Quicksilver Thread!

[refinery]

https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1126?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

not the right update:

Note: Power Mac G4 (QuickSilver) computers do not require this update.

[refinery]

I think most / all the old updates are HERE:  https://support.apple.com/downloads/macdesktops

They start with newer stuff but you can keep adding more results and slowly work your way back in time.

yeah looking through that page the only updates available for quicksilver models relate to hard drive firmware and optical disk burners.

[AlphaMac]

@part12studios If you're not using it more than a few hours at time you could step down to quieter fans with a little less CFM. The Noctua NF-A8 FLX is a good fan to explore at 29.7CFM. The SilenX too. I don't recommend going far below 30CFM for the PSU fan. Anything below 25CFM would be slowly cooking components. For the drive a SSD is a no brainer.

@Lehnartz I'm not sure what the point of reversing the airflow on the case fan is. The first thing that came to mind — being that it's the largest opening on the case — is that it would suck a lot of dust into the unit. Secondly, obstructing the suction side of the fan will create more noise, whereas obstructing the blowing side of the fan only slows the fan down a bit with no noise increase. Below is video.

https://streamable.com/tbe9b

I had a bunch of mod ideas when I started but realized the airflow direction is already optimized. So my goal became getting everything out of the way for air to flow as freely as possible. What helped a lot was enlarging the holes, eliminating the steel fan case, cutting out the steel PSU grill and the fan's rubber mounts. Each step reducing some noise. When you add it up it makes a big difference. The only mod I'm considering on my 733mhz is putting the PSU fan on the rear case, so it's outside of the PSU case — pushing air into the case and out through the rear port. This would keep a lot more noise inside the box.

I'm still amazed that this forum exists with new users joining. Before I joined I thought I was the only person in the world still running a G4 on OS9.

-AlphaMac

[AlphaMac]

I did a manual temperature log test today. I had the sensor right up against the back PSU port and made periodic observations. For what it's worth..

[IIO]

For info, my Quicksilvers...
933: board 820-1342B, Boot ROM 4.3.3f2, 160G PATA HD which shows as 128G!

weird.

[IIO]

Well, there’s always a bit of possible trickery (and resultant confusion) to contend with, ehh?

i always thought that the dual 1.0 was the only machine with 2 possible controllers (and that you can tell it from the serialnumber on the back.)

the whole topic is probably a bit uncovered because many people still use the original disc instead of putting a proper later model inside, which is bigger than 120 and, for what its worth, quiet.

[Lehnartz]

Wow!  Thanks @AlphaMac.  You made your point quite well.  That video in particular demonstrates why flipping the fan would be a bad idea.  I will keep to the original configuration.

I will be putting in the exact same power unit fan as you, the Noiseblocker NB-Multiframe M8-3 80x80x25mm.  For the chassis fan I will use a Silenx IXP7618 iXtrema Pro Fan which although thicker than most fans should still fit in the fan bracket (the specs indicate it should work -- the fan is 38mm thick and the fan bracket is 44mm deep.

Unlike you, and largely for the sake of simplicity, I do plan on using the fan bracket but I will cut out the grill as well as enlarge the holes on the case-plate on the other side just as you did (thanks for the tips). The Silenx I'll be using does not have openings in the corners of it chassis the way the Noiseblocker you used does. Because of this, nowhere near as much air will get blown inside the fan bracket so I am thinking (hoping) the noise effect of using the bracket should be less sever.  Plus its a quieter fan to begin with.

I am wondering what your thoughts are on tweaking the intake system of the CPU/heatsink? I know some people have covered the elongated oval slot in the top of the rubber holder with a piece of duct tape. On the page of Quicksilver mods I linked to in previous post the man stated that "the fan is not attached directly to the metal casing, but rather onto a rubber thingy. The problem with this rubber holder is that it does not cover the fan completely, so the air is not taken from the outside, but from the inside instead. Rather stupid construction, but easily fixed".

