files in place until a file has been fully 'synced'. This means that if you cancel a sync the original files are still in place.
- Appears to be equal to Tri-backup in terms of speed.
- Tries to sync Desktop folders which sometimes need to be excluded due to errors

Tri-Backup
- Good UI
- Same speed as Personal Backup
- Excellent at running as a background task and doesn't seem to slow my G4 down
- I haven't come across any sync errors while using it!

My ranking:
1. Tri-Backup
2. Personal Backup
3. File Synchronization
4. Synchronize! Pro


OS923 I wasn't able to test your RealBasic App. Whenever I try to build the application I get errors. Are you able to send through a compiled version?


Offline OS923

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2019, 06:22:44 AM »
My 2 programs have some external items in common. When you open the project REALbasic 5.5.5 needs to locate those items and then it should be OK.

But I'll do like you asked and link them.

Offline Philgood

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2019, 10:54:20 AM »
Thanks a lot Greystash for letting us know!
*G4 MDD 1.25GHz (Single 2003)* with 2x 80Gb harddrives, 1Gb RAM, Tascam US-428 and Edirol FA-101 USB/Firewire soundcards-*iMac G3 DV 400MHz* with installs from OS 8.6-OSX Tiger on different harddrives-*Powerbook G4 1.67Ghz* with new SSD ! Love it.

Offline OS923

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2019, 06:56:31 AM »
OS923 I wasn't able to test your RealBasic App. Whenever I try to build the application I get errors. Are you able to send through a compiled version?
See attachments.

Offline Greystash

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2019, 01:04:26 PM »
Thanks for uploading those OS923. I've tried them out and both are at least 10 seconds faster than any of the other tools listed above.
I found several issues but these are obviously present because it's a first iteration.

- You can't cancel a sync/backup. The system is unresponsive until the task is complete, then a dialog shows saying that the task has been cancelled.
- There is no progress indicator so you can't tell whether the task is running or if the or the system has crashed

Thank you for your efforts, it's great to have more options!

Offline OS923

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2019, 07:28:47 AM »
Hmmm. I'll look into it.

Offline OS923

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2019, 07:11:27 AM »
I improved it with a progress bar. It uses a buffer of 64 MB, which it reads in blocks of 1 MB, then writes in blocks of 1 MB. I used this method in "Save a volume as a file" and I will use this too in the new Finder. Because reading is faster than writing, the speed will be initially higher, but then it becomes 'slower'. It copies large files at 17.1 MB/s. It copies small files at 4.6 MB/s.

Offline IIO

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Re: File Syncing/Backup in OS9
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2019, 03:27:25 AM »
17mb/s? why that?
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com