Author Topic: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?  (Read 1803 times)

Offline Fury deBongo

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Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« on: June 03, 2018, 09:06:44 AM »
The DOM concept / application in this instance is interesting, especially considering overall cost. A Kingspec PATA IDE DOM 44 PIN 64 GB is eBay-listed today for $55.88. IF a similar 128 GB DOM was available for double the price, the cost per GB might more compete with the mSATA + adapter cost... except for the fact that Protools5LEGuy has ordered a 240 GB mSATA with adapter for 90 Euro / $104.00. I’ve written Delock about a possible U.S. distributor of their mSATA adapter.

And… there are questions about speed, overall performance and the actual reliability of the “lesser expensive” DOMs.

Newegg has the 128 GB Kingspec PATA/IDE SSD listed for $88.75 (less expensive than the OWC 120 GB @ $128.75). Yet, still half the space of the 240 GB mSATA+adapter for just a bit less. Seems we’re paying more for the 44 PIN compatability over the less expensive SATA SSDs?

Then there’s the PATA/IDE SATA adapter route described here: https://luttztfz.wordpress.com/2015/10/05/mac-mini-g4-sata-hddssd-upgrade/ …wherein luttzftz arrives at the conclusion that it all may not really be worth the effort, considering the shortcomings inherent with the G4 Mini’s actual performance in the first place. (This, after he guts an SSD for his particular application.)

With all of the above in mind, possibly an “upgrade” from an original 4200 RPM HD to a 5400 RPM HD might provide more “bang-for-the-buck” in the G4 Mac mini?

Unless of course… the mSATA + adapter mentioned by Protools5LEGuy does prove successful?
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2018, 09:21:07 AM »
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2018, 09:26:00 AM »
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/msata-vs-sata-drive-in-a-g4-powerbook.2027276/#post-24195525
Bobesch have dismanteled one unit and it has the best voltage conversión design of all the adapters
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Offline Fury deBongo

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2018, 09:44:19 AM »
Thanks very much!
Have quickly skimmed both your references and will read more closely, later.
(Too much on plate today.) Does seem a very viable alternative to previous choices.
Great info!
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Offline Fury deBongo

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2018, 10:37:30 AM »
Protools5LEGuy,

As if i could have waited to read more closely…

Nearest Delock dealer to the U.S. is in Iceland (and local airport has just begun direct flights to Iceland).
But… rather than fly to Iceland or try to translate that webpage (or German for that matter) would you
provide specifics and info about the adapter and where you’ve ordered from?

Part numbers, contact info, etcetera.

Given the recent U.S. trade tariffs and the possible cost effect upon future “Euro-goods”
it might be best to order these fairly soon (for U.S. residents).
Open post, or PM me all the info please.

The mSATA shouldn’t be difficult to acquire in the U.S. but that adapter (Delock or “other”)
may become a bit more expensive as time marches on.

Thanks.
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2018, 11:01:41 AM »
Just look on Amazon the cheapest red adapter with frame. Check those post for the one that americans order. I had to make the quest for the product in Europe with the americans descriptions...
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 11:19:38 AM by Protools5LEGuy »
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 11:32:50 AM by Protools5LEGuy »
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2018, 11:41:21 AM »
From weckart
Quote
The DeLock/Lycom/Aleratec/Kouwell/Addonics/Kourotoshikou adapter has the Marvell chipset and that one is the most reliable with Apple hardware. The JMicron 20330 chipset found on cheaper adapters also works with most but not all SSDs but an earlier revision of the chipset was found to be buggy and unstable. 
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Offline Ninester

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2018, 01:42:37 PM »
Another one that I'm looking at: 3.3 volt compatible with Samsung and Toshiba and Intel mSATA.

A "dogfish" 120GB combo $51.48  If you get full return rights, may be worth it?

...the link!  https://www.amazon.com/Aneew-mSATA-SSD-Adapter-Case/dp/B0773NJL3W/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_107_tr_t_2/131-1367848-6892618?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=0DGZDN8YDJSV0AFVP6FP&dpID=41Evler1k9L&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=detail

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2018, 04:26:00 PM »
most ide2sata adapters i have seen would not at all fit into a minis HD slot.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2018, 04:45:00 PM »
From weckart
Quote
The DeLock/Lycom/Aleratec/Kouwell/Addonics/Kourotoshikou adapter has the Marvell chipset and that one is the most reliable with Apple hardware. The JMicron 20330 chipset found on cheaper adapters also works with most but not all SSDs but an earlier revision of the chipset was found to be buggy and unstable. 
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Offline Ninester

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2018, 05:13:52 PM »
Most of the info I find is 4 years old! With all the chipsets out I find it odd that no one has a working solution for the G4 mini.  Has anyone peeked inside the OWC drive?  Yep, we have to stay 2.5" form factor by any means correct?

