Author Topic: MDD temperature readings  (Read 1194 times)

Offline Andre Solomko

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 34
  • new to the forums
MDD temperature readings
« on: October 07, 2018, 04:34:33 AM »
Hello... maybe that was beaten here but what are your readings and what is healthy for g4 CPU? I have dual 1,2ghz board.from Fw800  and it goes about 56-60 celsium. Would. Like to see your readings to compare.

Offline FdB

  • Moderator
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 434
  • And then...
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2018, 06:27:49 AM »
Dependent upon how you’re actually arriving at that particular temperature reading AND what all you’ve got installed and running inside of that MDD (in addition to the dust/dirt build up on all internal fans and their current working condition)… 56˚ to 60˚C (with 60˚C = 140˚ F) seems a bit on the hot side to me.

You might check all your fans’ functions and clean them as necessary and consider replacing / renewing the heatsink paste. I don’t have a FW800 up on the bench right now for exact comparison… but the dual 1.25 GHz FW400s here, typically run up to around 56.6˚C / 134˚F (under load and extended run time). With fan cleaning and overall interior dusting (and new heatsink paste) that operating temperature does drop.

Dusting, cleaning and new heatsink paste is just good preventive maintenance procedure on these old-ish machines… and not all that difficult to do. If I can today, I’ll check a FW800 here and maybe others will report their FW800 temps in the meantime?

See: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3957.msg26823.html#msg26823 and read through the rest of that thread. (And… the use of steel wool is not recommended.) ;)
This Must Be The Place

Offline GaryN

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 903
  • active member
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2018, 01:37:12 PM »
Mid-50s C is in line with my Sonnet-enhanced FW400 and two MDDs that came before it - one 1GHz and one 1.42GHz. There's no difference between FW400s and FW800s as far as temps go. They use the same MBs and CPUs. Under serious load, you will see temp creep up toward 60C That should NOT be an issue as long as the fan RPM increases accordingly. That said…

Clean and reinstall new thermal paste! This is critical!!

The fans will run harder:
1) in OS9 with all of the load on one proc.
2) Under proc-intensive tasks (rendering video for example)
3) If you have the interior stuffed full of PCI cards and HDDs
4) If it's dirty inside

Offline Andre Solomko

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 34
  • new to the forums
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2018, 03:00:01 PM »
Thanx for coming.  I have a pretty fresh paste and no dust. Its a heavenly modded mdd 1,25 single with processor board from fw800 dual.
Insiide is  ATX psu and digi001 . Optical drive bay removed for an airflow sake. There are about 5 coolers runnuing on slow speed What is funny i cant measure a temp on 9..2 but i think if is less  because fans are  runnung on full speed and on tiger they kick in only after 60 degrees MDD was a dumb desigh from beginning as you know and needs a reengineering.

Offline GaryN

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 903
  • active member
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2018, 05:20:43 PM »
What is funny i cant measure a temp on 9..2 but i think if is less  because fans are  runnung on full speed
There is a firmware mod to relax the fans in OS9. I don't remember where I found it but someone else here probably does or I can dig it up.
MDD was a dumb desigh from beginning as you know and needs a reengineering.
Well, it's a little late for that now… BUT I think it's actually a pretty brilliant design when you consider they managed to put three ATA buses with connections for four HDDs and two optical drives along with two processors, four PCI slots, the AGP display slot and a PSU that runs all of that and powers a Cinema Display to boot in a cool polycarbonate shell. Sure, it's noisy and has a few little issues, but nothing you can't correct and when you consider it dual/triple/quadruple-boots, runs 10.5 really well and absolutely blazes on OS9…

Offline Andre Solomko

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 34
  • new to the forums
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2018, 11:18:59 PM »
Yes its brilliant idea to put all this stuff in an actually bw case. The only hole which is responsible for  air intact is at the front benearh the case and is fully crowded. Those corporate assholes knew of a problem very well and " resolved "  it by simply increasing  power of a 12 sm main fun. And because apple was always pretty cheap they choose a worst and noisiest one they could find in all China :D And it was an Apple's flagship product at the time.. Yes it can be fixed. Its ok for me to bother because my 2 mdd i bought for a 100 euros roundly but i remember it to be 2000+ at the time. Interesting what happy customers felt when they heard it brand new...Not speaking of PSU now. But i asked people only about temperature readings since i dont know what apple thinks ok. By default temp monitor app keeps treshhold at 62 and seems to be  they new s omething because at this point osx gives a command to full speed.

