Author Topic: What is the simple way to do a Firewire 400 boot drive?  (Read 2470 times)

Offline ThunderSock

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What is the simple way to do a Firewire 400 boot drive?
« on: August 25, 2018, 11:55:41 PM »
I just want to do a quick storage upgrade for my cube and imac g4. I'm trying to improve the speed and capacity.

Offline DieHard

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Re: What is the simple way to do a Firewire 400 boot drive?
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2018, 09:36:15 AM »
I just want to do a quick storage upgrade for my cube and imac g4. I'm trying to improve the speed and capacity.

OK... not really understanding the question... I am assuming you want a larger drive and don't want to replace the internal on the cube or iMac ?

Please search the forum, we have the whole FW400 thing covered in great detail; we also have the hardware guides to replace the internal HDs of both items.  an Internal SSDs would be the best upgrade, Large mechanical are second, Booting to FW and running everything via the FW drive is 3rd

Offline IIO

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Re: What is the simple way to do a Firewire 400 boot drive?
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2018, 12:14:31 PM »
if i need to make a firewire boot drive i take my complete OS9 system folder from the internal disk, copy it to the firewire drive, and thats it.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline ThunderSock

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Re: What is the simple way to do a Firewire 400 boot drive?
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2018, 07:27:30 PM »
Sorry, all I did was skim some of the threads before posting last time. Now here's a more informed question:

Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/Firewire-Enclosure-2-5-inch-Laptop-Bus-powered/dp/B001P1D16I
What do you think of this enclosure for a external; bootable; firewire 400; SSD for OS 9?

Offline FdB

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Inexpensive Firewire Case
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2018, 08:58:11 PM »
Looks good. Understand small footprint /portability.

Yet, if you’re not too cramped for space… here’s a larger one
(that can also accomodate 3.5 inch SATA drives as well)… NEW for “slightly less” on eBay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Name-Brand-Iomega-Quality-USB-Firewire-3-5-Hard-drive-enclosure-case-for-Mac-PC/361235059474?hash=item541b499312:g:vAcAAOSwXRpbLHZn#shpCntId

And with a FW800 to 400 cable… well, Bob’s yer uncle. Und, it’s trapezoidal!
Also comes with power puck & assorted cables.
Might have to get a 800 to 400 cable? (Around $4.00.)

Amazon 22.99 + 5.29 + 7.99 = $36.27 (7.99 for power puck, without cable) Smaller 2.5 case version.

eBay 6.99 + 7.95 + 4.00 = $18.94 (with 800 to 400 cable) Almost half-price.

I think I just sold myself on one. Wrote to the eBay seller asking about the 800 to 400 cable.
(Wal-Mart or B&H Photo sources, otherwise.)

See: http://lowendmac.com/2018/review-7-iomega-mac-companion-hard-drive-enclosure/

*And of course, Amazon's asking $29.99 for the same Iomega trapezoid / “Mac Companion”.
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Offline macStuff

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Re: What is the simple way to do a Firewire 400 boot drive?
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2018, 10:52:01 PM »
did anyone order that 2.5" case?
any reviews on build quality?

Offline IIO

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Re: What is the simple way to do a Firewire 400 boot drive?
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2018, 05:24:20 AM »
What do you think of this enclosure for a external; bootable; firewire 400; SSD for OS 9?

1. if you buy a new product, why not choose firewire 800 ports.
2. dont use it usb & usb-powered if you like your mac.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline ThunderSock

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Re: What is the simple way to do a Firewire 400 boot drive?
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2018, 09:00:06 PM »
I'm getting the trapezoid. I can report back if you guys have any questions.

But why shouldn't I power a drive over USB? I like my mac.

Offline Astroman

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Re: What is the simple way to do a Firewire 400 boot drive?
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2018, 01:27:17 AM »
the hint above refers to use an unpowered USB-Hub as mentioned in another thread.
Obviously these can exceed power ratings by presenting multiple power requests to a single USB port on the Mac side.
Some SSD may draw a lot more power than one would expect on a drive without motor.

