Author Topic: Any experience with G technology G Drives in OS 9+replacing hard drives?  (Read 1042 times)

Offline user user

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Hi All,
First post from a UK based new member so please be gentle...
I am looking at a couple of 2TB G Technology G-Drives 2nd hand to use for audio recording in Pro Tools TDM,
In OS 9 on a 933 Quicksilver.
The G-tech hard drive model has firewire 800 and USB 2, eSata and a 934 Oxford chipset.

I can only see the possibility of 8 partitions max in the OS 9 drive setup thingy so would it be best to partition into 189GB chunks using an OS X machine (10.5.8) with Spotlight off and then wipe the partitions of any potential nasty OS X stuff once back in OS 9?. I plan for the drives to only be used under OS 9 after that

I am wondering if any here have experience of these drives - particularly how easy it is (for a not very technical person) to replace the internal drives, for when I need to, as well as  any replacement internal drive compatibility issues.

Thanks
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 03:48:56 PM by user user »

Offline macStuff

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quick google search reveals those drives are USB3+
so theres no way they will ever be compatible with OS 9
why dont u include a link to the exact product you are referring to? or a photo?

if its not only usb but also SATA / Firewire then of course will work;
only at Sata150 / Fw400 speeds
fw800 + usb2 will not work in os9

re: 190GB chunks; that only applies to BOOT drives; you can have other partitions up to 2Tb and will work just fine as long as you arent booting from them

its been established as best practice scenario not to ever let osx access directly any partition that will be used by os9 (in an attempt to avoid dreaded btree error) i dont even copy from osx partition to os9 partition on the same g3/g4 i move files to an external drive or network drive or FTP/cloud storage and boot to diff os and transfer file again; just to avoid the possibility of those type of errors from ever happening; a firewire external drive comes in handy for this purpose if you are juggling os9 + osx on same machine

Offline user user

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Thanks for the reply, macStuff - It's  an older one with USB 2.
I know I'll be limited to Firewire 400 speeds.
Thanks for the info re Boot only 190GB.
I wasn't planning on booting from them.

Offline user user

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P.S. I am planning for this machine to be OS 9 only and to use a more portable 500GB drive to transfer files between my OS 10.5.8 machine and the Quicksilver.

Offline IIO

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as for physical HDs, we do not know of any models which would not work with OS9 when using firewire or SATA.

but pls search the forums for protools´ strange partitions size limit. not sure if it applies to all versions - but protools is using a custom disk access method and only supports writing to partitions up to 178 gb or something.
so if recording audio with PT is the main reason why you add these drives you might consider other solutions or at least format likewise.

replacing the internals drives in a quicksilver is doable - there are other models where it is far more complicated.

what works great is to use some cheap (3 euro) IDE to SATA adapters, and then remove the steel trays where the disks are in so that you can place the new disks horizontally on the floor, with the SATA adapter directly mounted to the disk.

you might want to turn off the auto-reboot function in your OSes before you unplug the machine from the net.

other than that it is opening the case, locating the disk, and removing 2-3 screws.

if you are paranoid, use latex gloves and put a towel over the board in order not to break something.

to partition, especially firewire, best option is to use 10.4.
in 10.5 you cannot install OS9 drivers and in OS9 you need third party software. turn journalling off, even if it is going to be used in OSX , too.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 11:27:00 PM by IIO »
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline macStuff

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P.S. I am planning for this machine to be OS 9 only and to use a more portable 500GB drive to transfer files between my OS 10.5.8 machine and the Quicksilver.

funny you mention 10.5.8 i just installed a leopard intel hackintosh this weekend; setting up apps on it right now lol
personally i use gigabit ethernet via a BSD powered server that shares the same drives via different protocols: AFP/SMB/FTP etc;

re: pro tools partition size limits;
i believe the threads that 110 is referring to are:
Quote
whats the largest partition size/drive u have successfully used with pro tools?
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2263.0.html

***ed gives some sound advice here re: using SCSI; its true ProTools did Evolve using SCSI mostly and in my mind it does make sense that using a scsi card and a scsi drive should be one of the most reliable bug-free ways to record to with PT

user Lukpac: anyone still running ProTools 5? I ran into a bit of a snag
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1941.msg12209.html#msg12209
   
user Lukpac discovers digi 001/PTLE accesing partitions exceeding size of 418,815 MB causes problems
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2307.msg12710.html#msg12710

Audio File Storage — Hard Drive Minimum Requirements With Pro Tools LE for Mac OS 9
http://archive.digidesign.com/compato/os9/stg/drivereqle.html
***might aswell review this aswell; digi reccommends formatting your drives a specific way:

so; as long as u are using HFS formatted partitions over firewire; formatting your drive with drive setup;
and keep your partitions at or under 400Gb you should be good

« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 12:15:30 AM by macStuff »

Offline user user

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Thanks for the replies, MacStuff and IIO.

The seller has not got back to me for a while so may have sold the drives I was after so I am willing to look
at other possibilities.
With all the PCI card slots being full of MIX cards, which I don't want to lose, any PCI solution(SATA, SCSI) is out of the picture.
Not really wanting to get a Magma or similar expansion chassis, even if I could find one in the UK, so it looks like either Firewire or IDE-SATA.

 IIO - Where are the 3 Euro  IDE to SATA converters sold?
 With placing the drives horizontally how are they to be fixed - Velcro?

