Author Topic: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz  (Read 4829 times)

Offline Greystash

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Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« on: January 02, 2019, 04:22:46 PM »
I managed to get Mac OS 9 installed on my PowerBook with the help of some posts I've stumbled across (nanopico, iMic, and others) and the CD image located at http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2143.0.html.

First you need to boot into open Firmware and enter the following:

Code: [Select]
nvedit

dev /cpus/PowerPC,G4@0

80010201 encode-int " cpu-version" property

dev /pci@F2000000/mac-io/i2s/i2s-a

" screamer" encode-string " compatible" property

device-end

Now press Ctrl + C to exit the nvram editor.

Next type the following:

Code: [Select]
nvstore

setenv use-nvramrc? true

reset-all

The computer will now restart and you can either boot from the CD image listed above, or Mac OS 9 if it's been installed on your HD from the same image.

Installation
After restoring the HD image from the CD you must remove the following from the Extensions folder (within System Folder).
  • All ATI extensions
  • HID Library
  • The MultiProcessing folder

Now you will be able to boot OS9.

If these extensions remain in the system folder Mac OS 9 will not boot. The HID Library disables use of the trackpad. The ATI drivers are incompatible as the machine has an ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 (64MB) which was not supported by the OS.

When the system boots it says that there is software is missing for the Apple Keyboard/Trackpad. The keyboard works fine but the trackpad is incredibly slow, I used a mouse instead.

The screen will also be set to a ~800x600 resolution rather than 1280x854px. You can fix this by changing the monitor arrangement in the Monitors control panel. I got multiple resolutions + all colour ranges working using a modified Jasper driver (from darthnVader) here: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4593.msg33157.html#msg33157. If this driver is used the backlight will be turned completely off after the next reboot, so you will need to use a torch or something to light the screen, then go to the monitors control panel and change the brightness setting to zero (it has been reversed, most likey because this driver is for another GPU). It still appears that this is half the brightness of what the screen should be.

Sound also doesn't work (due to the screamer fix). The on-board audio doesn't appear to be supported by the Mac OS ROM.

In summary:
- The system boots and is usable with a mouse, and by either having no GPU drivers installed, or the fixed one listed above.
- Sound doesn't work
- Function keys don't work
- No Airport
- Haven't tested FireWire yet but everything else is functional!

If we can somehow get the correct GPU, trackpad and sound drivers this system would be amazing and super usable on OS9!! I have no idea how to do this but I'll do some research.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 10:43:42 PM by Greystash »

Offline FdB

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2019, 06:24:13 PM »
Dare I think that maybe a slightly brighter glimmer of hope now exists
for this beautiful 1.5 GHz G4 PowerBook 5,5 to not simply sit around
looking pretty… but instead to possibly & finally run OS 9? Greystash,
I’ve bookmarked this and your Andrea Fabrizi, Fan Control post too.

You have been busy. Thanks. (Hats off to nano, et al. too!)
This Must Be The Place

Offline GaryN

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2019, 09:26:17 PM »
Congrats and thanks to Greystash! You not only have pretty much gotten OS9 working there but you've also, for perhaps the first time here on the Forum, managed to explain the process in language the rest of us non code–monkey types can actually understand!!

I'll be wishing you luck for any more progress reports!

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2019, 04:59:31 AM »
I managed to get Mac OS 9 installed on my PowerBook with the help of some posts I've stumbled across (nanopico, iMic, and others) and the CD image located at http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2143.0.html.

First you need to boot into open Firmware and enter the following:

Code: [Select]
nvedit

dev /cpus/PowerPC,G4@0

80010201 encode-int " cpu-version" property

dev /pci@F2000000/mac-io/i2s/i2s-a

" screamer" encode-string " compatible" property

device-end

Now press Ctrl + C to exit the nvram editor.

Next type the following:

Code: [Select]
nvstore

setenv use-nvramrc? true

reset-all

The computer will now restart and you can either boot from the CD image listed above, or Mac OS 9 if it's been installed on your HD from the same image.

Installation
After restoring the HD image from the CD you must remove the following from the Extensions folder (within System Folder).
  • All ATI extensions
  • HID Library
  • The MultiProcessing folder

Now you will be able to boot OS9.

If these extensions remain in the system folder Mac OS 9 will not boot. The HID Library disables use of the trackpad. The ATI drivers are incompatible as the machine has an ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 (64MB) which was not supported by the OS.

When the system boots it says that there is software is missing for the Apple Keyboard/Trackpad. The keyboard works fine but the trackpad is incredibly slow, I used a mouse instead.