Offline IIO

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Re: What is the simple way to do a Firewire 400 boot drive?
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2018, 04:59:50 AM »
HDDs usually take more power than USB provides. that´s why some enclosures come swith a dual usb cable.

no problem to attach it via a powered hub - if you wreck this, you loose 3 dollars.

not so on your mini on on a last generation MBP. :)

with firewire (if the enclcosure supports it at all) or usb 3 it will always work to run 2,5" disks, including 15k rpm drives.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline FdB

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Trapezoid Firewire/USB
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2018, 03:57:27 PM »
The Iomega “trapezoid” [Mac Companion] firewire enclosure arrived today and it came with a firewire 800 to 400 cable too. Most difficult part was carefully pushing the thing through the bottom of the metal frame to install that little LED indicator. (See weird, attached “install image”.)

I may not install the top metal shield as it’s a little difficult to get on & off… and of course I’ll be changing various drives in and out of the enclosure (as I have done already). As for the top plastic trim piece with the Iomega logo, I may “buzz off” or grind down the little plastic latches to more easily access future HD changes. [Seems like once that top plastic is “latched / locked” in place… might be too difficult (or near-impossible) to get it back up and off again for drive changes.]

AND… it’s a no-function, without the 12 VDC power puck attached. So no increased power demands for your machine. And… no simultaneous use of firewire and USB… it’s one or the other, period. Probably not designed to swap drives in & out, but if careful... might do this duty. And for the price if it gets buggered, simply buy another.

All-in-all… not so bad for $14.94.
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Offline mrhappy

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Re: What is the simple way to do a Firewire 400 boot drive?
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2018, 07:18:12 AM »
ordered a 'Trap' to go with the matching iMac. ;D

Offline ThunderSock

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Re: What is the simple way to do a Firewire 400 boot drive?
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2018, 02:22:19 PM »
Mine came in too but it won't work unless I cycle the power on the enclosure every time I restart. It works fine once its going, but the computer doesn't see it until I unplug it and plug it back in.

Do you guys think its a dud?

(My dad did put the package in the fridge for a few hours, he thought it was medicine)

Offline IIO

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Re: What is the simple way to do a Firewire 400 boot drive?
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2018, 03:09:33 PM »
well, mabye it is medicine? did you look inside already?

if it is a firewire version of viagra, it might not boot OS9 at all!
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline FdB

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Simple Way - Firewire 400
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2018, 05:13:29 PM »
Yes, it will boot OS 9 and OS X….

But I’ve encountered the exact same behavior with a Samsung SSD, formatted while in the Mac Companion… via FW 400 with a Quicksilver. So I tried the unplug-replug approach and it booted. Thought it might be the firmware version of the enclosure but… both a Seagate Barracuda and Western Digital SATA HD (both originally formatted within the Quicksilver) do mount AND boot while within the Companion, without plugging-unplugging. I even reformatted the Western Digital in the Mac Companion and am currently installing OS 10.4 on one of its’ partitions… so that result remains yet to be known. I’ll get back to this later tonight or tomorrow.

For now, you might just consider the unplugging as a “necessary sequence of events” with whatever drive you’ve installed… or get a switchable power strip that you can rock off and on for mounting/ booting with that drive?

Seems to be drive-specific in nature... perhaps in how-formatted and on which machine?

Other notes: I’ve had this one attached to a 2009 iMac (2GHz Intel Core Duo running 10.11.6) and a G4 Mac Mini running OS 10.4 and OS 9.2.2… both with an small SSD in the thing and it mounted - no problem via USB, FW 800 to 400 and even FW 800 to 800. Took it downstairs and inserted a full-sized SATA (Seagate Barracuda) drive connected to a G5 and it would mount and be recognized via 400 and USB but couldn’t / wouldn’t boot via any connection. (This does now mount and boot on the Quicksilver.) Earlier, installed the Instant DAW on the Samsung SSD (connected via FW 400) to the Quicksilver and it would not boot from that 400 connection. After reading your post, then during startup (after selecting it as the startup drive) as it was seeking the drive… I unplugged the power and then re-inserted and it booted from the SSD.
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Offline FdB

