Author Topic: OS 9 install problems with powerlogix 1.5ghz dual processor  (Read 823 times)

Offline cvdavidsonjr

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OS 9 install problems with powerlogix 1.5ghz dual processor
« on: November 06, 2018, 06:38:14 PM »
OS 9 install problems
I'm new to the forum and my problem is that I have a mac G4 cube in which I upgraded to a dual 1.5ghz processor.  I did update firmware to 4.1.9f in the past. I loaded os 10.4 and recently 10.5

I then decided to go back to os 9. Just purchased a 120GB apple hard drive and installed in my cube but when  I put an install cd in. I end up with little happy mac icon and after a few minutes end up with broken folder icon. My question is  this due to the processor or is it a firmware problem. Any help would be appreciated.

Offline FdB

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Re: OS 9 install problems with powerlogix 1.5ghz dual processor
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2018, 07:29:37 PM »
There’s no OS at all on your new 120GB HD? There have been instances reported that
without any OS already resident in some machines (and some necessary drivers etc.)
that it can be nearly impossible to install a new OS on a new HD.
(This may not be your problem.)

You were able to install and run both 10.4 and 10.5 on the old HD without problem?

Will a Cube boot into FW Target Disk Mode? If so, with another Mac attached…
you might be able to install over FW from this other  Mac. OR, pull the HD and
install it in a second Mac, install the OS there AND then move that new HD
back into the Cube.

And then there’s the possibility that you’re not using the appropriate version
of OS 9 for your Cube.

Perhaps a friendly Mac Cube owner will chime in here eventually
with more specific help / suggestions?
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Offline IIO

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Re: OS 9 install problems with powerlogix 1.5ghz dual processor
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2018, 08:08:13 PM »
you should at least add which OS9 rerlease you try to install and what kind of CPU upgrade that is, sonnet or powerlogix?
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline cvdavidsonjr

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Re: OS 9 install problems with powerlogix 1.5ghz dual processor
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2018, 12:02:25 AM »
Powerlogix 7447a I've tried  all os 9's. I used another mac to install os leopard using  firewire 400 but I have no  old macs with earlier os every mac I have has leopard. Last time I have had os 9 was updated for installing firmware update. None of my original 9.0 4 disc work even retail ones seams that since I installed leopard on my G4 cube nothing lower works. The hard drive I have now was completely wiped. I  could format it by firewire  but then I would have no os drivers  since leopard doesn't install them.

Offline cvdavidsonjr

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Re: OS 9 install problems with powerlogix 1.5ghz dual processor
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2018, 12:28:03 AM »
Powerlogix 7447a I've tried  all os 9's. I used another mac to install os leopard using  firewire 400 but I have no  old macs with earlier os every mac I have has leopard. Last time I have had os 9 was updated for installing firmware update. None of my original 9.0 4 disc work even retail ones seams that since I installed leopard on my G4 cube nothing lower works. The hard drive I have now was completely wiped. I  could format it by firewire  but then I would have no os drivers  since leopard doesn't install them.
I'm going to try two installs I've found one of those is for unsupported macs will let everyone know if successful. If not only option is to buy a old imac that has os 9 and firewire and go from there.

Offline IIO

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Re: OS 9 install problems with powerlogix 1.5ghz dual processor
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2018, 03:27:54 PM »
if you have an 10.4 or 10.5 machine somewhere, you can also boot from there with fw.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline FdB

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Tiger / OS 9 & Cube
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2018, 08:17:16 PM »
if you have a 10.4 or 10.5 machine, you can also boot from there with fw.
Yup. But may have to format that new HD (outside of the Cube first) in order for it to be recognized via FWTDM??? I may have a G4 Cube here in the next day or so (complete with crashed HD) to test all of this on (as it will also require a new HD).
Like I really need another G4. ::)

Now, written earlier for cvdavidsonjr:
If you’ve no “production deadline” or other dire reason to have this Cube up and running immediately with your new HD don’t get in a hurry and buy another Mac if none are readily available to borrow / use. Even Mac OS X (10.4.1 - Tiger) with the two, gray installer disks* does provide the option of installing OS 9 drivers and OS 9… which you could possibly use as a starting point if the solo OS 9 “Unsupported Installer” does not work for you.