His fix was to cover not only the slot on top but the sides as well using some kind of rubber or foam, thus ensuring that more of the intake air came from outside the case.  While this makes sense in theory I am wondering if their was a reason behind the design, in particular the oval slot on top, and I am a little reluctant to do this.

http://www.thorburn.se/henrik/quicksilver/images/IMG_1017.jpg


One quick question for you or anyone else who wants to chime in.  I have read several places to be very careful when dealing with the power unit because of the stored voltage in it. What techniques or precautions do I need to exercise to change its fan safely?

[Protools5LEGuy]

Maybe it is time to combine the three currently active Quicksilver users into one thread here?
 
AlphaMac
rpschultz13
part12studios

Especially concerning hardware, HD upgrades, etcetera. Hmmm?

All the QS post that lately were here are united now HERE

[part12studios]

yea good point about the IDE jumper pin scenarios..  I see your point and yes in that case it would be worthwhile for the more expensive option because of those features.  I'll have to double check.  i'm pretty sure that there are two IDE cards on my G4 sawtooth?  I have two hard drives in my system and i'm pretty sure each has it's own dedicated ribbon..   so i could probably get away with no needing the master / slave stuff.. but still for the future maybe that will be needed..   but yea i'd love to have two SSDs..  one for the system and one for recording audio too..  although i doubt access time with ssd will be much of an issue and maybe just get away with one 120gb drive..

[Protools5LEGuy]

Hey boys look at this quicksilver pump!

A Nasa engineer talkin about fan intake vs exhale QS

http://powerpcliberation.blogspot.com/2014/10/power-mac-g4-cooling-project-phase-3.html

[FdB]

Hey boys look at this quicksilver pump!
A Nasa engineer talkin about fan intake vs exhale QS

AbFab! All the way back from 2014. Great info.

Wonder if fiftysixk knows urdvurk and his efforts with the MDD?
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3405.0.html

[FdB]

I think most / all the old updates are HERE:  https://support.apple.com/downloads/macdesktops
They start with newer stuff but you can keep adding more results and slowly work your way back in time.

yeah looking through that page the only updates available for quicksilver models relate to hard drive firmware and optical disk burners.

https://support.apple.com/downloads/macdesktops

https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1126?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

https://web.archive.org/web/20080418104426/http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86117

Thanks to refinery, GaryN and Protools5LEGuy for the Firmware / ROM updater sources. (Now all bookmarked!)

"Note: Power Mac G4 (QuickSilver) computers do not require this update".

*While the Power Mac G4 Firmware Update 4.2.8 is not noted as necessary for the QS, it is provided with (and was recommended) with the NewerTech MAXPower G4 processor upgrades for the QS and the Sawtooth. And… as the QS “A” boards shipped with the 4.2.5f1 Firmware, this might explain the need for that 4.2.8 Update for use with those NewerTech processor upgrades?

AND as the QS “B” boards have 4.33f2 Firmware… perhaps why I’ve had no success installing that NewerTech processor on a QS with a “B” board. [This begs the question(s) as to whether or not the the QS 4.33f2 can be downgraded  to the 4.2.8 firmware… or if it should even necessary with the “B” boards anyway?]

Eventually I’ll place an “A” board back into the 867 MHz QS and then attempt the 4.2.8 Firmware Update AND the installation of the NewerTech again. Seems that I now remember something of a sh*tstorm, surrounding the 4.28 update with the QS from all those many years ago. MAYBE it was due to the A vs. B boards and the individual firmware of each?

In the now-infamous words of IIO… “seems weird”.

[IIO]

soon i will just claim that everything dont understand or i dont know much about would be "wrong".

it is because i am getting older (which is really weird).

[part12studios]

Hey sorry if this is somewhat of a duplicate question, but amongst this thread which is a wall of amazing information, I can't seem to find the specific model of fan i should get that would be the quietest..  maybe it's on another thread, but i thought it was in here.  I remember it was roughly $35 or so.  I ordered the IDE / SATA adapter and SSD, just need the fan to order.

I'm in a music studio.. i'm replacing the HDD with a SSD so that will cut down some noise, but the fan is also a good noise generator as well so I'm looking for the quietest option.  If i can do any other mods to the case to help reduce sound I'm open to that as well.

