Author Topic: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?  (Read 5623 times)

Offline Hyram

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Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« on: June 07, 2018, 12:49:11 PM »
What extra tweaks and pieces of codey goodness does one have to add to The 9 so it can send & recieve files with an OS X machine these days? Last time I tried to set something up like this for someone with a couple of 9-boxen and a pair of Mac-tels, AppleShare in the Chooser could be coerced into finding the (Snow) Leopard machines without too many headaches.

These days, silence from both sides. It's like OS9 is waving semaphore flags whilst macOS is with the frik'n lasers.

Seeing FruitCo's mostly about SMB of one flavour or another these days, would Thursby's DAVE be worth a shot, you think?


H
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Offline GaryN

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2018, 03:33:36 PM »
AppleFileShare is long gone. You can move files via your LAN using FTP as long as you have both machines online.
FileTransferProtocol is no longer shown in OSX prefs but till exists in the OS and can be brought to life in Terminal.

Try this (Don't forget the spaces!):

1. On the “new” Mac, enable the FTP server on OSX through Terminal sudo -s launchctl load -w /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/ftp.plist.

2. Share files though Sharing Preferences on OSX.

3. Get Fetch here: http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/fetch-212

4. Fire up Fetch on OS 9 and have it connect using the IP address of the newer Mac.

Offline DieHard

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2018, 10:27:48 AM »
Gary is spot on, this is by FAR the best method :)

Not to open up a can of worms (ewww), but please read our many posts regarding resource forks and OS9 files being stored elsewhere... AFAIR "Dave" preserves forks via a method known as "NTFS" streams and OS X will use Extended Attributes (managed by HFS+) to safely store the OS9 stuff, but if you are going to bounce stuff all over the place (and possibly on a Windows PC or external FAT drive), you may want to archive the files (stuff em up) and encode with Macbinary like we do here :)

Offline FdB

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2018, 11:31:54 AM »
Yup, Gary. Great!

Sticky? Sticky!
But where best to place the actual topic/post for the future?
This Must Be The Place

Offline IIO

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2018, 12:27:04 PM »
using an ftp client to reach (more or less) everything systemwide on an OSX host works good, but it would be even better if you had finder integration on the OS9 client just like OSX has.

or at least a working network client. :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
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Offline Hyram

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2018, 12:39:46 AM »
Oh, I know all about n-fork file-systems and the perils that lay within, I assure you :)

Modern macOS still understands how to handle n-forked data, it doesn't lose resource forks nor Alternate Data Streams ... besides, I'm a long-time ShrinkWrapper, I'm long in the habit of storing things flat, no matter which platform I'm on. Unless its cross-platform generic data, folders and singletons get turned into a disk .img and then Stuffed. Bumpng a .sit from System 7 to Windows 2000 is no different to net-bumping a .gif or .pdf across file-system domains, completely risk-free.

I have a faint memory of something Dana(mania) did in this situation a few years back where she set up an intermediary machine running Tiger (I think) which took shares from more modern Macs and her handful of non-Apple gear and gatewayed them down to ASIP-6 level AFP for her System 7 machines to interact with ...

(I should get around to my introduce-myself posting that's been sitting in half-draft in another tab for the past two days, then my thirty-four years as an ACHT won't get marginalised again ;))

"What's your opinion Brains?" "I'm afraid music in the modern idiom is too repetitive for my taste, al-although the rhythm has a certain hypnotic effect."

Offline macStuff

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2018, 12:49:11 PM »
nothing NOTHING beats the desktop-integration that you can achieve by mounting a network-share over a gigabit ethernet network with a NAS4FREE Fileserver

a nas4free server is a fileserver that runs using modern PC hardware, using an os that is powered by FREEBSD
(similar to how one would repurpose an old pc as a "linux box")
which employs a number of different daemon servers that support basically every known type of transfer (AFP - SMB - FTP)
for me,
my #1 is AFP because it outperforms FTP + SMB
#2 is SMB  because of its prevalence
#3 is FTP because it still works (albeit not that well for transfering large amounts of files)

it blows my mind that many of the self titled 'core members' of this macos9lives.com forum commujnity have chosen to be ignorant of my suggestions for the last 4 years
nothing will perform better than my reccommendation. it is hands down the best solution that truly "bridges all" from any vintage os to any modern os.

https://www.nas4free.org

in the end u end up with a pc thats been repurposed to act entirely as a fileserver and is setup/configured via any web browser on your local network
with a screen that looks like this:


it allows u to intall many different hard drives and RAID Them together to provide one contiguous block of free space for your apps to access over the network
ive gotten file transfer speeds that are much better thant he performance of firewire 400 possibly even firewire800 using a locally shared hard drive via nas4free
i cant reccommend it highy enough.  if you have a gigabit ethernet capable network (cat 5e cable or cat 6, with gigabit ethernet capable nics on both mac + nas4free server) you will be amazed at the performance you can achieve.