NOTE: *Retail Tiger, MA453Z/A came two ways: One as a single black DVD (disc 2Z691-5305A - without OS 9) AND as Tiger 10.4.1 gray 2-disc set (disc numbers: 2Z691-6022-A and 2Z691-6023-A) which did have OS 9 installers included. Both retail versions of Tiger (10.4.1 & 10.4.6) had the Apple Retail ID of MA453Z/A on their box which has confused the hell out of everyone and continues to do so. The black Tiger DVD / 10.4.6 does provide the option of installing OS 9 drivers... it just does not include a version of OS 9 to run solo or in “Classic mode” like the grey 10.4.1 disc set does.
If someone does have a two disc-set of Tiger 10.4.6… please advise.

So if you don’t have your Cube’s original installer disc set (or you do but still can't boot from it) and the “Universal Installer” does not work for you, you might try Tiger 10.4.1.
If you do have the original installer disc set, Have you tried “Option-key” booting with one of the original disc(s) already in the drive OR possibly booting it into open firmware (also with installer disk pre-loaded in drive)? See: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4658.msg33605.html#msg33605
With the CD/DVD in the drive and machine shut down, boot into Open Firmware (holding down Option and Command and the “o” and “f” keys at startup) until the Open Firmware “text screen” shows. Then at the Open Firmware prompt, type:  "boot cd:,\\:tbxi" (exactly as shown, without the quotation marks) and then hit enter.

What’s your “alternate” Leopard-running Mac, that I assume you’re using to log on with?
Again, still awaiting another G4 Cube owner here to possibly chime in.
Still hope that the "Unsupported Installer" works.

Without an onboard fan and that PowerLogix processor, bet that Cube's a ho-lotta-hotta?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 09:34:43 AM by FdB »
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Offline IIO

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Re: OS 9 install problems with powerlogix 1.5ghz dual processor
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2018, 08:49:00 PM »
to reformat he could boot into disk mode. both is new when it is new to someone. :) but maybe still less work than disassembling hardware?
(if i had a cube or of i needed to open a mini i would just replace the HD with a bigger one at the same time)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline cvdavidsonjr

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Re: OS 9 install problems with powerlogix 1.5ghz dual processor
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2018, 07:56:37 AM »
I've managed to install tiger and leopard. And classic mode works fine. I have 7 partitions and wanted to have os 9 all the way up to leopard. My rom  is 4.1.9f after I installed the powerlogix processor.  With out a way to install os9 drivers on all 7 partitions I can't install puma,  jaguar, panther on the remaining. Thought it would be neat to have the cube with multiple boots. But I'll  try and find an old mac on ebay with os 9 and install by firewire using restore it's probably going to be the only way I can acomplish this thanks to all for your help and support.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 08:53:04 AM by cvdavidsonjr »

Offline IIO

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Re: OS 9 install problems with powerlogix 1.5ghz dual processor
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2018, 12:10:35 PM »
the OS9 driver will go on the whole disk.

backlup data, reformat, is the only was to go - in case it is actually missing (did you check?)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline GaryN

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Re: Tiger / OS 9 & Cube
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2018, 06:34:28 PM »
The black Tiger DVD / 10.4.6 does provide the option of installing OS 9 drivers... it just does not include a version of OS 9 to run solo or in “Classic mode” like the grey 10.4.1 disc set does.
Point of Order……

This is now moot as far as this thread goes BUT I have a 10.4.6 DVD #2Z691-5811-A which does include OS9 Classic. However, it's buried in the OSX tome and not readily visible.
As far as I know, ALL retail releases of Tiger included OS9 Classic.

Offline FdB

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Tiger / Classic / Standalone OS 9
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2018, 10:13:34 PM »
(I).
BUT I have a 10.4.6 DVD #2Z691-5811-A which does include OS9 Classic. However, it's buried in the OSX tome and not readily visible.
As far as I know, ALL retail releases of Tiger included OS9 Classic.
OR:
(II).
Classic is NOT installed in the basic Tiger installation.
The OS9 System Folder resides on a second "Additional Software" disc originally packaged with the Tiger DVD. When you first try to run an OS9 app, you're prompted to go fetch the other disc OR your previous OS9 disc if you have one. Naturally, by now in 2017, many of these pairs of discs have been separated leaving us dummies trying to figure out why there's no Classic on the Tiger DVD…
(III). Now I am confused. You say Classic’s there, whereas before you stated that it required a lost “companion” disc… or one’s own previous OS 9 disc. Question: So have you been able to install OS 9 Classic, using only the 2Z691-5811-A DVD without the previously mentioned, lost “companion” disc OR another previous OS 9 disc? If so, then I have struck the following:
it just does not include a version of OS 9 to run solo or in “Classic mode” like the grey 10.4.1 disc set does.
I’ve the same single 2Z691-5811-A DVD install disk from Apple Retail Tiger 10.4.6 MA453Z/A …  and I suppose that some might be happy running OS 9 in Classic mode, if truly possible with the single Tiger 2Z691-5811-A install DVD. (Doesn't count on anything other than a completely wiped HD, in this case.) Initially, I thought that a standalone-bootable OS 9 would have been the preference for this G4 Cube… instead of "Classic mode" OS 9. And my apologies, I haven’t the time at present to try the “Classic” install with the single Tiger DVD on a clean HD. (But ya know normally... I would otherwise.) ::)
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Offline FdB

