Author Topic: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2  (Read 580 times)

Offline Andre Solomko

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Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« on: September 09, 2018, 11:16:00 AM »
Hello! If anyone remembers how to set it up? I am getting annoying message that there is no driver for it. Press ok it works except of numlock part.
Anyone?

Offline Fury deBongo

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2018, 12:55:53 PM »
Which "exact" keyboard (please describe in greater detail - Apple number would be nice) are you trying to use?
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Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2018, 04:13:01 PM »
this one. thanks

Offline Fury deBongo

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2018, 04:21:52 PM »
I use the very same model (personal favorite here) on several MDDs running OS 9.2.2.
Zero problems. Do you have something "different"  plugged into the keyboard's USB ports?
(ZAP PRAM / rebuild the desktop.) Disconnect non-apple USB devices and test.
New or recent OS 9.2.2 install?

Is this the same MDD you were having boot problems with and suspecting the PSU?
Has that situation been solved /rectified before this problem?
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Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2018, 04:31:03 PM »
Thanks I am not a newbie and of course have tried all this usual shamanism. Its not about PRAM etc. There should be a file somewhere is system folder but I don't remember which. Maybe in applications /apple or something.

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2018, 04:34:56 PM »
It reports that it can't find a software for a apple keyboard. After I press OK it works but no numlock

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2018, 04:46:06 PM »
Ought yes about PSU. I just rewired  a PC PSU. Actually I have to MDD. On both installed a PC PSU Problem is gone

Offline torvan

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2018, 05:01:02 PM »
You might want to do as suggested--zap PRAM/NVRAM.  You could also boot with Extensions disabled so you can see if there is an Extension conflict.

Try using it in a different USB port, or try USBOverdrive and see if it works fine.

So, in order:

1. Does another USB keyboard work? If so, then the issue is more with the keyboard. If it does not. . . . .  .
2. Unplug they keyboard and plug into another USB port. If it works, cool-might be a dead USB port or a dead keyboard. If it does not......
3. Grab USB Overdrive and install it. If it works, cool. If not. . . . . .
4. Boot with MacOS9 Base extensions. If it works, then you have an Extension conflict.  If not.....
5. Zap PRAM/NVRAM. If that works, cool. If not: I am out of ideas.

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2018, 05:08:29 PM »
Thanks but the same keyboard works on the same machine with Tiger. So its about OS9

Offline Fury deBongo

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2018, 05:11:15 PM »
There are seven fully functioning MDDs here and after resurrecting all of them with OS 9.2.2, I’ve never been asked for a “keyboard driver”. (Although occasionally, I do wonder why one or another of them won’t boot… then discover that they simply aren’t plugged into power.) ::)

Have you possibly disabled any of the necessary USB drivers, extensions or the actual Keyboard Control Panel in the Extensions Manager? Sounds like possibly this may be the case.

And thanks Torvan, great detailed approach to possible discovery. (I’m out of ideas too.)
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Offline torvan

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2018, 05:32:04 PM »
Thanks but the same keyboard works on the same machine with Tiger. So its about OS9

Well that only satisfies a single thing--that it works on another OS.  Then move to the next step.

Offline GaryN

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2018, 10:08:36 PM »
Based on your pic, you have the "Apple Keyboard" A1048 made from 2003 to 2007. Although it post-dates OS9, it is supposed to be compatible with OS 9.0.4 forward.
I have and have used the preceding model "Apple Pro Keyboard" M7803 (with the USB ports on a top "extension" on each end). That's the acrylic that came with the MDD in black or white keys from 2000 to 2003. It has the same requirements of OS 9.0.4.
My kbd has a clear / num lock key which is actually labeled as both with an LED that will not light (though another LED on the "caps lock" does). It works in both 9.2.2 and 10.5.8 as a "clear" when using the Calculator but NOT as a "num lock" in any app I can think of. in fact, in OS 10.5.8, I get a complaint sound if it's pushed anytime other that in Calculator.
It reports that it can't find a software for a apple keyboard. After I press OK it works but no numlock
What do you mean "no numlock"? when? How?
Since the num keys (and indeed, virtually ALL num keys on Mac kbds) do NOT serve dual-functions for up, down etc. there's no reason for even having a num lock key on a Mac kbd. that's why your "clear" is labled only "clear".