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2018, 03:33:47 AM »

2,5" - and a reduced height, which is the main problem.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2018, 03:35:34 AM »
in my opinion - because i am not so keen to open mini cases - firewire is the best solution if you want to add flash memory for cheap. boots into OS9 fine, can be used on more than one computer by replugging...
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Fury deBongo

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2018, 08:14:53 AM »
2.5" - and a reduced height, which is the main problem.

Hey 110, ya got a big bucket of ice water there? ;)

2.5" hard drives normally come in one of three thicknesses:
   •   12.5 mm - these are the Super-Phat drives that probably only larger laptops (DTRs and workstations) can fit. They usually have three platters instead of two, enabling higher capacity.
   •   9.5 mm - this is the most common size and should fit most laptops without problems.
   •   7 mm - these slim drives are used in thinner laptops (like ultraportables). Most (enclosed) SSDs are also in this size, and usually include a plastic bumper to increase the thickness to 9.5 mm in case the HDD mounting system requires it.

Here's a pic of the Delock  (Item No. 62495) and its' thickness... and once PT5 gets his Zheino mSATA SSD installed in the converter, maybe he'll let us know if it exceeds the 7mm thickness?


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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2018, 11:57:50 AM »
may had a new record heat in germany.

that drives look good.

all i know about 2,5" is that you can put a "normal" disk into the mini when you swap the optical for it.

since the optical drive sucks balls that is what i will do one day with my G4 minis.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2018, 12:12:53 PM »
may had a new record heat in germany.

that drives look good.

all i know about 2,5" is that you can put a "normal" disk into the mini when you swap the optical for it.

since the optical drive sucks balls that is what i will do one day with my G4 minis.
I can be wrong, but you could swap the optical drive for a drive and the mechanical drive for a SSD, but the optical ATA bus is 33. THere were adaptors for swapping the optical drive for a SSD SATA, also for ATA and SATA powerbooks/Macbooks.
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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2018, 12:22:29 PM »
tjat could be.  then it wont make too much sense. and my intel minis i use something better already (external). :/

no info here:
https://everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_mini/specs/mac_mini_g4_1.42.html

gotto boot... here we go... no we dont, system profiler does not reveal it.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com


Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2018, 09:10:17 PM »
That is for swapping Optical drives WITH TRAY and needs to be exchanged for a 12.7 mm optical. I am not sure if it will work for trayless opticals, but If I were IIO, after all the BlueRay disk safari, I would try.
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2018, 09:16:14 PM »
Anyone know the dimensions of those slimopticaldrives?
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Offline IIO

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2018, 09:23:02 PM »
i wouldnt mind using a short cable and fixing the disk with a piece of styrofoam, no need to speend money.

if it really is ATA33 then flash doesnt make much sense because HDs are more reliable and bigger.

in my case my outboard rack is almost full now (6x optical, 12 HDs, 5x mac mini, 2 routers and a switch, an Xserve and 3 desktops, a nord lead 3 and a sleeping lounge for the cats) so i begin to think about smaller solutions for storage stuff and hosts. :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2018, 09:35:32 PM »
Ok. Browsing in Everymac I have found that the hard disk drives for the mini are 9,5 while on the 17 " powerbooks are 12.5"
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Offline Fury deBongo

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2018, 08:58:47 AM »
Warning: Many words here.

NEW-BIGGER-FASTER- CHEAPER -LESS EXPENSIVE?

EveryMac.com notes the original G4 Mac mini “spinning platter” 2.5 drive @ 9.5 mm high. Standard is the 80GB 4200 RPM Ultra ATA100. Only caveat remaining is whether or not the *Marvell chipset will work in the mini (as opposed to the sometimes questionable JM20330 chipset on the other, similar mSATA adapters). See MacRumors link below and PT5’s previous comments…

*Reportedly the most successful chipset in PowerBooks.

Also, given the “same” 167 MHz System Bus Speed of PT5’s PB and the also standard, original Ultra ATA100 HDs in both… well, if this works in PT5’s PB, then it just might “fly” in the Mini as well? AND with the one fan of the Mac mini in mind and the possibility of any additional heat generated by the mSATA… certain consideration of the “open sled” design of the the Ableconn adapter (opposed to enclosed SSDs) might warrant some examination? Perhaps I only imagine the open “sled” design facilitating better cooling capability / heat dispersion… with the Mini’s solo fan?