Are there any other fans in the system?  I'm at work right now.  Does the PSU itself have a fan that I should be concerned about upgrading to reduce sound as well or just the one big system fan? 

Thanks,
Caleb

[part12studios]

Ok thanks for the message! so the noiseblocker sounds like the item I want to get..  and its a 1:1 swap?  I'm going to see if any local stores carry it and if not i see some online options for less than $20.. 

if someone has another super quiet fan with the 80x80x25mm dimensions..  2200rpm (no lower, as i guess 2200 might not be ideal).. any other factors i should be concerned with like pin connector compatibility or power/draw? 

[Lehnartz]

Well here is the new baby......





2002 Apple Power Macintosh G4 933MHz with 17 inch Apple Studio monitor, Pro Keyboard, Pro Mouse and all the original install discs.

Specs
https://everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_933_qs.html

I think the whole package was worth the $150 and 3 hour round-trip drive into New Hampshire.  She is in pristine condition -- barley a scratch on the outside and very little dust inside.  Everything works and she's not outrageously loud or hot.  The previous owner used it for video editing which is why it came with Final Cut Pro and the special Contour mouse which I’ve gathered can be used for FCP or Steinberg Nuendo (OSX only so won’t be much use to me).  Based on the condition of this computer I doubt it's been used all that much. Nothing looks upgraded inside, it all looks stock.

I plan on using this machine for audio not video.

A bit of background...

About a year ago they were cleaning out the attic at work and I was told everything was up for grabs.  In the corner, collecting dust amidst the cobwebs, was an old iMac G3.   Looking at it I had a sudden vision that there must be a robust group of geeky enthusiasts that still use these things, and share software and tips online.

I took it home and within an hour of Googling a large smile came over my face when I found this and similar sites, “Ah, ha......I knew it.....I knew it....I knew it”, I thought to myself.

But that is just how I got introduced. The addiction to OS9 didn’t start till I got the thing up and running with a clean install.  At first I was wondering if I was imagining things.  “Is everything really opening and happening this fast”, I thought to myself.  I installed more CPU intensive programs like Reason 2.5.  The performance of OS9 astounded me.  Is this 15+ year old computer running 15+ year old software really faster than today's computers running today's software?  Why are book-sized PDFs that would take a noticeable amount of time to open on my late-model Mac Book Pro opening instantaneously?  Have computers relative to their software been getting slower for the past 15 years? Has everyone in Silicon Valley lost their freakin’ minds?  Am I losing my mind?

I am now completely hooked to the blazing speed and performance of OS9.  When I loaded the new Quicksilver yesterday it booted into OSX.  A feeling of dread came over me.  I played around with it for all of 5 minutes and I was done -- I needed to get back to my happy place.  I quickly rebooted the machine into OS9 and a great big sigh of relief and feeling of calm came over me as it loaded with the familiar mac icon and sound.  There is was......OS9...... as simple and fast as ever.

Over the coming weeks I’ll be upgrading this Quicksilver and documenting it here.  I will have a bunch of questions along the way.  I am extremely thankful for this site and all the super helpful members who are always quick to lend a hand.


Here’s what I’ll be putting into the Quicksilver......





New PSU Fan
Noiseblocker NB-Multiframe M8-3,  80x80x25mm Fan (used but tested)
2200rpm
34.73 CFM Airflow
19.2 dBA


New Case Fan
Silenx IXP7618 iXtrema Pro Fan, SKU: IXP-76-18, 120 x 120 x 38 mm, Operating Voltage: 8-14v, Current Draw: 0.24A Power Consumption: 2.88w Bearings Type: Fluid Dynamic Bearings
1400 RPM
90 CFM Airflow
18 dBA


New SSD Hardrive
250GB OWC Mercury Pro Legacy 3.5-inch IDE/ATA Solid-State Drive Kit.
 I’ll create two equal size 120G partitions - one for system and one for storage.