The screen will also be set to a ~800x600 resolution rather than 1280x854px. You can fix this by changing the monitor arrangement in the Monitors control panel. I got multiple resolutions + all colour ranges working using a modified Jasper driver (from darthnVader) here: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4593.msg33157.html#msg33157. If this driver is used the backlight will be turned completely off after the next reboot, so you will need to use a torch or something to light the screen, then go to the monitors control panel and change the brightness setting to zero (it has been reversed, most likey because this driver is for another GPU). It still appears that this is half the brightness of what the screen should be.

Sound also doesn't work (due to the screamer fix). The on-board audio doesn't appear to be supported by the Mac OS ROM.

In summary:
- The system boots and is usable with a mouse, and by either having no GPU drivers installed, or the fixed one listed above.
- Sound doesn't work
- Function keys don't work
- No Airport
- Haven't tested FireWire yet but everything else is functional!

If we can somehow get the correct GPU, trackpad and sound drivers this system would be amazing and super usable on OS9!! I have no idea how to do this but I'll do some research.

Cool, MOAL( Mother of all laptops ).

I've run into the inverted backlight before, may have something to do with the Mac OS ROM. For me pressing fn+brightness down worked, but if the function keys are not working, that can be troublesome.

Odd the ATY,Jasper driver works, I was thinking I made that for the Radeon 9600 Mobility.....

Offline Greystash

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2019, 02:32:30 PM »
I've been looking into creating/editing drivers for the GPU and Trackpad but keep hitting roadblocks. There seems to be very little/no information out there anymore for OS9 development..

If anyone could point me in the right direction, or give me some examples on how this has been done previously I would greatly appreciate it.

This would be a very usable OS9 machine if those two components worked correctly. It just needs the back-light boosted by ~50%, and trackpad compatibility. There are workarounds for sound so that's not a big issue.

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2019, 05:46:55 AM »
I've been looking into creating/editing drivers for the GPU and Trackpad but keep hitting roadblocks. There seems to be very little/no information out there anymore for OS9 development..

If anyone could point me in the right direction, or give me some examples on how this has been done previously I would greatly appreciate it.

This would be a very usable OS9 machine if those two components worked correctly. It just needs the back-light boosted by ~50%, and trackpad compatibility. There are workarounds for sound so that's not a big issue.

I spent a few hours working on the Trackpad issue, without any luck, I tried the HID and USB drivers from OS 9.1 (v1.4.6) and they didn't work any better.

I also tried USB Overdrive>use custom driver, but the mouse overdrive driver doesn't load for the trackpad.

I also removed the usb trackpad from the device tree in Open Firmware, but OS 9 probes the USB bus and finds it anyway, and it doesn't work any better doing it that way.

It's just a non-standard USB HID device, and OS 9 nor USB Overdrive know how to handle it.

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2019, 06:02:38 AM »

Offline Greystash

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2019, 11:25:32 PM »
Thanks for trying darthnVader! I'll keep hunting around and see if I can find anything useful regarding the trackpad. Will also have a play around with OF and the backlight.

Thanks!

Offline anthonybisset

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2019, 01:43:10 AM »
I'm about to try the unsupported 9.2.2 disk this on a Powerbook G4, 1.5ghz (boot rom 4.8.6f0)

What i'm curious about is:

Has anyone had success with getting the PCMCIA controller to work on these more recent machines?  I have a Korg Oasys PCI in a Magma chassis and have spent 8 or 9 hours trying to get it to run under Classic in 10.3.9 (tried Apple MIDI Manager and OMS.) Seems OMS cannot access the hardware via the OASYS PCI driver (which I believe is how the Synthkit application talks to the hardware when a *run* command is given.) So it seems I must go 100% native OS9 for this to work, however I've seen several reports that PCMCIA controllers aren't working on these later unsupported powerbooks.

Maybe the Magma pcmcia can work without the full pci controller implementation?


Gathering info before I rabbit hole.  Synthkit remains a very good platform for making physical models, hopefully I can get it working on this 1440x900 screen to make programming enjoyable (and laptops are typically quieter, so better in the studio.)
cheers,
A

« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 06:30:31 AM by anthonybisset »

Offline Astroman

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2019, 07:28:46 AM »
Gathering info before I rabbit hole.  Synthkit remains a very good platform for making physical models, hopefully I can get it working on this 1440x900 screen to make programming enjoyable (and laptops are typically quieter, so better in the studio.)
I agree on the equisite character of Synthkit (which fortunately opens even without a Korg card installed), but it easily filled my 1952x1200 desktop screen and I never enjoyed that Powerbook's keyboard.
A tower G4 Mac will be more quiet anyway... once the Powerbook's fan gets engaged.
You can replace the Mac's drive by a SSD and disengage some of the internal fans or drive them at lower voltage. I often use the 5V line instead of the regular 12V for fans, but take care the fan starts (some won't do at 5V).
Of course I carefully check components temperature with such reduced power settings.
(my G3/450 B/W with 2 Digidesign cards is a fairly quiet box, and I'm picky regarding noise)

Offline IIO

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2019, 11:20:26 AM »
A tower G4 Mac will be more quiet anyway...

yeah, when you turn it off mb. :)

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Offline S. Pupp

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2019, 08:34:54 AM »
I tried this on a PowerBook G4 5,7 1.67GHz 17" with no luck.
Now, holding down the Option key during startup to select an external FW drive, I have trouble moving the cursor with the trackpad.
How can I "undo" the Open Firmware changes?