And not considering “cheapest” route inasmuch as “inexpensive” (or less expensive) … compared to other more costly alternatives. Ninester’s 120GB “Dogfish” combo ($51.48) is tempting for a trial, but I’d leave that cover off, if possibile. (And note PT5’s comments in post #10 here, concerning the JM20330 chipset?)

The 240GB Legacy Pro IDE/ATA lists @ $198.75 while the 250GB Mercury Electra 3G SSD comes in @ $93.99. Now with the Zheino mSATA 240GB SSD (new, eBay) coming in @ $52.99… add that to the $28.99 (Amazon) for the Ableconn mSATA SSD to 2.5 inch IDE adapter “sled” (with the Marvell chipset) and you’re @ $81.98 for 240 GB. (I dislike math.) And the $93.99 250GB Mercury Electra 3G SSD won’t work without an IDE to SATA bridge adapter of some sort.

Absolutely nothing against OWC whatsoever, but the A1103 Mac mini’s attraction now is primarily low cost, performance, small footprint and the new OS 9.2.2 “bootability”. (Thank you again Ross… and the host of Many Others!)

Of course I’ll seek the lowest price for the Zheino SSD (and maybe even drop down to a 120MB version [*subtract another $24.00 from the $81.98 total noted above for the 240GB] to keep initial “test” costs low) but I will get around to this hopefully very soon. In the meantime, maybe PT5 will be reporting his PowerBook results and I’ll spring for the 240GB anyway?

*$58.00 for a NEW 120 GB external FireWire drive?

[darthnVader’s currently offering up a 1.42 GHz mini / 1GB RAM /  80GB HD / Airport & Bluetooth (including shipping) for $60.00 in the U.S. SOLD

Considering that the once lowly, 13 year-old G4 Mac Minis really haven't been in much use… until the recent OS 9.2.2 boot was realized here, it’s no surprise that they haven't gotten much attention. But now we’re seeing their base prices rise (eBay) from what once was 10-$20... now to 30-$40+… and that’s usually for the basic 1.25 GHz with 512 mb RAM. And often with only a 40 - 80MB 4200 RPM HD… AND sometimes without power supplys AND often, before shipping costs are added.

For more in-depth info on the mSATA and adapters… and temp concerns/causes (in a PB) refer to this link provided by PT5: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/msata-vs-sata-drive-in-a-g4-powerbook.2027276/#post-24195525

And yup… 2.5” form factor. Wait ’til ya get that thing open and apart, Ninester.

Wonder if I can ship dry ice to Germany? ;)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 01:05:39 PM by Fury deBongo »
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Offline Fury deBongo

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2018, 09:03:45 AM »
Yup, the thickness of the optical drive (Combo 8124A) on an A1176 Mac mini is 12.7mm. (Same as the A1103. Trayless.)

Specs on the Ableconn IIDE-MSAT mSATA SSD to 2.5-Inch IDE Adapter note it as 7mm thick and then Amazon goes on to note: “Latch and Retain mSATA SSD as 9.5mm 2.5" IDE SSD Drive”.

Using the Ableconn mSATA SSD “sled” to boot from and park apps on, might eventually consider the ATA serial tray replacement… but for now, probably utilze the LaCie 250GB external FireWire drive that came with my last mini for “storage”… while keeping the whole tabletop physical footprint small. That tray is pretty cool.

And then… again… might just try to read and write the Zheino SSD to death without using the LaCie all that much (for awhile). MTBF?

Seriously considering downsizing the entire collection of G4’s ‘round here before leaving my happy home. Do wonder about transfer rates with that optical replacement tray in a mini and the SSD via ATA33… or even just 110’s styrofoam route.

Ordered the Ableconn and the 120GB Zheino SSD. $64.98 total. If for some reason the mini doesn’t like it… there’s plenty more machines ‘round here that just might. ;)
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Offline IIO

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2018, 09:12:05 AM »
the transfere is not hard to guess :) but you will experience faster load times for things like operating system, gaames, programming languages - even commpared to a disk at an ata 100 bus. diehard tested once this with a DOM drive at an MDDs optical controller. for 1000 small files, search time is the main question.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Fury deBongo

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2018, 12:01:15 PM »
diehard tested once this with a DOM drive at an MDDs optical controller.