As for the "can't find software for an Apple keyboard", all of the code for kbds is in the OS.
There is the "USB Device" Extension 1.5.9 which needs to be active but I'm guessing that's NOT your issue because virtually nothing USB works without it.

Is there a chance this is an error from a 3rd party extension or Control Panel / app? I only ask because we have to guess since we can't see it.
If it's a Mac OS error message, I can only guess you have something missing from the base System and unless someone here is a ResEdit genius who knows exactly what to look for, you should reinstall a new OS9 from a different source.

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2018, 11:46:16 AM »
Thanks for reply.  ASP reports ir to be Apple Extended keyboard ID524 driver version 1,5,9 (Mitsumi Electronics) if its matter.
So on startup it reports that can't find a software needed for USB device Apple extended keyboard. Anyway it works with a generic driver I guess and see it as USB Hoob but bum pad not working I would like to get read of annoying message on startup No more. Thank

Offline Fury deBongo

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Re: Apple Keyboard MDD OS 9.2
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2018, 12:45:15 PM »
Pardon my utter ignorance here, but what is a “bum pad”? Some USB device (connected to keyboard/hub)
that’s not recognized by the “HID Library” extension in OS 9 ...that is possibly causing this annoying message?

Same Apple Extended keyboard (Mitsumi Electronics) with Driver Version 1.5.9
shows up here on MDDs working under OS 9.2.2 without startup message.
Do you have something "different"  plugged into the keyboard's USB ports?
Disconnect non-apple USB devices and test.
New or recent OS 9.2.2 install?
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Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2018, 01:18:55 PM »
Pardon my rush on typing I meant "numeric pad". OK PROBLEM IS SOLVED. It was a HID extension by itself.
It was turned off. I haven't used a machine for a while and don't remember how it disappeared from my Pro Tools extension set.
Extension by itself is not needed but it gives this annoying message. what to num pads some buttons stopped working altogether messing things out even more, I have to figure out how to fix it. Would be a shame to give up such a lovely keyboard

Offline GaryN

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2018, 05:17:02 PM »
Toot Toot ! (my own horn ;D ;D ;D) Exactly as I thought…a 3rd party extension

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2018, 12:38:04 PM »
Apple extension actually. But yes and thanks for a help for everyone. What is really strange for me why in the hell you need a HID extension to make this thing running.As I mentioned it works without it anyway. 20 yeARS OLD BUG...question can be left for a doomsday

Offline Fury deBongo

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Apple Pro Keyboard
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2018, 01:18:56 PM »
Congrats! Glad that you’ve figured it out. I would definitely ZAP / Rebuild… upon restart
to see if that would help fully recognize your keyboard and “num pad”
...if it has not done so already after reboot.

Also, quite relieved here… because the image below is all that I could find concerning
“bum pad”. Thought you might have possibly meant “drum pad”…
an altogether different type of “enhancement”. ;)
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Offline GaryN

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2018, 03:14:35 PM »
Pardon my rush on typing I meant "numeric pad". OK PROBLEM IS SOLVED. It was a HID extension by itself.
It was turned off. I haven't used a machine for a while and don't remember how it disappeared from my Pro Tools extension set.
Extension by itself is not needed but it gives this annoying message. what to num pads some buttons stopped working altogether messing things out even more, I have to figure out how to fix it. Would be a shame to give up such a lovely keyboard
I dunno Andre…the more we discuss this, the more confused i get.
I have never, repeat never in all my years on Macs, from my first Mac Plus forward, seen an Apple HID extension…period.