that high level of performance coupled with the native integration of macOS (not having to use a 3rd party app at all)
will blow your mind unless u are too lazy to investigate it at all like most of the lazy old people on this site
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 01:27:44 PM by macStuff »
aka chrisNova777 aka superNova777 aka geforceG4 | >>> http://www.oldschooldaw.com

Offline DieHard

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2018, 02:44:55 PM »
Quote
nothing NOTHING beats the desktop-integration that you can achieve by mounting a network-share over a gigabit ethernet network with a NAS4FREE Fileserver

Yes. the NAS solution is an excellent solution and you are 100% correct, I only use the FTP because it is rare I need to bounce things from OS9 to OSX; In fact as I have bored you with this many times, rather than run a server 24/7, I use my RAIDed FW solutions since I do not have many machines on at once anymore.  I agree that if you have a bunch of macs and PCs on all the time than the NAS is obviously the superior (and Free at that) way to go.   

These days the 6 Windows PCs I use for tech support, and 1 point of sale are all virtual PCs in parallels.  I give the VM 2 out of 8 cores and they run way fast.  My file transfers are usually just bouncing things around in the same box.  The NAS4FREE is a better solution than many propriety QNAP, Seagate, & Synology boxes, but I still use the "Know" boxes for client installs since they have other services that clients need like Google cloud integration and backup, remote security, Sdrive phone technology and yada yada yada.... but I am sure the NAS4free probably has more plugins then when I last fired it up in 2015 and tested the balls out of it.  As Chris suggests, it is very fast over gigabit Ethernet, almost too fast, you think the stuff did not copy..lol... it is very robust on an Intel Dual core 3 Ghz (that is what I tested it on); I ran simultaneous writes from a 4 different tech servers and it didn't even phase it.

The NAS solution is still #1 for small business environments and for Media-hungry families that have large music/Video libraries, but may be overkill for the average Joe with 2 or 3 macs.

Quote
it blows my mind that many of the self titled 'core members' of this macos9lives.com forum community have chosen to be ignorant of my suggestions for the last 4 years nothing will perform better than my recommendation.
Please be careful, a mind is a terrible thing to waste, I am sorry if the "core members" are responsible for such violence

Offline GaryN

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2018, 04:56:55 PM »
that high level of performance coupled with the native integration of macOS (not having to use a 3rd party app at all)
will blow your mind unless u are too lazy to investigate it at all like most of the lazy old people on this site
And there you go again! You just can't help yourself, can you?

Offline macStuff

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2018, 09:14:31 PM »
maybe yall should take a hint and try it sometime
its not rocket science its not overkill at all.. its a pc.. running software that is mac os compatible over the network..
simple stuff
all it takes is an old pc with 2-4gb of RAM and a 8gb USB key
i have two machines on my network they make transfers from machine to machne such a breeze
because it "Speaks the language" of whatever os.. the osx machines connect via SMB..
the os9 machines connect via AFP and theres an FTP server aswell.. all accessing the same data
at the same time. its beautiful.
aka chrisNova777 aka superNova777 aka geforceG4 | >>> http://www.oldschooldaw.com

Offline Hyram

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2018, 11:35:13 PM »
Ahh, excellent! Time to put my spare N36L Microserver to work again!
"What's your opinion Brains?" "I'm afraid music in the modern idiom is too repetitive for my taste, al-although the rhythm has a certain hypnotic effect."

Offline macStuff

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2018, 08:11:27 AM »
id be very interested to hear others success stories to find out if they share the same great success that i achieved

i was able to save + open large wave files easily over the network using whatever app as though the drive was mounted locally

faster speeds than firewire 400
aka chrisNova777 aka superNova777 aka geforceG4 | >>> http://www.oldschooldaw.com

Offline MacTron

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2018, 09:22:40 AM »
id be very interested to hear others success stories to find out if they share the same great success that i achieved
I prefer Netatalk. I have used it for years to connect all my Mac Os 9 machines to my main Debian Linux server. Nothing is so transparent. And nothing  fulfills so exactly my needs as Netatalk. I have even used it to connet my (now defuncted) iPad 2 to my Mac Os 9 machines.

Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline refinery

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2018, 05:06:51 PM »
i have a x-serve in my home which i use for filesharing, attached to an external RAID array. very nice, very fast setup.
the server is running 10.9 mavericks.

i run vmware fusion on the machine, with a VM running OSX 10.5, which still has filesharing support for OS9.

i have a folder set up as a share within that VM.

I have a shortcut on my OSX machines to that sharepoint. the OS9 machine has that same share automounted on boot.

its seamless, and, besides the time to install OSX in the VM, took about five minutes to set up. has been working perfectly 2+ years now.

G4/MDD 1.42 (9), G4/GB 500DP (X), Beige G3 400 (9), PBG4Ti 1Ghz (X), PBG3WS 300 (9)

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Offline Astroman

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2018, 02:19:06 AM »
I prefer the Synology boxes for their almost instant and idiot-proof setup.
Never had a problem with OS-9 stuff like forks and icons.
Crucial part of my own use is exchange between Pro Tools and iPads in both directions.
(the Synology personal cloud can replace iCloud in many cases)

In low traffic local use a small setup-change may be worth the effort: formatting disks as non-raid allows any brand/type, while the default raid requires high quality drives and does a lot of extra spinning.