Unable to find DH's test/post/etc. Try searching DOM and enjoy yourself with DOMain, wisDOM, etcetera. (10 pages worth anyway.)
I skimmed all twice, to no avail. Would be interesting to check out original post.

Big heart-attack moment came here today when I quickly had to disassemble a mini to check for 40? or 44? pin HD connector.
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Offline Ninester

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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2018, 06:43:18 PM »
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Offline IIO

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2018, 01:19:47 AM »
Try searching DOM and enjoy yourself with DOMain, wisDOM, etcetera.

you actcually found some wisdom here? seems we are getting better and better!
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2018, 09:23:27 AM »
but that was SATA, not ATA-33. sorry i also cant find the other one.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Fury deBongo

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2018, 02:51:24 PM »
No. It were knez knezzen who had a DOM.
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,306.msg1073.html#msg1073

Yes, thank you PT5. That was 5 years ago, wonder if Knez is still using his 32GB 40 PIN DOM (SATA?) in his MDD? Might PM and axe him?

Seems that the DOM costs may have gone up (see 32GB 40 PIN below). While the 44 PIN (mini-friendly? size?) versions are priced a bit differently… still much less space than the comparably priced 120GB Q1 Zheino mSATA SSD MLC + adapter solution.

AND the Zheino MLC mSATA specs report 510MB/S Read & 180MB/S Write… versus the Zheino DOM @ 130MB/S Read & 55MB/S Write. (Kingspec 32GB 40 PIN notes 43MB/S & 21MB/S respectively.)
Actual performance via ATA100 on the mini… remains to be seen.

*Special, “secret agent” decoder message for IIO… in the last image. (Something about Kraftwerk, Dolly Parton and a solid form of carbon dioxide.)  ;)

"Now is zee time on Sprockets vhen vee dance!"

Salutations to HYRAM. TEN BUCKS!
you actually found some wisdom here? seems we are getting better and better!
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Offline Fury deBongo

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Re: Mac mini... Zheino mSATA/Ableconn Upgrade?
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2018, 02:03:32 PM »
Well, the Zheino 120 GB mSATA and Ableconn adapter are installed. Used the v.5 Mac mini CD to format the mSATA after installation and four-partitioned it. Worked out to 3.9GB for OS9.2.2, 48.8 GB for OS 9 work files, 9.76 for OS 10.4.4 and 27.9 for OS X work files.  Boot time for OS 9 is down to 34 seconds but once booted, apps FLASH right open. Have yet to install OS X or Photoshop & Illustrator… but just as soon as time allows. Just updated the mini to OS 9.2.2 / v.7.b

AND while the transfer rates are nowhere near the reported 510/180 MB read / write specs noted for the mSATA… still it’s improved over the 5400 RPM HD. Approximate 88MB / 74MB (Read/ Write) vs. the Kingspec 32GB SSD @ 53/48 (Samsung 5400 here came in @ 53/40.) Maybe Ninester or Hyram will report their findings from their JM20330 chipset enclosures. (Or… maybe someone with an OWC?)

Biggest weirdness was making sure that the mSATA was seated properly in the Ableconn. Didn’t seem right at first and required a little more “push” to seat it properly. Currently running at a stable 80˚ and definitely more quiet. Before the Zheino install, the Samsung ran @ 90˚.

Remains to be seen how the Zheino will “hold up” over time, relying upon it for file writes… or if IIO’s train of thought about using an external FW drive (or ‘other’ HD) for boot and/or write drive makes more financial/performance sense. Also tested my small (old) VST FW400 drive and it tested out as 17/11MB. Haven’t tested the (2) newer FW400 LaCie’s yet. If they test out closer to the Zheino’s speed, then a smaller mSata boot/app base and a fast FW drive might be the combo to go with.

And yes, I reformatted the VST FW using the v.5 Mac mini install CD before I did the install (in case I had problems with the CD… I had the FW drive to install from). So, the LaCie’s might not work unless I reformat with the v.5 (etcetera) drive setup format route?

For now, I like the Zheino/Ableconn combo. Comparison attached (MacBench 3.0.)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 10:18:30 AM by Fury deBongo »
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Offline Ninester

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2018, 07:29:27 PM »
MacBench gave you nearly same mix score between the drives, same on my two drives, non SSD but one faster.

