Mbox2, DAW... seriously.

[FdB]

I’ve got a bit o’ the DAW curiosity bug here and was wondering about the Digidesign MBox 2 Pro (with firewire) and OS 9. Also, considering the “original” Digidesign Mbox, but I have questions about preferable sample rates and whether or not I’ll need some confounded “key”. DAW is completely “uncharted territory” for me… thusly I am seeking the knowledge and guidance of those “wiser (and patient) ones” known to frequent das Forum.

Primarily, interested in connection with a Mac mini but I’ve other suitable G4s that it could be tethered to as well. AND, thinking of the USB 1.0 (G4 norm)… thought maybe that the firewire 400 of the Mbox 2 might be somewhat more beneficial?

[I know. Fury’s considering DAW… “heaven help us all”.]

[Astroman]

best buy imho is currently the Digidesign Digi-03 rack, the first one I found was 150bucks (and I've seen them as low as 80€ here in Germany)
It's 2 classes above any MBox, expandable and overkill for a beginner, but at THAT price ?
(you'll likely appreciate the additional i/o quite soon after starting)

[FdB]

Umm, thanks Astroman. Now that I have a Digi-02 Rack on the way,
I'm reading / finding "no function" with OS 9. Are the Digi-O3 Racks
OS 9 compatible? Also wonder if this early-reported (2003) OS 9
incompatibility has since been worked-around?

I've also got an Mbox 2 (USB variety) standing by
(even if I might actually prefer the Mbox 2 firewire version).

And yes macStuff, I just read your earlier note on the Digi-02 rack.

[Astroman]

oops, stupid me messed the 9 on Avid's compatibility page... it says Pro Tools 9 not OS 9 
release date rules out OS9 compatibility, sorry for confusion

[mrhappy]

While the 002R shuns OS9, the 002 rig with the built in mixer/faders has a version of PT that supports OS9. You might wanna consider a 001 setup to get your feet wet too, although you'd need to use a 'tower' as that uses a PCI card... you can buy these 2 at a time... CHEAP!!! 

PT Free should run on the mini so you could play around with that... it's a bit limited but you could get a pretty good idea how PT runs.

We have the crazy cool 'Instant DAW' if you'd like to give Cubase a whirl. Just marveling at the installation is half the fun... TOTALLY wild... the lads really knocked THAT one out of the park!!!

Of coarse there are the OS9 versions of Logic, DP, Live... so many DAWS... so little time!

[WhiteWarlock]

can he use the mbox2 with cubase or logic on OS9?(ugh no drivers)
otherwise digi001
maudio delta 1010 https://www.macworld.com/article/1019415/delta.html
there's also Emagic PCI
also USB Tascam US series: 122 144 224 428
surely there are other pci/usb/firewire options also that can be suggested for you on OS9
list of compatible interfaces:
http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/index.php?topic=8.0
do some ebay searching from that list
you can grab something inexpensive for getting up and running
Digi001 works with PT5?(have it never use digi001 with protools)

[Astroman]

Slightly on the edge of topic, some general 'DAW' considerations.
The main difference today results from big screens available - or you even can afford two of them. A stellar expense back then...

I often use PT5 as a scratchpad for a bunch of ideas spread all over the timeline in a single project. 20 seconds of Midi tweaking on the piano roll, then rendering it to audio, collected in the region list, leave some visual silence and start working on fx chains with imported audio.
Just moving on to the right with various parts... until some idea pops up, then I pick segments and move/duplicate them to arrange a kind of track.
Leave some visual space and continue with the mess.

Not the proper formal approach to a DAW, but a lot of fun.
The trick that makes this so easy is a USB wheel mouse and the USBOverdrive extension.
(which is amazingly clean and fast to setup)

Adding some PT shortcuts to the mouse action makes the wheel zoom in/out at cursor position with the curser centered on screen (wheel up, zoom out, point at the region of interest, wheel down zooms the area in)
Right button is set to trigger playback. So left clicking selects a region and a right click starts playback/looping, another right click stops it.
Bottomline: (imho) this  is so fast and convenient, that supposedly outdated software becomes very productive again.

PT is certainly a (little) bit steep initially, but the basics are fairly straight. The documentation (well written) covers everything from hardware-io to region management in steps. No need to read it in one go, and even less to use all those features at once
I never planned to use PT as a DAW - the elcheapo TDM rig was intended as a realtime fx rack originally, but I quickly got the hang on it.

[WhiteWarlock]

agree^
always ran multiple monitors with my old Mac systems/PT DAW
only using one flat panel monitor on those machines now
yet they are doing basic tasks with PT DAW anymore then tracks dumper to another DAW
when record drums or synths on that PT machine
multiple monitors are good things for taking into consideration

[FdB]

Re: Mbox2, DAW... seriously. Seeking the knowledge and
guidance of those “wiser (and patient) ones”.
Primarily, interested in connection with a Mac mini...