New 1.5 K Ram (The maximum)
1.5GB KIT 3X 512MB PC133 APPLE Power Mac G4 Power Macintosh G4 M8493 MEMORY RAM


New NewerTech 3.6V PRAM Battery


New Thermal Paste under for Heatsink
Arctic Cooling ACTC-MX4 Thermal Compound Paste Grease 4Grams MX-

[Lehnartz]

@part12studios

Did you see the very handy PSU fan and Case fan lists that @AlphaMac posted earlier in this thread. They are now on page 1 of this combined Quicksilver thread.  They should give you all the info you need in replacing either of these fans  -- even gives you specs of the stock fans in the Quicksilver.

One thing I've read, posted either in this thread or another, is that you don't want to go any lower than 30 CFM for the PSU fan or you'll be slowly cooking your machine. 

Using AlphaMacs lists, you can find fans that match or exceed the CFM of the stock fans yet are quieter (lower dBA).

[part12studios]

yes indeed i did!  FdB got me on the straight and narrow..  i ordered one of those cheap IDE / SATA adapters because I'm good with a single SSD 120gb for my needs for the time being..  and I can vouch for how well they do/don't work for future generations! =D

Yea so I'm keeping it simple.. I ordered one of those quiet fans...  and for now i'm going to stop there for noise reduction..  i also ordered a ton of sound reduction foam squares to line my studio..  once those are in place I'll assess how much i care about any residual noise my machine might make..

now just waiting for the mail man to bring the goodies home.. 

I'm still trying to figure out though..  is it easy to upgrade an 867mhz G4..  and if it is, exactly what part(s) am i replacing.. is it popping out once CPU and sticking in another or is it more like a board upgrade? 

[Ninester]

Why stuff many drives or one big drive with many partitions in one basket..so to speak?

A Samsung 128G to ide card as Boot and a few mission critical audio apps. The price / performance ratio compared to OWC would be hard to beat?  All my data drives would be outboard via Firewire or PC card of choice compatible with OS 9. My thoughts are based on cheap usb3 outboard drives via pci cards. Cost and availability for the QS and the like, I have not researched but had used a usb card with my old B&W 300. As on my main PC desktop, all data drives can be removed, stored, and backed up when needed.  Puting all drives in one box is easier, but have learned that when one BIG drive fails...

My thoroughly baked "rescue" QS-DP runs very well now that dust and frozen fans have been blown out. All closed up, she runs breezy and warm.  From all the post scattered here and there old "Chernobyl" is not alone. When I want my QS to run quiet, I open the side door and use a small low speed box fan blowing directly across the DP heat sinks. Very quiet, effective..and cheap...SILENCE..i kill you!

[DieHard]

But that is just how I got introduced. The addiction to OS9 didn’t start till I got the thing up and running with a clean install.  At first I was wondering if I was imagining things.  “Is everything really opening and happening this fast”, I thought to myself.  I installed more CPU intensive programs like Reason 2.5.  The performance of OS9 astounded me.  Is this 15+ year old computer running 15+ year old software really faster than today's computers running today's software?  Why are book-sized PDFs that would take a noticeable amount of time to open on my late-model Mac Book Pro opening instantaneously?  Have computers relative to their software been getting slower for the past 15 years? Has everyone in Silicon Valley lost their freakin’ minds?  Am I losing my mind?

I am now completely hooked to the blazing speed and performance of OS9.  When I loaded the new Quicksilver yesterday it booted into OSX.  A feeling of dread came over me.  I played around with it for all of 5 minutes and I was done -- I needed to get back to my happy place.  I quickly rebooted the machine into OS9 and a great big sigh of relief and feeling of calm came over me as it loaded with the familiar mac icon and sound.  There is was......OS9...... as simple and fast as ever.

Many of us share your vision and observations...

From the original site (before the forum), in the early days... when it was just myself, Mactron, and a few core users

It feels fast... without a pretty, translucent GUI running over a Unix-based kernel there is nothing to slow OS 9 down. You click around and things actually happen, in real time, with no OS X spinning wheels or Windows circles to keep you guessing. For audio recording enthusiasts, many hardware interfaces with ASIO2 drivers yield an experience close to zero latency when playing virtual synths or drum machines. There are graphic artists, publishers, and writers that claim they can create projects faster with OS 9 because it "thinks" the way they do; they focus on one or two things (applications) at a time and see them to completion. It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create ?