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« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2018, 01:01:02 PM »
Just wiped and re-installed OS X (10.4.6 on now-nefarious G3 iBook / aka: “Moby Dick”) from the single 2Z691-5811-A DVD install disk… from Apple Retail Tiger 10.4.6 MA453Z/A… and while an OS 9 “Classic” file of some sort may be buried in an OS X tome on the DVD, there’s no option to install “Classic” via this route on a clean, wiped drive.

Perhaps “Classic”  (with Tiger) is dependent upon having OS 9 already present on the drive at the time of the 10.4.6 install? Which would not achieve a dual-boot state (unless OS 9 was already on another partition or other resident HD). Classic “prefs” do show up under Sys Prefs in 10.4.6 after  installing OS 9 (using Universal Installer), whereas it isn’t an option present before.

Check this previous thread detailing dual-boot set up on the G3 iBook using either MacTron’s Bootable Rescue CD & Repair Disk, or the Universal Installer in conjunction with OS 10.2 as a base install: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4556.msg32729.html#msg32729 Note: 10.2 ≠ 10.4.6 and a G3 iBook ≠ G4 Cube… but one may glean the *gist of the approach. (*M-O-M / method-of-madness)

Today, after installing 10.4.6 on 1st partition… then installed OS 9.2.2 on the 2nd, using the Universal Installer again to do so.

Thusly, unable to install OS 9 Classic on a wiped drive… only with the Tiger 2Z691-5811-A DVD. I could be mistaken, but I did try... and try & try, again.

“The white whale tasks me“  -Ahab

Anyone need a well-used 800MHz G3 iBook?
I am so very tired of this white whale. (cheap) ;)

And, glad that cvdavidsonjr was able to successfully get Classic up and running, but as suggested by IIO… maybe backing everything up and then installing solo OS 9 from the Universal (or MacTron’s BRCD&DR) discs on one of the partitions (before moving everything back from backup for the others)… might be the route to take for a bootable OS 9 install? Then again, maybe not possible with the Powerlogix 7447a?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 01:26:17 PM by FdB »
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Offline GaryN

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Re: OS 9 install problems with powerlogix 1.5ghz dual processor
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2018, 02:41:54 PM »
I would quote and re-quote the quotes that have been re-quoted but …what was I talking about?

Oh yeah, excuse me…I guess. I maaaaay have typed "DVD" when I meant "CD" last year. This subject has been going around like the flu for a long time now and I can't really say.

(I) The Tiger CD package had Classic on a second "Additional Software" disc.

(II) The Tiger DVD package had Classic buried in the installer package.

(III) I tried to dig out the exact files last night with Pacifist but it kept crashing, possibly/probably due to a Mojave issue. It can be found if it matters by anyone with a little determination. Possibly by running Pacifist on an image of the Tiger DVD rather than the DVD itself - I did not and do not have the time or ambition to try it.

Offline FdB

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Re: OS 9 install problems with powerlogix 1.5ghz dual processor
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2018, 05:38:43 PM »
From LowEndMac:
“2006 – Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger ships on DVD media. There are several possible workarounds. Apple will let you send in your Tiger install DVD along with $9.95 and they will replace it with a set of OS X 10.4 install CDs.” (Old info… no more from Apple.) So it seems that there were no Retail OS 10.4.6 CD packages available, unless you sent your original DVD to Apple for a “trade in”. However, OS X 10.4.6 Combo is still listed on Apple's site... so maybe it can still be ordered?

For a much broader overview of Tiger and its’ inherent install quirks, also from LowEndMac (and Adam’s Oakbog website): http://lowendmac.com/2009/tips-for-installing-or-reinstalling-mac-os-x-10-4-tiger/

Here’s another little gem from the above: “Restoring to an external FireWire drive would also work, from which you could (then) boot up and install.”