I am assuming you mean the two drive bays on the left as you look at the
 open door of the Quicksilver - which IDE connectors are to be used and is an
extension cable of any kind necessary?

I can see from a bit of reading that Seagate drives have a bad reputation - are there any
SATA drives that folk here especially recommend? 

I guess i would be looking at another firewire backup drive as well

MacStuff - thanks  for all the links - I read all of them so can see that 400GB limit makes sense
from lengthy experimentation. 

Thanks again

Offline IIO

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i dont fix my HDs at all, they are flying around in the case^^  a piece of cardboard or rubber feet can be useful if you stack them, though

i have a bunch of exactly this type of adapter, the work with HDs, SLC, optical drives, and i have used one of them an an optical case with firewire connectivity to run a BD burner.

these cheap ones are usually better than fancy looking birectional converters and if you have time to wait, you can order from china for prices as low as 2,70 euro including shipping.

eventually dont buy from a dealer with 8000 sales...

https://www.ebay.de/itm/New-Pata-Ide-To-Sata-Hard-Drive-Adapter-Converter-3-5-Hdd-Express-Adapter-CardZJ/264295945267?hash=item3d89441433:g:OY4AAOSw~2Bcv8Kp&frcectupt=true

...but there are others with 100,000s of sales.

same product from a local retailer will be around 8-12 euro.

until brexit. :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline user user

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https://www.amazon.co.uk/PATA-SATA-Card-Adapter-Converter/dp/B00GJ8PHC8/ref=sr_1_4?crid=6RJ6BKN2ERZ0&keywords=sata+to+ide+adapter&qid=1558812731&s=gateway&sprefix=sata+to+ide%2Caps%2C182&sr=8-4

-Will the above be okay then?

I am away from my Mac for a few days so won't be able to open it up to have a look but aren't you limited to the 2nd IDE/power connectors to connect a 2nd drive on top of the one on the right(as slave - is that necessary/how, if so?), and the one to connect the (absent) Zip drive? - - are cable extensions necessary or are there more connectors when you remove the middle and left bits of metal in the drive bays there? 

Then there are endless choices about hard drives. I know Pro Tools wants at least 7200 rpm drives with at most 10ms latency, which isn't hard but i want to get the best drives I can. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Cheers

Offline macStuff

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should be ok;
the best thing to do is order a bunch of those at once;
i ordered like 8 of them from china at a time; and keep them onhand and then im always prepared with new adapter still wrapped
ready to be used when i need it
cost is cheap like 2-3$ each yes

Offline refinery

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you know, i gotta say after a couple failed ones including one that sparked, I really stay away from those cheapy adapters and go for ones from more reputable sellers, like Startech. the soldering and quality control on those cheap adapters is $%#^@&* garbage. even that sample Amazon photo, the 3rd pin on the molex looks like a cold solder joint.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 06:53:34 PM by refinery »
G4/MDD 1.42 (9), G4/GB 500DP (X), Beige G3 400 (upgraded) (9), PBG4Ti 1Ghz (X), PBG3WS 300 (9)

got my mind on my scsi and my scsi on my mind

Offline IIO

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-Will the above be okay then?

i think all of these green vertically mounted adaptors are basically the same thing, even from different manufacturers. the photos all look the same.

i dont know what happens when you connect two on the same bus, but you should be aware that the configuration as master/slave isnt really required for normal ata disks as well. it is an old concept.

using an SATA 150 PCI card you´d set the jumpers of an SATA II disk to 150 mode, and using these little green friends you should not need to set anything.

just avoid SATA III HDs with a PCI card, some might not work. wi th adaptors? no idea. i´ve always a avoided SATA III. (i have a total of 11 x 1,5 TB WD Green SATA 300 disks with my 933)

if i would have known 15 years ago that it will be so hard to find a replacement PCI card i would have started with adapters directly. it is only half as fast but otherwise it is the same, 180 euros cheaper and  doesnt need a PCI slot. :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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I really stay away from those cheapy adapters and go for ones from more reputable sellers, like Startech.

...which also have a classic jumper quartett - do you make use of this?
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline user user

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All the drives I am looking at on Amazon UK are SATA III.
so far comparing -
WD Blue - 1TB £35
vs
WD Black 1TB £68























« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 02:42:16 PM by user user »

Offline refinery

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I really stay away from those cheapy adapters and go for ones from more reputable sellers, like Startech.

...which also have a classic jumper quartett - do you make use of this?

they came jumpered for master setting, ive had no reason to change them because the machines they're in only have one drive. but it works fine.
G4/MDD 1.42 (9), G4/GB 500DP (X), Beige G3 400 (upgraded) (9), PBG4Ti 1Ghz (X), PBG3WS 300 (9)

got my mind on my scsi and my scsi on my mind

Offline IIO

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WD Blue - 1TB £35

seems a lot, but depends on condition.

"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline user user

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They are meant to be new but come in generic as opposed to retail packaging so could have come from stock destined to be installed in whatever computers, I guess.  I'm not sure how that would leave me re manufacturers warranty.£2 more to get it from Amazon as opposed to a 3rd party

Model number is WD10EZEX so they should be 7,200rpm, 64mb cache, 8ms.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/WD-TB-PC-Hard-Drive/dp/B0088PUEPK/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=
« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 07:32:47 AM by user user »