Monitor stays black after booting

[davidivjak]

Hello everybody!

I have a PowerMac G4 running with OS9. I use it for scanning medium format film on an Kodak RFS3570 filmscanner with SCSI connection.
When I setup the machine for the first time together with a Nvidia A74 and a 24" monitor with 1920 x 1200 resolution via DVI, everything worked perfectly fine.
Now I connected my 27" monitor which I use for editing on my Macbook to the G4, because I don´t like having two monitors in my room anymore. So I want two machines on one monitor.
When booting, the screen would stay black. You can see that there is some kind of signal coming through, as the monitor does not go into standby. I tried to boot with the 24" monitor again, without any problems. Then I just connected it with the 27" again while it was still running. Suddenly I had an image on the 27" as well, but it was distorted. When looking in the control panel for changing resolution, the only option offered there was 1920 x 1200.

Now my question: Is the Powermac G4 even able to display a higher resolution than 1920 x 1200? If not, is there any way that it would still boot up correctly with the 27", even if the image is distorted than? Maybe it´s somehow possible to display the 1920 x 1200 in the center of the 27"? I really don´t mind having black borders, I just want it to work properly.

Any help is highly appreciated!
Thank you very much

Kind regards,
David

[refinery]

depends entirely on the video card. some can support higher resolutions, some cannot.
that sounds like its a GeForce 4 which is not a particularly powerful card.
personally I would suggest looking into updating to like a radeon 9000 which will have much better performance and resolution support.

your monitor may also have a mode for not stretching out the screen. usually its something like "native resolution mode" or "1:1 mode"

[GaryN]

I hate to be the wet blanket…but:

1920 x 1200 is the maximum signal transmittable over single-link DVI, so that's what you're limited to.
Substituting a Radeon or whatever will NOT improve anything. The format / protocol is maxed out.
There is NO 4X AGP graphics card compatible with a G4 that will exceed this.
Your Macbook is evidently a 2009 or newer model with a Mini-Display port with dual-link DVI capability or a Thunderbolt port.

          BOTTOM LINE → _____________
If you can't set the monitor itself to adapt to and display an incoming 1920 x 1200 signal, you're stuck.

[davidivjak]

Thank you so much for the quick replies!

Well, that does not sound so good so far. Is there any way to reduce the transmitted resolution by the monitor so the G4 would still boot up at least? Any converter or so which can make the G4 think it would be connected to a 1920 x 1200 monitor?

[Astroman]

It may depend on your specific monitor - most switch their resolution according to the incoming signal.
I use a monitor/usb keyboard mouse switching device to have one monitor/keyboard for 2 systems.
If you boot the G4 first, then it should be possible to switch between both system.
The 'G4 first' is only to keep the Mac happy that a compatible screen is connected.

[refinery]

ah yes, GaryN is right, and i totally overlooked the DVI-only part, and that is correct, 1920x1200 is best you can get on single-link DVI.
however, if you're willing to go analog (and the monitor even has a vga port...) it can go higher than 1920x1200.
http://lowendmac.com/video/agp/radeon-9000.html

Resolutions: 640 x 480 to 2048 x 1536

[davidivjak]

Thank you guys!
I have the Eizo Flexscan EV2736, so all I have is the Displayport which is already used for the connection to my Macbook, and the DVI-D 24pin which I tried to connect the G4 to. Unfortunately it does not seem like it's switching resolutions... I can't find anything in the settings either.
Is there any graphics card with DVI-D for the G4 available then?

[darthnVader]

Flashing a PC GeForce 6600/6800/7800 would give you Dual-Link DVI, however, sadly, you'd lose OS 9 support.

[davidivjak]

Ahhh damn. Unfortunately I'll need OS9 as the scanner only works with that in Photoshop 7.
What about the ADC port? Will this help: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Apple-ADC-to-DVI-Adapter/183770522491?hash=item2ac993a37b:g:bJwAAOSw5L5cr2Nd

Sorry for being so nooby 

[Astroman]

yes, this should do the trick (price is reasonable)
In that case you use the monitor's source selection button (leftmost on my Eizo) and you have to select the DVI port when the G4 is booting (stating the obvious).

[davidivjak]

Great! I just ordered it and will give it a try. I will update you then!
Thank you so far guys!

[GaryN]

Wet blanket here………

FYI: The ADC port on the G4 card is no different from the DVI port other than shape and carrying ADC monitor power. Your result connecting there with an adapter will be exactly the same.

HOWEVER: I looked at the Flexscan manual (too much time on my hands) and it appears that it should be able to negotiate and set itself to 1920 x 1200. BUT it says that in order to hit that resolution:

"The monitor must be connected using the DD200DL signal cable (DVI dual link) provided with the product"

Why you need to use a dual-link cable to transmit a single-link sized signal? No idea.
SO: Do you have that cable?
IF SO: Try it.

[davidivjak]

Thank you Gary for your advice!
I just checked it, it's the provided DD200DL signal cable. There's also an option on the monitor to display the image center scanned, but still, the G4 won't give me an image when booting up with the EV2736W connected.
Is there any kind of Nvidia driver that might help? 

[GaryN]

Here's an obvious but so far unasked question.

There are two sets of graphics extensions in OS9 - one for ATI and one for Nvidia.
Do you have the Nvidia extensions loaded and enabled and the ATI disabled?

[darthnVader]

As I recall, there is no Dual-Link DVI nVidia card that is supported under OS 9.