Offline Greystash

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2019, 02:33:21 PM »
Boot into Open Firmware and pass the following commands:
Code: [Select]
reset-nvram
reset-all

Offline franklin_m

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2019, 05:23:57 PM »
I tried this on a PowerBook G4 5,7 1.67GHz 17" with no luck.
Now, holding down the Option key during startup to select an external FW drive, I have trouble moving the cursor with the trackpad.
How can I "undo" the Open Firmware changes?

S. Pupp, the trackpad is really slow in OpenFirmware. You need to wait 10-30 seconds, and then you can use the arrow keys to select the drive, and hit return to boot.

I got this to work using the images in the download part of the forum. OpenFirmware can be confusing, happy to help.

Offline hageir

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2020, 03:38:45 PM »
Thank you very much for this!
Works perfectly on one of my 15” 1.67 GHz G4.

I’m eyeballing a 12” iBook which has a trackpad and works like it should,
what exactly is the difference?

If I swipe really fast on the PowerBook G4 it seems to be ok (but is very slow)
it’s a mix up of the speed/percentage/sensitivity of the trackpad = interpretation of the OS.
I also notice that when I leave a USB mouse plugged in during a restart, it doesn’t initialize and the port remains “off”.

ps. there are some official .pdf documents from Apple called Developer Notes. Might be some useful information there.
I also looked at an archived version of developer.apple.com (during my FireWire research) and it has quite a lot of detailed information about building drivers and such.

Anyways, this was more than enough, now I have an awesome G4 computer with OS9 :)

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2020, 04:19:03 AM »
I wish this worked on the slightly-better DLSD version of the PowerBook G4 15". :( Just tried it on mine to confirm it with my own eyes. It's strange, because the hardware is nearly identical, but it's true it won't boot. (It shuts down when attempting to boot from the CD.)

@Greystash, any chance of giving us a break-down of all the OF commands and values used in your first post?

Offline Greystash

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2020, 11:59:54 PM »
I wish this worked on the slightly-better DLSD version of the PowerBook G4 15". :( Just tried it on mine to confirm it with my own eyes. It's strange, because the hardware is nearly identical, but it's true it won't boot. (It shuts down when attempting to boot from the CD.)

@Greystash, any chance of giving us a break-down of all the OF commands and values used in your first post?

For the 1.67Ghz model I found that it was the sound device that was preventing booting into OS9, as discovered by darthnVader when trying to boot do the same with an iBook. While this is an unrecognised device under OS9 It still worked and I had audio functionality after performing the Open Firmware commands below.
It's likely that the DLSD has other components that are unrecognised by OS9 and are preventing boot. You may be able to tinker with Open Firmware and the device tree to get things working however, all the 1.5 - 1.67Ghz models I have tested have unsupported track pads and I haven't found any drivers/extenstions that work. The track pads work but they're too painfully slow to do anything with. An external mouse works but it kind of defeats the purpose of having a laptop.

If you do manage to get it booting you may need to disable some USB extensions to get the track pad working.


Code: [Select]

1) nvedit

2) dev /cpus/PowerPC,G4@0

3) 80010201 encode-int " cpu-version" property

4) device-end

5) dev /pci@F2000000/mac-io/i2s/i2s-a

6) " screamer" encode-string " compatible" property

7) device-end


1) Opens the NVRAMRC editor
2) Selects the CPU device
3) Changes the CPU's 'cpu-version' property to '80010201'
4) Closes the CPU device
5) Selects the onboard audio device
6) Adds 'screamer' (audio device) to the 'compatible' property
7) Closes the audio device

Offline IIO

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2020, 02:02:29 AM »

I also tried USB Overdrive>use custom driver, but the mouse overdrive driver doesn't load for the trackpad.


isnt the trackpad connected via USB 2.0?
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Offline darthnVader

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2020, 04:04:12 PM »

I also tried USB Overdrive>use custom driver, but the mouse overdrive driver doesn't load for the trackpad.


isnt the trackpad connected via USB 2.0?

I don't think it really matters, it is an OHCI device, I don't see any need for it to be EHCI.

We'd have to get a look at the Linux driver for the USB tracpad and see what they did there.