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Simple(?) Way - External FW
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2018, 08:14:37 PM »
Internal SSDs would be the best upgrade, Large mechanical are second, Booting to FW and running everything via the FW drive is 3rd
Lacking a G4 Cube or a standard  G4 iMac here -- "testing" was done with the Iomega Mac Companion using various types of drives and OS installs before focusing on a Samsung 120GB SSD. Used a 1GHz DP Quicksilver with the SSD mounted and formatted inside, using an Addonics (thanks billyboy, I'll send it back to you soon) SATA bridge to install OS 9.2.2 and OS 10.4.6 on two separate partitions... before then moving the SSD back into the Iomega enclosure for boot/mount tests on the Quicksilver, a 20" G4 iMac (FP) and a G4 Mac mini (with the MacOS9Lives OS 9.2.2 Mini install).

The OS 10.4.6 partition mounts and boots on all three machines via (800 to 400 cable) firewire. OS 9.2.2 is another story. 20" iMac (FP) won't boot any version of OS 9 anyway... and the mini (nor the Quicksilver) will boot the installed OS 9.2.2 either. However, the mini will even boot the OS 10.4.6 partition... via USB connection. (Go figure that one out.)

Iomega/Samsung SSD does mount and is available for file writes/transfers now (without un-plug / re-plug ritual). As for being an external boot drive in other than "emergency" recovery situations... DH's insight concerning the internal SSD installation being optimum, is dead-on. This is a very flexible little enclosure but as far as being an external boot drive to possibly increase overall performance... not so much.

As I recommended this enclosure to you... if you'd prefer to try your first choice instead, I'll buy this one from you if you wish and you can then try the other one. PM me. This one's going back upstairs to be shared between the newer iMac and the Mac mini.
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Offline ThunderSock

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Re: What is the simple way to do a Firewire 400 boot drive?
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2018, 08:04:00 AM »
That's very generous, but I can find other uses for an external sata enclosure.

I agree that replacing the internal drive is usually preferable, but the g4 imacs are a different story. The hard drive lives at the very top of the base section and you have to tear down most of the computer to get to it. This is by no means impossible, but wow that's a tough break.

Offline ThunderSock

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Re: What is the simple way to do a Firewire 400 boot drive?
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2018, 11:36:15 AM »
Sorry for double posting.

Does anyone know of a model that definitely boots mac os 9? Ideally it would be firewire + sata.

Offline Astroman

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Re: What is the simple way to do a Firewire 400 boot drive?
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2018, 12:54:19 PM »
I use an old LaCie D2 Quadra (USB2, FW400, FW800, eSata - internal connection is Sata).
Recently booted a Mini-G4 with it. Compared to modern enclosures it's a chip graveyard...
But it's not your premier choice in open/closing the enclosure (read pita), so I just leave the bottom plate on the table and slip drives in and out.

Offline FdB

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How many ways... FW?
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2018, 05:19:30 PM »
...but the g4 imacs are a different story.
Indeed. Found myself considering the HD to SSD replacement in the 20” G4 iMac (FP) late Saturday night when I was testing the Iomega enclosure… as I had opened the iMac to upgrade the RAM and battery… but it’s “against my religion”  to tackle such projects that late at night. (Damage usually ensues.)

I use an old LaCie D2 Quadra. Compared to modern enclosures it's a chip graveyard...

Chip graveyard? ;)  I’ve an old EZ Quest Cobra (massive boat anchor) IDE - Firewire 400... and a G-Drive (with internal SATA) FW 800 & 400 and both will boot OS 9. Fairly easy access for drive changes.

But the most handy & portable is the very small, 10GB VST Firewire Hard Drive. (Rare now and pretty pricey as per the last one we saw available on eBay recently.) And you don’t want to even attempt opening one up. (Even I  would not.)

DieHard uses these: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4522.msg32650.html#msg32650

Then, there’s always my own aberration… mentioned in the post just above his, using a Seagate STAE102 and the 9 pin to 6 pin FW 800 to 400 converter. http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4522.msg32646.html#msg32646  (I think I’ve even booted a mini with it.) ::)

Happy hunting!
If anyone does try your first choice  https://www.amazon.com/Firewire-Enclosure-2-5-inch-Laptop-Bus-powered/dp/B001P1D16I ... hope they report back. Always looking for suitable (inexpensive) enclosures.
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Offline macStuff

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