The only thing I can think of that may work, is to boot OS X, set the screen resolution you desire, then select the OS 9 install via the StartUp Disc and reboot.

[davidivjak]

Well, the adapter arrived and I gave it a try anyways. Now it is getting weird: I connected the EV2736W via DVI cable with the adapter to the ADC port of the nVidia card. When booting, the image of the booting loading bar appeared for a few seconds, then the grey menu bar on top and then suddenly the image turned black again. I tried booting with the ADC adapter on the 24" monitor, without success. Booting with DVI only works well.
When I tried to repeat the process with the ADC adapter on the EV2736W again, it just had the same problems as I would have connected it with DVI only. Absolutely no image anymore. But I had one for a few seconds??

@Gary: No, I don't have the Nvidia extensions, but I found the ones from ATI which are enabled. Where can I get the Nvidia extensions?

[GaryN]

@Gary: No, I don't have the Nvidia extensions, but I found the ones from ATI which are enabled. Where can I get the Nvidia extensions?

AAARRRGH!! You have an Nvidia graphics card! You absolutely MUST have the Nvidia extensions ON and any ATI ones OFF !!
All kinds of weird wrong stuff can happen otherwise - especially when you're trying to get an ancient graphics card to talk to and negotiate with a modern monitor! The graphics extensions - both the Nvidia and the ATI ones - are there primarily to "update" the hardware and enable it to work with / scale to various monitors, deal with Quickdraw, and all kinds of stuff.

This is no different than say, trying to drive a Canon printer with Epson extensions.

OS9 comes with two sets - one set each for ATI and Nvidia. Your Nvidia extensions should be in System Folder/Disabled Extensions.
You should have "Extensions Manager" which will allow you to disable the ATIs and enable the Nvidias.
If you don't, you can just find the ATIs in the "enabled" extensions folder and drag them to the "disabled" folder… then drag the Nvidias from "disabled" to enabled.
If you cannot find any Nvidia extensions in your system, you can get them from virtually any OS9 System Folder or download them from any OS9 System here.

The odds are excellent this will cure what ails ya. Let us know what happens.

[davidivjak]

Thank you Gary,

I just checked it and there were the Nvidia extensions actually enabled, but not the ATI drives disabled. Corrected that now.
Unfortunately, it doesn't show any change.

When I go to the System Profiler, it would say for my graphics card:

Integrated graphics card

Type: display
card name: NVDA, Display-B
card model: -1
Card ROM#: not available
card revision: not available
card manufacturer ID: -1
video memory: 32 MB

Furthermore, I noticed that the color settings are reseting automatically after every boot up to 256 color depth instead of keeping it at 16,7 Mio. Found this pretty annoying all the time, but hadn't spent deeper thoughts on it.

Does this give some more detailed information about the situation of the driver / extensions for the Nvidia card? Is there anything wrong you could tell from these things?

[GaryN]

You're a confusing kinda guy lol. Extensions on, extensions OFF, wax ON , Wax OFF.
It's simple: Nvidia card = Nvidia extensions ON, ATI extensions OFF.

I think I've got it, but you won't like it.

From Wikipedia:
…the DVI connector includes pins for the display data channel (DDC). A newer version of DDC called DDC2 allows the graphics adapter to read the monitor's extended display identification data (EDID). When a source and display are connected, the source first queries the display's capabilities by reading the monitor EDID block over an I²C link. The EDID block contains the display's identification, color characteristics (such as gamma value), and table of supported video modes. The table can designate a preferred mode or native resolution. Each mode is a set of CRT timing values that define the duration and frequency of the horizontal/vertical sync, the positioning of the active display area, the horizontal resolution, vertical resolution, and refresh rate.

Problem One: Your 27" monitor needs dual-link DVI to display its full resolution. The card cannot supply that.
Additional confusing issue: The card has a full set of pinholes, so you CAN plug a dual-link cable into it though the "extra" pins receive no signal.
Problem Two: You would think (note the italics) the monitor would just adapt itself to the incoming signal and scale to a viewable size, but evidently it won't.
Problem Three: The DDC-over-EDID signal (yeah, I know…arrgh!) also communicates the color resolution and such. So, since the monitor and Nvidia card aren't talking, the card keeps resetting itself to the "fallback" default: 640 x 480 @ 60Hz 256 colors. That's why the display goes black.

Remember, this all started just because you want to remove one monitor from your desk AND don't forget, you had NO trouble with the 24" single-link monitor. I have a 27" Samsung "Syncmaster 2770" that accepts the single-link signal from my stock ATI card in my G4 and scales it to full size.
I do NOT however, use it for film work. The pic, while generally OK would quickly drive me nuts for lack of fine detail.

I have no idea why your monitor won't "talk" to what is a standard DVI signal and at least display something.
It may (this is a guess) speak only DDR2 - which, although I would think that would be stupid, it wouldn't surprise me either. This is info NOT supplied in the manual (naturally) but would be typical of hardware-engineer thinking because after all, what kind of idiot would try to use something as old and obsolete as OS9 on a G4 in 2019? A real pro would certain have only the latest and greatest, right?

At the end of the day, honestly, if all you need to do to make everything work well for you is make space for two monitors (or find one that is more versatile) you're ahead of the game.

[refinery]

here's an idea... what about booting it with the 24", installing VNC software, then booting it with the 27" connected, connect remotely via VNC from another machine, and change the resolution to something that will display on the 27"?