And as “This subject has been going around like the flu for a long time now” …my focus here is to once-and-for-all arrive at possibly definitive answers concerning Tiger and OS 9 / Classic installation pratfalls & characteristics.

https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-2541 - Apple

Also from  Apple: This will also allow using Classic in the Tiger booting session if installed from the Mac's original restore discs and/or retail installer for 9 if newer than those discs. https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-1757

Still, unable here to locate any OS 9 (or “Classic”) version on the Tiger install DVD and am still left with the notion that OS 9 must come from “elsewhere” to operate from a bootable partition or under the “Classic” mode. Maybe cvdavidsonjr can enlighten us as to when, where and how his “Classic” ability originated? Or, someone else?
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Offline cvdavidsonjr

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Re: OS 9 install problems with powerlogix 1.5ghz dual processor
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2018, 05:52:36 PM »
Today using os 9 classic I was able to open restore in which all my partitions were visible. Had the this disc is not installable on this system but there again I was using a os 9. 2.1 restore disc so if I can get my hands on an os 9.2.2 restore disc it just might work from this point.

Offline GaryN

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Re: OS 9 install problems with powerlogix 1.5ghz dual processor
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2018, 04:04:15 PM »
Still, unable here to locate any OS 9 (or “Classic”) version on the Tiger install DVD and am still left with the notion that OS 9 must come from “elsewhere” to operate from a bootable partition or under the “Classic” mode.
Like I said…it's buried in the installer archive. It worked like this:
1) You install Tiger - your existing ≤OS9 apps were kept along with the newer OSX apps
2) The first time you attempted to launch an old app or open a doc created with an old app, you'd get a prompt to insert the Tiger disc and it would extract the OS9 Classic version app and install it.
3) From then on, Classic would open in a window every time you needed it, unless you set prefs to always launch it at startup.

You CAN substitute a bootable OS9 or an alias to it in place of the Classic version. BUT to have it operate as Classic, you still need to run the Classic installer because you need the Classic Support files to create the windowed environment it operates in. AFAIK, there's no advantage to using a bootable OS9 as the Classic System.

On a Tiger DVD, you have to crack the Tiger install archive open to find the Classic app folder and associated files. The only app I know of that will do that is "Pacifist". This is an "OSX version" of the old "Tomeviewer"

You can get it here: https://www.charlessoft.com/

Offline FdB

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Re: OS 9 install problems with powerlogix 1.5ghz dual processor
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2018, 06:24:50 PM »
Like I said…it's buried in the installer archive. It worked like this:
1) You install Tiger - your existing ≤OS9 apps were kept along with the newer OSX apps
2) The first time you attempted to launch an old app or open a doc created with an old app, you'd get a prompt to insert the Tiger disc and it would extract the OS9 Classic version app and install it.

Precisely. Like I said... but we're talking about a drive that has been completely wiped so there is no pre-existing ≤OS 9 or OS 9 apps present. (i.e. Tiger was not installed "over" any other OS.) So there’s no OS 9 for Tiger to use under Classic mode. cvdavidsonjr attempted to install OS 9 after first installing Tiger but could not.

Without an OS 9 System already present, there’s no OS for “Classic” to utilize and it’s not on the Retail Tiger install DVD. (It is on the grey, Software Restore original discs for specific Macs.) And just now, when attempting to open an OS 9 app copied over from OS 9 to a Tiger-alone based system… the Tiger dialog box (attached pic below) appears.

So, perhaps it’s best to format, partition & then install OS 9 (whatever flavor possible) especially in this instance, first… and then GO Tiger? Highly doubt that you’ll find any version of OS 9 on a Retail Tiger Disc to be utilized under the Classic mode. The Classic “shell” is there, but of no help without OS 9.

But should you find it… do let me know. I’ll be very surprised. And no, I never use Classic… when I can boot OS 9 all-the-live-long-day.
*Note: I didn’t specifically choose to install Classic on the recent Tiger-solo install here and it did not appear in the Sys Prefs until after
I had installed OS 9.2.2 on the second available partition and rebooted.
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Offline GaryN

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Re: OS 9 install problems with powerlogix 1.5ghz dual processor
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2018, 09:17:15 PM »
bidehbidehbidehbideh…………aarrrrgh!
I am going to have to put this on hold for the moment. I've already put waay too much time into it.
When I can, I'll take another stab at digging in the Tiger archive.
The only other way I can prove this is by doing a fresh Tiger install on a virgin HDD - preferably on a computer WITHOUT a copy of OS9 on any other mounted volume. THAT is something I don't have at the moment without assembling another one from parts or trying to light up my old Titanium or, or , or

I'll get back to you.