Offline OS923

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 330
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2018, 08:27:31 AM »
Thermograph says 23°C/26°C for my MDD after hours of use. Is this a reliable program? Which is the best program to check the temperature in OS 9?

Offline FdB

  • Moderator
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 434
  • And then...
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2018, 10:11:26 AM »
Which is the best program to check the temperature in OS 9?

OS 9? No idea. One of the reasons I also maintain a small, separate drive for an OS X boot. With that in mind… short answer to your question: “I don’t know”.

I use Marcel Bresink’s Temperature Monitor https://www.bresink.com/osx/LegacyProducts.html (Free) and two different versions (4.7 and 4.98… the first for Panther 10.3.8 and the second, recommended up to and including 10.6 Snow Leopard). I’ve never tried ThermographX: http://www.kezer.net/shareware/thermographx/ but may do so, eventually.

May be that OS 9 alone, does run an MDD that much cooler?

23˚ to 26˚C seems rather “cool” as I normally get higher (upper end) running operating temps on MDDs under OS X here, right around 57˚C (134˚ F) with Bresink’s Temperature Monitor. And, as all readings from any such software based temperature apps may vary somewhat… I also place a simple HVAC thermometer into an MDD exhaust and check that temp too, just for comparison.

Right now, I’ve a Mac mini -1.83GHz - Core 2 Duo running Snow Leopard that’s showing 108˚F (42.2˚C) at the exhaust with an HVAC thermometer and these Intel-based minis normally run very hot. Hotter than an MDD usually in my experience… so this reading is surprising to me.

*All MDDs here are downstairs and I’m working upstairs today, or I’d provide an HVAC exhaust temp from one of those too.

I’ve yet to try the laser temperature devices for checking temps of heatsinks.

Give Bresink’s a try (with an OS X boot) and report back please with your readings. Thanks.

Anyone else care to comment? Shirley? ;)
This Must Be The Place

Offline Andre Solomko

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 34
  • new to the forums
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2018, 02:48:28 PM »
Well i got a single 1,25 in stock complectation. So it runs at 40. Fully loaded in osx.. Gan garantie that cooler in OS9.  So even 55 is a bit hot comparing to stock cooling. Maybe a reason that 2 processors finally died for me at one day....Maybe its a coincidence.

Offline OS923

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 330
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2018, 06:01:37 AM »
The lowest temperature that I have been running a MDD is 12°C with OS 9. I must say: there's a big difference between 1 or 2 HDs at the ATA-100. When I used 2 HDs the temperature was much higher.

Offline Andre Solomko

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 34
  • new to the forums
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2018, 09:01:20 AM »
I am second to suggest Breasink software. Looks too good to be true with thermograph.

Offline OS923

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 330
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2018, 02:35:54 AM »
I used Fragmalizer to look into Thermograph to see which functions it uses. Then I wrote my own program:
Code: [Select]
SInt32 cpuNr=1;
MPCpuID cpuID;
OSStatus osStatus=::MPGetNextCpuID(reinterpret_cast<MPCoherenceID>(kInvalidID),
                                   &cpuID);
while (osStatus==noErr)
    {
    const SInt32 temperature=::GetCoreProcessorTemperature(cpuID);
    if (temperature==kCantReportProcessorTemperatureErr)
        {
        cout << "Can't report temperature." << endl;
        break;
        }
    cout << "CPU " << cpuNr << " temperature = " << temperature << " degrees Celsius." << endl;
   
    cpuNr++;
    osStatus=::MPGetNextCpuID(reinterpret_cast<MPCoherenceID>(kInvalidID),
                              &cpuID);
    }

Offline GaryN

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 903
  • active member
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2018, 03:09:08 PM »
The lowest temperature that I have been running a MDD is 12°C with OS 9. I must say: there's a big difference between 1 or 2 HDs at the ATA-100. When I used 2 HDs the temperature was much higher.