HID is a "thing" common to Windows PCs, and if it ever "crosses over" into Mac-land, you can probably thank Microsoft for stuffing it into your System folder along with the hundred-odd other MS Word, Office, Excel etc etc little garbage piles needed to run their products that end up just laying around in the Extensions folder even though you never use and don't need them.

However, I repeat: I've never, ever seen an HID extension or file of ANY kind in a Mac System…period.

The only "keyboard drivers" needed to run an Apple keyboard with an Apple Mac computer are built in. That's part of the Mac philosophy "It Just Works".
So, I'll stick with my conclusion that it's a 3rd party extension messing up your startup that doesn't belong. There may also be other things in the System folders interacting with it as well.

NOTE: I have been known to be wrong, not often, but nobody's perfect. If this is a real Apple extension, I'd love to see it. Upload a copy and we'll see what ResEdit can tell us. I'd also love to see a screenshot of the error message too.

Offline IIO

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2018, 04:23:02 PM »
Apple extension actually. But yes and thanks for a help for everyone. What is really strange for me why in the hell you need a HID extension to make this thing running.As I mentioned it works without it anyway. 20 yeARS OLD BUG...question can be left for a doomsday

it functions the same way as in OSX i think: HID is built into the OS, but when you have third party HID kext installed, such as from logitech, it can happen that it pushes in the foreground and claims a newly connected device (despite a different manufacturer); removing it will fix the issue.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2018, 05:02:27 PM »
 Here you go. "Just works"doesn't sound very scientific. More like a marketing slogan. Never used a Mac plus but did enough of macintoshing and Hackintoshing nowdays to know that anything needs drivers and nothing "just works" in a computer world.. Anyway if you take a look at your system folder you will see exactly the same extension. This one what I am posting is taken from Mac OS9,2 universal iso what is uploaded on this site. Also why would I use Microsoft office an OS9 Mac? I have a Hackintosh with Sierra what I am using to post this. I am running PT and Logic and all usual suspects on my MDD

Offline GaryN

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2018, 07:04:09 PM »
"It Just Works" IS a marketing slogan. BUT it's also a philosophy of integrating stuff in software so that stuff, well, just works. No zillions of extra driversand such required. It's something you can do when you control BOTH the hardware and the software as Apple does.

Now…I forgot all about "HID library" because I have never used, needed or had it active. So, I take officially back what I said about there being no such thing in Apple-Land.
Here's the official synopsis:
"HDLib is used by Input Sprocket. It must be present to use many USB gaming devices and Microsoft Intelli Mouse."
AND
"HID Library is required to use the volume controls and the eject key on the new iMac and PowerMac G4 keyboards. (Apple Extended USB Keyboard)"

…neither of which you have. I DO notice however, a suspicious black looks-like-a-mouse-cord plugged into your kbd in the pic you posted.
Might that be a 3rd-party mouse? Just a wild guess, but anyway, you say the error is gone now that the HID is turned back on so we'll have to chalk this up to on of those mysterious things that happen when you run 20-year-old software…

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2018, 12:54:23 AM »
Yes Gary lets chalk this up to!  "HID Library is required to use the volume controls and the eject key on the new iMac and PowerMac G4 keyboards. (Apple Extended USB Keyboard) . Thars a keyboard what i have. its all because of volume eject buttons which i definitely have. Anything what goes beyond a generic. Kkeyboard driver integrated in OF even NEEDS a driver! Somebody have to tell to OS wat that button  means. In this case its a HIDlibrary What to mice its a generic usb and i never used a third part software for it.

Offline Astroman

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2018, 07:20:51 AM »
you're absolutely correct in technical terms that a 'driver' is needed - Gary just wants to point out that this (kind of) driver is and always has been a part of the regular system software. ;)

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2018, 08:42:35 AM »
Yes yes i think i understood Gary s point. Actually its nothing to argue about.