The USB tracpads also don't work with OS X versions prior to the one these iBooks/Powerbooks shipped with.

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2020, 02:26:18 AM »
For the 1.67Ghz model I found that it was the sound device that was preventing booting into OS9, as discovered by darthnVader when trying to boot do the same with an iBook. While this is an unrecognised device under OS9 It still worked and I had audio functionality after performing the Open Firmware commands below.
It's likely that the DLSD has other components that are unrecognised by OS9 and are preventing boot. You may be able to tinker with Open Firmware and the device tree to get things working however, all the 1.5 - 1.67Ghz models I have tested have unsupported track pads and I haven't found any drivers/extenstions that work. The track pads work but they're too painfully slow to do anything with. An external mouse works but it kind of defeats the purpose of having a laptop.

If you do manage to get it booting you may need to disable some USB extensions to get the track pad working.


Code: [Select]

1) nvedit

2) dev /cpus/PowerPC,G4@0

3) 80010201 encode-int " cpu-version" property

4) device-end

5) dev /pci@F2000000/mac-io/i2s/i2s-a

6) " screamer" encode-string " compatible" property

7) device-end


1) Opens the NVRAMRC editor
2) Selects the CPU device
3) Changes the CPU's 'cpu-version' property to '80010201'
4) Closes the CPU device
5) Selects the onboard audio device
6) Adds 'screamer' (audio device) to the 'compatible' property
7) Closes the audio device

Thank you very much for this post, Greystash. It couldn't have been any more helpful and clearer. This is the first time ever that I have understood what is going on with OF commands. It feels great and very empowering. I'll get on this PowerBook's case very soon.

I'm personally not troubled by the lack of trackpads: I always plug a mouse to any laptop I use, even when trackpads work perfectly. I can still take the laptop around to places with the mouse, and sometimes I lay the mouse on top of the laptop itself, when they have enough space on top (like this PowerBook). What I really, really love about the PowerPC Mac laptops (and 68k?) is to type on their keyboards, look at their screens and their portability. They feel absolutely delicious to type on (really high quality keyboards), screen looks excellent and spacey, and yet, it's all compact and portable to be brought wherever I go. I just love it.

Offline Marlon

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2020, 07:03:22 AM »
Following =)

Offline teroyk

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2020, 08:44:37 AM »
Has anyone had success with getting the PCMCIA controller to work on these more recent machines?  I have a Korg Oasys PCI in a Magma chassis and have spent 8 or 9 hours trying to get it to run under Classic in 10.3.9 (tried Apple MIDI Manager and OMS.)

Maybe testing should start something simpler like PCMCIA card-reader or something. I don't know anybody who has managed OASYS PCI (or any another PCI-card that has only Mac OS 9 drivers) to work in Classic even supported Macs, I think you should boot to 9.2.2.
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline IIO

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2020, 07:22:43 PM »
dont use OMS and classic enviroment in one sentence.
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Offline DracheMitch

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.67Ghz
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2020, 07:11:08 PM »

I spent a few hours working on the Trackpad issue, without any luck, I tried the HID and USB drivers from OS 9.1 (v1.4.6) and they didn't work any better.

I also tried USB Overdrive>use custom driver, but the mouse overdrive driver doesn't load for the trackpad.

I also removed the usb trackpad from the device tree in Open Firmware, but OS 9 probes the USB bus and finds it anyway, and it doesn't work any better doing it that way.

It's just a non-standard USB HID device, and OS 9 nor USB Overdrive know how to handle it.

It’s not a USB device at all. Apple portables all used internal ADB connections for keyboard and mouse. On Mac OS 9, external USB input devices are actually run through a shim that translates the USB to ADB.

Offline DracheMitch

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.6GHz
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2020, 07:23:19 PM »

I also tried USB Overdrive>use custom driver, but the mouse overdrive driver doesn't load for the trackpad.


isnt the trackpad connected via USB 2.0?

The 5,6 PowerBook should have a USB trackpad, but it’s possible they have an ADB, as Apple was mixing ADB and USB for trackpads starting in 2005.  EverMac says 5,6 doesn’t have ADB but every machine has multiple board revisions and you never know with Apple.

Offline SDG

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Re: Working - Mac OS 9 on PowerBook G4 5,6 1.6GHz
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2020, 04:30:14 AM »

The 5,6 PowerBook should have a USB trackpad, but it’s possible they have an ADB, as Apple was mixing ADB and USB for trackpads starting in 2005.  EverMac says 5,6 doesn’t have ADB but every machine has multiple board revisions and you never know with Apple.

The PB 5,7 and 5,8 and the final iBook have USB trackpads. Prior to that all were routed via ADB hence applets like iScroll. It's part of the problem people find when they need replacement keyboards and try to mix and match across models.