Author Topic: Mac OS 9 - MIDI driver to behave like "OS X class compilant"  (Read 471 times)

Offline cyberish

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Is there a "MIDI USB OSX class compilant driver" for Mac OS 9? - A workaround ?

Offline GaryN

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Re: Mac OS 9 - MIDI driver to behave like "OS X class compilant"
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2018, 02:00:10 PM »
No.

Offline acelera

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Re: Mac OS 9 - MIDI driver to behave like "OS X class compilant"
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2018, 03:00:13 PM »
Only way to really achieve this in OS9 is to buy the USB Host MIDI interface from Kenton which converts USB class compliant MIDI into regular MIDI IN / OUT 5 pin MIDI and then you are able to integrate your USB MIDI class compliant device into OS9, Atari ST(E) or any other similar environment.

The real question is whether the USB device in question is really that important to you to shell out £60 or so on said device.

Offline GaryN

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Re: Mac OS 9 - MIDI driver to behave like "OS X class compilant"
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2018, 06:57:48 PM »
So now we're at the "workaround".

The real question is whether the USB device in question is really that important to you to shell out £60 or so on said device.
Actually, the current price of the Kenton MHST is £74 (£88.80 incl VAT if you're in England). That's $98 / $117 plus shipping!

Don't forget this is in addition to the MIDI-to-serial interface you also need
OR
The MIDI-to-serial interface AND serial-to USB converter needed with an MDD or other non-serial equipped Mac.

Unless you have OMS 3…oh wait…that doesn't exist.

So, as I said originally… No.

Offline acelera

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Re: Mac OS 9 - MIDI driver to behave like "OS X class compilant"
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2018, 09:43:53 AM »
The OP did ask if there was a workaround so I addressed that. That the interface is even more expensive than I quoted makes it all the less worthwhile but to each their own.

However, neither is OMS3 needed nor a serial to MIDI interface as there are no shortage of documented products in this forum that do pci or Usb to five pin MIDI jolly well.

If the OP wants a solution, it is one. Worthwhile? Highly unlikely but that is a subjective aspect surely.

Offline cyberish

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Re: Mac OS 9 - MIDI driver to behave like "OS X class compilant"
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2018, 01:14:15 PM »
Thx acelera! I did not know about that Kenton device. Nice finding

Offline Metrophage

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Re: Mac OS 9 - MIDI driver to behave like "OS X class compilant"
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2018, 07:06:20 PM »
I am sure that it can be done, but OS9 drivers were even considered black magic back in the day, and now there aren't many people who understand the usage and development end.

To do it on a seamless OS level like on OS X, I think you'd need to make a system extension which included an entire MIDI driver setup, like MIDI Manager, OMS, FreeMIDI, etc have. That's not trivial even for somebody who knows how (and I don't). I suspect that one could work around it more easily by making a sufficiently generic OMS USB MIDI driver tha itself appears more or less class-compliant. But then it would be a challenge to get it to "play nice" with OMS way of doing things, which is basically the opposite approach of custom setups, names, etc.

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Mac OS 9 - MIDI driver to behave like "OS X class compilant"
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2018, 08:12:37 PM »
I guess we have to study  Edirol UM-1 and th eM-Audio Uno and use Resedit...
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline GaryN

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Re: Mac OS 9 - MIDI driver to behave like "OS X class compilant"
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2018, 10:20:27 PM »
To do it on a seamless OS level like on OS X, I think you'd need to make a system extension which included an entire MIDI driver setup, like MIDI Manager, OMS, FreeMIDI, etc have. That's not trivial even for somebody who knows how (and I don't). I suspect that one could work around it more easily by making a sufficiently generic OMS USB MIDI driver tha itself appears more or less class-compliant. But then it would be a challenge to get it to "play nice" with OMS way of doing things, which is basically the opposite approach of custom setups, names, etc.
…which was exactly what I meant when I said "Unless you have OMS 3…oh wait…that doesn't exist."

However, neither is OMS3 needed nor a serial to MIDI interface as there are no shortage of documented products in this forum that do pci or Usb to five pin MIDI jolly well.
????
I know of products that do PCI to serial which then require a serial-to-MIDI converter.
I know of products that do USB to serial which then require a serial-to-MIDI converter.
I even know of a product that does modem slot-to-serial which then requires a serial-to-MIDI converter.