12ºC ????  That's 54ºF……less than room temperature unless you live above the Arctic Circle!

Logically (and this is a computer we're talking about so what else if not logically) that's absolutely impossible. That should be obvious.

Offline Braris

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • New Member
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2018, 05:57:06 AM »
Maybe his cooling system is just that good. haha

Offline OS923

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 330
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2018, 07:46:21 AM »
12ºC ????  That's 54ºF……less than room temperature unless you live above the Arctic Circle!
Here in Belgium it can be -25°C. If it's -5°C then it's 12°C where my computer is.

Offline Andre Solomko

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 34
  • new to the forums
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2018, 09:57:57 AM »
That explanes a  lot.  If you are runnung it a cold garage or something its not a fare reading. Be carefuul of condensate dear collegue. At _-5 it can be an issue.

Offline GaryN

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 903
  • active member
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2018, 03:46:32 PM »
Yeah. I also really want to know where you keep the damn thing.
Out on a porch with a wireless keyboard and the display pushed up against a window?
Seriously man, maybe you've been crunching code just a little too long…

Offline refinery

  • Consistant Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 85
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2018, 06:16:58 PM »
who knows, maybe he's got one of those sweet copper 1.42 heatsinks. I have one on mine and I consistently get temperature readings that leave me scratching my head. sure enough, got out the thermal infrared thermometer and that heatsink is only like 25F above ambient.
G4/MDD 1.42 (9), G4/GB 500DP (X), Beige G3 400 (9), PBG4Ti 1Ghz (X), PBG3WS 300 (9)

got my mind on my scsi and my scsi on my mind

Offline FdB

  • Moderator
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 434
  • And then...
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2018, 07:42:18 PM »
Maybe so Refinery. But… an MDD running well below 100˚F (38˚C) warmed-up and @ top operating temp? What’s ambient temp in your room?

Why do I keep hearing Paul Harvey (in my head) saying: “And now, the rest of the story”?

OS923 did state that the “lowest temperature” he’d been running his MDD was @ 12˚C / 54˚F. Certainly @ initial startup with a cold ambient room temperature, temperatures will measure low at startup. However, after an initial “warm-up” to “operating temperatures” (30-45 minutes) I’d assume that a much higher operating temperature is attained and reported (well over 12˚C)?

I wonder what Knezzen’s initial startup temps might be (farther north than Belgium) if he boots “The World’s Fastest MDD” in a cold room with his copper heatsink (with his windows open?). And then, what is his top OpTemp? [He reported 40˚C / 104˚F… running Leopard before the copper heatsink… http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4144.msg28489.html#msg28489 read down further through that thread (Reply #9 especially) for more info.]

And…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIlW-ovx0Y
OR…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2R3FvS4xr4 ?

After writing his own temp monitoring program (based loosely upon how ThermographX is written / implemented) does OS923’s new program provide option for initial temperature calibration(s) within the program, for increased accuracy? Or is that even necessary? AND, does the newly written program provide any differing temp readings over what ThermographX had previously reported?

All perhaps, begging the question of “just how hot does OS923’s MDD actually get on the high-end” after adequately warming up to optemps under OS X and OS 9?

The question remains. OS923, what is your top/highest operating temperature, running both OS 9 and then OS X? And what's the ambient temp in your room at the time?

Who knows… indeed?
This Must Be The Place

Offline OS923

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 330
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2018, 09:25:57 AM »
The lowest temperature after using several hours was 12°C. (Lowest at boot was 7°C.)