Offline DieHard

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2018, 11:06:28 AM »
I have always left the 9.2.2 HID extension in there... I assumed it held definitions about "Human Interfaces", I also assumed it meant "Human Interface Driver/Devices" and was needed for some USB items for humans only... like keyboards; aliens from Mars do NOT need this driver and obviously use the mind to input data into a G4; since it cropped up in 9.2.2, I figured it might have been a bridge for running 9.2.2 in classic.

At any rate, Mactron even uses this baby on his barebones extension list, so I never questioned it... as you know, if Mactron left it in there, it is definitely needed since he like to recover every last scrap of memory and loads only the bare balls of what is needed. 

M.A.R.L. (labs) may give us a final insight on this controversy...
1) Who originally engineered the "HID extension"... Apple ?  A third party for Apple ?
2) What hardware is mapped out in there ?  Only keyboards ?
3) Why do we even want to know ?
4) Who misplaced my Biscotti ! ? I need breakfast

Offline Andre Solomko

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2018, 01:46:12 PM »
You answered all your questions by yourself.
Apple was ruled by Reptiloids as well as MS and their products is a masterpiece of allien technology as everyone knows. It is a progressive mission masked
by business,   it's too advanced to be human and sometimes they live for the best of us (smartest ones) some clues such as HID
Only allien and very advanced one could invent Microsoft Windows because its beyond human logic even...Or OSes which every year getting heavier for few gigabytes  doing basically the same thing....compare please Mac OS 10,3 and 10.12. All advanced features are not for humans..Thats why most of people don't even use them or even aware of them. Let me stop there

Offline Fury deBongo

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Biscotti Envy
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2018, 02:35:25 PM »
Testing with the following four different Apple USB keyboards, with the HID Library extension “off” and running Mac OS 9.2.2… only the original iMac keyboard (M2452) did not display the keyboard dialog box (image below) at startup. In addition (also with the HID Library extension “off”, with all four keyboards) the second (+image below) also displayed the Apple Cinema Display dialog box as well. (With mouse connected to Cinema Display USB port and directly into machine’s USB port.)

(1). Original iMac USB keyboard  M2452 (2). Extended Acrylic  M7803
(3). Extended Model  A1048 and (4). “Chiclet” Extended  A1243.

Given now typical efforts to pare down, or to minimize the total “basic” number of extensions necessary and with the intended goal of maximizing overall performance… some may attempt turning this HID extension off. (I have done so in the past.) Certainly it is unnecessary when using an original iMac keyboard… but yet there are other, possibly heretofore unknown resultant effects, apparently. Leave it on.

Awaiting M.A.R.L. labs’ insight. And at least someone has  “misplaced” Biscotti. :(
This Must Be The Place / RH-SC Resident Hoarder - Studious Collector

Offline GaryN

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2018, 03:45:55 PM »
Egad, what a cluster! I find, upon reviewing all communications in this thread, that I played a significant role in passing on my mis-reading mis-interpreting mis-understanding complete idiotic confusion and generally contributing to a awful lot of wasted time and energy on everybody's part.

My bad. My sincere apologies to all.

Also, thanks to the resident hoarder studious collector Fury deBongo for having four different keyboards on hand to demonstrate the relationship between said units and the "HID Library" extension which now appears to have been proven to exist pretty much only to enable the volume and eject buttons…

Coming next week: Mice! What the Hell do all of those buttons do?? Why is the Magic Mouse too small for all but Chinese children's hands? Is the click wheel an Illuminati plot?

Stay tuned…

Offline mrhappy

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Re: Apple pro keyboard mdd os9,2
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2018, 08:09:27 AM »
Illuminati plot

Gary, thanks for the reminder... I keep meaning to order a six pack of "Lou Malnati" deep dish pizzas from Chicago!!!

Tip: The heart shaped ones score major points with the 'significant others' ! ;D

https://www.tastesofchicago.com/category/Lou_Malnatis_Pizza