However, I know of NO products that "do pci or Usb to five pin MIDI" … jolly well or otherwise.

Offline Metrophage

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Re: Mac OS 9 - MIDI driver to behave like "OS X class compilant"
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2018, 11:34:54 PM »
…which was exactly what I meant when I said "Unless you have OMS 3…oh wait…that doesn't exist."

That is not at all what I meant. If it was a matter of finding some existing commercial product, the problem would have been solved 15+ years ago. It comes down to what we can actually make. If people always waited for already existing solutions, problems would never get solved.

Because of the ancient toolchain and APIs, some projects are always going to be more work than they are worth to implement on so-called legacy systems. But more modern MIDI functionality doesn't strike me as being on the same level of difficulty as trying to update a core OS feature.

Offline GaryN

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Re: Mac OS 9 - MIDI driver to behave like "OS X class compilant"
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2018, 05:58:53 PM »
Wow…and now I have NO idea what the hell you're talking about.

   The OP asked "Is there a workaround?" The Kenton device was mentioned. I noted that:
   Don't forget this is in addition to the MIDI-to-serial interface you also need
   OR
   The MIDI-to-serial interface AND serial-to USB converter needed with an MDD or other non-serial equipped Mac.

   Unless you have OMS 3…oh wait…that doesn't exist.


The implication being that: had Opcode Systems continued to exist, and OSX NOT happened as soon as it did, there probably would have been, at some point, a version 3 of OMS, and that would probably have been capable of handling class-compliant USB input. But it didn't, so there isn't.

That's all…

But now you're at:

That is not at all what I meant. If it was a matter of finding some existing commercial product, the problem would have been solved 15+ years ago. It comes down to what we can actually make. If people always waited for already existing solutions, problems would never get solved.

Because of the ancient toolchain and APIs, some projects are always going to be more work than they are worth to implement on so-called legacy systems. But more modern MIDI functionality doesn't strike me as being on the same level of difficulty as trying to update a core OS feature.
…apparently musing about turning the lack of the "workaround" into a legacy upgrade project, attempting to answer a question that nobody asked.

My answer to "is there a workaround" was "No" simply because there isn't one.

Offline GaryN

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Re: Mac OS 9 - MIDI driver to behave like "OS X class compilant"
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2018, 06:11:40 PM »
As an afterthought:

… But then it would be a challenge to get it to "play nice" with OMS way of doing things, which is basically the opposite approach of custom setups, names, etc.
This, to me, is the equivalent of a Trumpism, where red is blue, up is down etc.
OMS's "way of doing things" is to make every possible accommodation for custom setups, names etc. Even if the device is totally brand-new and unknown to OMS, it will accept any input from it that is at least within the MIDI spec on a generic level. I have never, ever had a problem with getting a device to "play nice" with OMS even with devices made years after OMS 2.3.8.

So again… Wow… I have NO idea what the hell you're talking about.

Offline Metrophage

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Re: Mac OS 9 - MIDI driver to behave like "OS X class compilant"
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2018, 07:26:01 PM »
…apparently musing about turning the lack of the "workaround" into a legacy upgrade project, attempting to answer a question that nobody asked.

I see it as rather examples of two different approaches to solving a technical problem - 1. we find a way to elicit the desired behaviors from what we already have, or 2. we devise and implement a means to do this. And you acknowledged yourself that the first approach isn't going anywhere, in this case. I don't know what qualifies as a "workaround" to you, or the OP, and I don't intend to entertain any personal challenges on this (or any other) matter. Admittedly, my advice/opinions are going to be of better quality when I am not sleep-deprived and dealing with problems. If you don't find my input helpful, feel free to ignore it.

FWIW I see such communication troubles as arising more from different conceptual or linguistic framings, rather than any essential conflict or contradiction.

Offline GaryN

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Re: Mac OS 9 - MIDI driver to behave like "OS X class compilant"
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2018, 11:03:03 PM »
Workaround
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A workaround is a bypass of a recognized problem or limitation in a system. A workaround is typically a temporary fix that implies that a genuine solution to the problem is needed.

This comports with your definition #1: "we find a way to elicit the desired behaviors from what we already have"

So, you DO know the definition of "workaround" and we don't have "any essential conflict or contradictions" but rather, as you say, some of us have simply been up for too long "sleep-deprived and dealing with problems".

It's all good man, I feel for you. Get some rest.