I have the copper heatsink.

My own program showed the same results as Thermograph.

I haven't installed OSX, but eventually I can boot from a Tiger DVD but how can I then measure the temperature?

I'm not sure about the highest temperature. I think around 35°C.

Offline FdB

  • Moderator
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 434
  • And then...
MDD Copper Heatsink
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2018, 09:09:40 PM »
I have the copper heatsink.
I'm not sure about the highest temperature. I think around 35°C.
Yet another... MDD Copper Heatsink disciple.
Operating temperatures reported under 100˚F (37.8˚C) drives some of us a bit crazy.
[54˚F (12˚C) just seems unbelievable, my apologies.]
As for running Bresink's with a booted Tiger DVD... wonder if you could place Bresink's
on a USB thumb drive and run it from there while booted from the DVD? Just a thought.
Other than that, you might need a resident 2nd boot drive with OS X & Bresink's to boot from.
This Must Be The Place

Offline OS923

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 330
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2018, 01:02:34 AM »
It's running now at 4°C higher than room temperature. Next week it will freeze in Belgium.

Offline OS923

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 330
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2018, 07:51:59 AM »
Going down.

Offline ELN

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 233
  • new to the forums
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2018, 05:52:44 PM »
Point of interest: the GetCoreProcessorTemperature function makes a system call to the NanoKernel, which in turn calls the CPU Plugin. This is one of the two code paths that crashed the mini under OS 9, because the ?7447a does not expose its internal temp sensor via THRM registers. I patched the kernel so that the mini also returns kCantReportProcessorTemperatureErr.

Offline OS923

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 330
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2018, 06:51:20 AM »
I used Fragmalizer to look into Thermograph to see which functions it uses. Then I wrote my own program:
Code: [Select]
SInt32 cpuNr=1;
MPCpuID cpuID;
OSStatus osStatus=::MPGetNextCpuID(reinterpret_cast<MPCoherenceID>(kInvalidID),
                                   &cpuID);
while (osStatus==noErr)
    {
    const SInt32 temperature=::GetCoreProcessorTemperature(cpuID);
    if (temperature==kCantReportProcessorTemperatureErr)
        {
        cout << "Can't report temperature." << endl;
        break;
        }
    cout << "CPU " << cpuNr << " temperature = " << temperature << " degrees Celsius." << endl;
   
    cpuNr++;
    osStatus=::MPGetNextCpuID(reinterpret_cast<MPCoherenceID>(kInvalidID),
                              &cpuID);
    }
It has to be:
Code: [Select]
MPCpuID cpuID=kInvalidID;

Offline OS923

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 330
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2018, 06:03:14 AM »
Here's a similar program:
http://www.macprogramming.info/2011/04/page/4

Code: [Select]
#include <power.h>
#include <Multiprocessing.h>
#include <MultiprocessingInfo.h>
void    InitializeToolbox( void ) ;
void  main( void )
{     
    InitializeToolbox();
    Str255 theString1 ;
    MPCpuID cpuID ;
    MPGetNextCpuID((OpaqueMPCoherenceID *)kMPInvalidIDErr, &cpuID) ;
    NumToString( GetCoreProcessorTemperature(cpuID), theString1) ;
    ParamText(theString1, "\p", "\p", "\p") ;
    NoteAlert(128, NULL) ;
}   
void  InitializeToolbox( void )
{
    InitGraf (&qd.thePort);
    InitFonts();
    InitWindows();
    InitMenus();
    TEInit();
    InitDialogs( NULL );
    InitCursor();
    FlushEvents(everyEvent, 0);
- — -
}

He makes the same mistake of not initializing cpuID.

Offline OS923

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 330
Re: MDD temperature readings
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2018, 06:04:42 AM »
I can't find the documentation for GetCoreProcessorTemperature.
Sometimes it returns kCantReportProcessorTemperatureErr.
Thermograph says in this case "The computer does not support temperature measurements. Please refer to the manual for more info."
Why would that happen?