¡Ay Chihuahua! Hoi polloi!

While all this talk of monitors and multiple displays could be considered quite titillating,
perhaps nothing whatsoever to do with basic introductory forays into DAW exploration…
especially (ex-specially) with the Mac Mini?

Monitors??? See: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/board,124.0.html

Thanks everyone. Basic approach was to just barely place a solitary big toe into the
DAW waters with the primary intention of transferring R2R recordings to digital, with
maybe a few basic enhancement(s) and some filtering. Given the performance of
Firewire (compared to USB 1.0) Reasoned that instead of the Mbox with the Mac
mini, that maybe the Mbox 2 with Firewire might be somehow a more advantageous
POE. Extrapolate that line of reason a little… and a reasonably priced Digi 002R
(FIREWIRE) reared its’ head and I purchased it. Oh… woe is me, indeed.

Now my tiny mind runneth over with PT5LE 7.4 downloads, learning curves and
Mac OS X Tiger system requirements and the 02R has yet to even arrive.
PT disdain? Already?

And all this time, I’ve had a simple little Behringer USB interface - UFO202
here that I’ve never attempted to use (thinking that it was OS X only). Now
I do wonder if ye olde Instant DAW would function well with that… in this
theoretical “big wet toe" basic DAW Mac mini scenario?

In the meantime, anyone need or want a Digi 002R… inexpensive?
Ah hell, it may eventually get tethered to an MDD running 10.4.6.
(And just to be sexy, I’ll run four freakin’ monitors!) Grrrrrr.

[WhiteWarlock]

always used DINR(Digital Intelligent Noise Reduction) plugin on classic OS when transferring Tape
let's see if it is in the archives here
you need comprehending using the "learn" function on leader of your recordings
leave some "silent" input of that Reel machine running tape before music/vox
then it will make more sense when use Noise Reduction plugin
if anyone else can suggest any plugins for him that would be good
you should be able using it in PEAK(2track stereo editor)
used some other plugin for that also yet can't remember of the top of my head for classic OS
forget since new waves plugins use anymore for that task
have fun transferring reels
have boxes full 1/4" master reels with original material that need getting transferred/archived....
you can do it with your other old interface obviously

[FdB]

Thanks muy mucho!

[WhiteWarlock]

let me power up ye olde powermac when have extra time....
for checking what Noise Reduction mastering tools are one there you can possibly use....
yet be forewarned it is TDM system running old ProTools/SDII/Peak
so will need looking for any applicable Mastering VST

[Astroman]

Imho Firewire is more reliable than early USB devices, it's not really the data rate but handling of the protocol. It took ages for USB to evolve into it's current state.

About the R2R thing: are those 2 track masters or multichannel recordings ?
Bias Peak is an outstanding editoror (and really convenient) to deal with 2-tracks.
You can locate/mark export sections, generate playlists from parts and all that stuff - on probably the most precise waveform display around.
All major effect systems are supported, TDM may be bitchy sometimes, but it would be interesting to check the performance on a Mini.

For multitracks you'd rather transfer them in one go - otherwise you'd have to tweak start positions on each take, which is a subtle task.
I never checked the difference between TDM and CPU based versions of the same plugin.
(TDM just fits my taste perfectly, at least on the few I selected for continued use)

But there's no general DAW approach whatsoever - it's about certain tasks and workflow.
Pro Tools is a fairly full-service approach and as such will NOT reveal it's advantages at first glance. I still remember my first sight, which was just an omg ...
Remix an 8-track would be good start, though.

[GaryN]

Hey Fury…

Sorry I didn't catch up to all of this sooner.
As Astroman said, Bias Peak is a good audio editor that will handle tape transfers pretty well. Another one (that has competent dynamic noise reduction built-in) is Amadeus II (It's now Amadeus Pro, but the older II lives in OS9).

I also have a couple of OS9-able M-Box One's with drivers around here someplace. You're welcome to one if you need it. You can PM me.

[FdB]

Thanks Gary. PM you in the morning.

[mrhappy]

I also have a couple of OS9-able M-Box One's with drivers around here someplace.

Hey Gary, whats the deal with those? So the M-box 1 is a OS9 firewire PT interface?? Does it use a special version of PT or anything like that?

[IIO]

no, it is an usb interface & and it will work with any protools "higher" than LE 5.2.

it also supports OMS and sound manager.

(i am not sure about ASIO and EASI...)

[GaryN]

no, it is an usb interface & and it will work with any protools "higher" than LE 5.2.

it also supports OMS and sound manager.

(i am not sure about ASIO and EASI...)

Yeah…what HE said

[mrhappy]

ah, gotcha... thanks for the info!