Offline macStuff

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2018, 11:11:19 PM »
netatalk is exactly whats in nas4free though, but running on FREEBSD os + PC hardware -- thats why i use it ;)
so i think we are tlaking about the same thing.? almost??
you prefer netatalk installed on what os?
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Offline Metrophage

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2018, 03:40:22 AM »
I use FTP and Netatalk. Actually, I hadn't reinstalled Netatalk since I wiped and redid my Linux "main driver" earlier in the year.

Any setup tips? I was able to set it up to work with OS 9 - OR - with OS X, but I wasn't able to figure out a Neta setup that worked for both.

Offline DieHard

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2018, 08:13:12 AM »
Maybe Mactron can post a Quickie set of setup Steps...

1) Create Linux PC (or PPC G4 ?) and which version
2) Load and configure Netatalk (which version)
3) etc....

Offline MacTron

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2018, 08:16:57 AM »
Maybe Mactron can post a Quickie set of setup Steps...
OK, here we go  ;D

The first thing to do is to check if your Linux or Unix distribution have the Netatalk package. if it is available install it using the ordinary procedure on your Linux or Unix distro. If  Netatalk it is not available, you should try to compile, but this is far away from a basic intro like this ...

Once Netatalk is installed on your Linux or Unix distro, you can log into it from your Mac knowing your Linux or Unix network IP:



User  and Password :





Then the Home folder will be mounted on your Mac desktop as if really was another Mac!



I have successfully used this system for years. No problem with resource forks.The biggest drawback is that only files smaller than 2 Gb can be used and transferred.
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Offline DieHard

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2018, 08:41:12 AM »
Cool, I have dealer not for resale copies of RedHat that are pretty old, I will look if they have Netatalk

Offline Metrophage

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2018, 10:34:13 PM »
Thanks MacTron, but I meant the many dozens of options in the Linux .cfg files! I know that Netatalk looks and acts just like Appletalk to client Macs, that's the easy part.

Offline Sweep

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2018, 12:07:10 PM »
You guys please excuse me if this has been answered already in this thread but I haven't the knowledge to figure out if this is the case.
I have a Apple mac running 9.2 and want to connect it to my Windows 10 PC so I can move TIFF files from the Mac to the PC.
Both machines are connected to my home router by cat5 cable and both can see the internet if that has anything to do with things.
At the moment i am shifting the files via a USB stick but that is unrelaible, slow, and seems pretty crude.
The reason for the Mac machine is that i am running a 1990's vintage drum scanner that will only work on apple.

For those of you kind enough to reply, please keep your explanations as simple as possible with lots of hand holding and pretty pictures.

Many thanks



Offline devils_advisor

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2018, 12:26:47 PM »
You guys please excuse me if this has been answered already in this thread but I haven't the knowledge to figure out if this is the case.
I have a Apple mac running 9.2 and want to connect it to my Windows 10 PC so I can move TIFF files from the Mac to the PC.
Both machines are connected to my home router by cat5 cable and both can see the internet if that has anything to do with things.
At the moment i am shifting the files via a USB stick but that is unrelaible, slow, and seems pretty crude.
The reason for the Mac machine is that i am running a 1990's vintage drum scanner that will only work on apple.

For those of you kind enough to reply, please keep your explanations as simple as possible with lots of hand holding and pretty pictures.

Many thanks


Give ftp a shot. install the filezilla server on the windows machine and transfer all files to a set directory.

Offline Sweep

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2018, 10:42:40 AM »
Even that sounds like a foreign language Devil but I will search for Filezilla and give it a go

thanks for your reply

Offline devils_advisor

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2018, 11:37:54 AM »
filezilla is probably easier setup than a ftp server on os9 so if you need guidance at some point let me know.


https://filezilla-project.org/download.php?type=server


https://filezilla-project.org/


1st link is the win only server
2nd is the main website


Offline IIO

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2018, 03:23:07 PM »
first thing to do is giving your computers fixed IPs (while otherwise retaining your current dhcp setup), this makes things a bit easier.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Sweep

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2018, 02:22:46 PM »
Thanks again guys. I will give Filezilla a go this weekend and see how far it get

Offline MacTron

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Re: Network file-sharing twixt OS9 and [other-OS] ... how?
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2018, 06:56:17 AM »
No problem with resource forks.The biggest drawback is that only files smaller than 2 Gb can be used and transferred.
I'm tryin netatalk  on Manjaro linux (an Arch linux based distro) and I have found that the 3.x versions destroy resource forks of mac Os 9 files!!
So we have to be aware of this terrible issue!!
I have notice the same issue in some NAS hard disk, and the cause seems to be the same, as most of this stuff are based on netatalk software.
Furthermore the Arch based Linux distro lacks an "automatic" netatalk configuration. Fortunatelly it's easy to configure, but not "automatic"...

The Debian based linux distros as Ubuntu and Mint uses the old 2.x version wich is best to work with Mac Os 9 files... AFAIK
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