I have seen nothing about trim support on the early OS so possible shorten life for the solid state?  Anything to bench access times?

cheers

Offline Fury deBongo

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2018, 07:55:47 PM »
Yeah, I got nothing on trim, trim support, etc. per OS 9 or X. Seems I remember
reading something about "later" version's abilities/use and then gone again for
more recent OS'es.* This 1.5 mini here will probably stay upstairs and get
a lot of P-shop tasking and file transfers back and forth... so it will be used /
mis-used fairly regular.

*Then  there's Windoze... another story.

And yes, surprised how close the mix score for the 5400 RPM Samsung
and the Zheino were. (Read/write, viva la difference.) Hoping you or Hyram
will come in hotter... or it's just pricing (more or less) against a good 5400 HD?

Ahh, ATA100.
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Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2018, 09:20:03 PM »
FdB,

Thanks for the real world data and 1st confirmed SSD success in a mini, definitely post some comments on youtube for the guy that said it would not boot.  I have not had the time to test it and the last OWC legacy I had was sold with a notebook for a client, so was going to stick an Msata 256GB I have from a dead PC gamer notebook into an adapter.  The mini I am testing has a 250GB or 320GB mechanical in it which seems to run very well so I may just leave the big drive in for now; thanks again for the data

Offline Ninester

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2018, 08:35:57 AM »

Snip

Ahh, ATA100.

DogFish (don't ask) will be here Wednesday. If it works then there will be three (known) with working "sand" drives.  JM20330 chipset enclosures look the same,  but can't see what Rev the chips are.  I'm going to try to find a better shot of HYRAM's board, which does not ship to the US. So we have $50 and up drives going into mini's worth less than shipping? Lol, that's mean, no? I like mine.

Trim and Garbage collection will have to be built in, how well depends on year implemented on your choice of controller. OWC's TRIM statements seem outdated and misleading from the many sites I've visited.  Two more days...

Offline Hyram

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2018, 10:43:11 PM »
I've still got an un-used mSATA-to-44 box, I'll dig that out and see if my shitty PoS-cam can take something decent of the actual innards and post a bit later tonight. I'll also see exactly what mSATA drive I've currently got in my G4 mini (still rocking along nicely, no hiccups or glitches to date).

Anything else you chaps want to know? If so, advice on testing softs I should be adding to the collection?

Oh, re TRIM and GC: One can do without both in the host OS as long as you don't exceed 70% of the physical capacity of the solid-state device, - this applies to SATA SSDs, normal SSDs through adaptors, CF/SD cards in adaptors, etc.)
"What's your opinion Brains?" "I'm afraid music in the modern idiom is too repetitive for my taste, al-although the rhythm has a certain hypnotic effect."

Offline Ninester

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2018, 04:10:44 AM »

 snip

Oh, re TRIM and GC: One can do without both in the host OS as long as you don't exceed 70% of the physical capacity of the solid-state device, - this applies to SATA SSDs, normal SSDs through adaptors, CF/SD cards in adaptors, etc.)

Via utility? Mines all auto through winders 10 unless I fire up samsung magician. I just leave it auto...hate it when the little things scream.

Offline Fury deBongo

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Trim mSATA/SSD?
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2018, 12:03:07 PM »
Skip reading most of all that follows by heeding Hyram’s comments here & above:
TRIM and GC: One can do without both in the host OS as long as you don't exceed 70% of the physical capacity of the solid-state device, - this applies to SATA SSDs, normal SSDs through adaptors, CF/SD cards in adaptors, etc.

The Trim support question and this C/net article: https://www.cnet.com/how-to/installing-ssd-on-mac-trim-mistake/ sent me late-night careening off on a rampage to install OS X on a preset partition on the new Zheino. Many hours and much self-inflicted frustration later… finally the realization that the mini ONLY wanted OS X Tiger, sunk in… but not until after I’d completely wiped and reformatted the drive.

Then this morning, I find this simple statement:
To be able to enable TRIM on non-Apple SSD volumes with the trimforce command, the Mac will need a third party SSD,
and to be running either OS X El Capitan 10.11.x or OS X Yosemite 10.10.4 or later versions, the command does not exist
in prior releases of OS X (though earlier versions of OS X can use the third party TRIM Enabler utility)
.
Which then goes on to explain: TRIM support can be added to all SSD’s running Mac OS X 10.7.2 and 10.6.8 or later.
(Translation: previous OS versions, GO FISH!) G4 Mac mini max MacOS = 10.5.8?

RE: Hyram’s query “Anything else you chaps want to know?”.
Yes, how about running MacBench on that mSATA (if you’ve installed the 9.2.2 hack) that you currently have in your G4 mini?
Not so much for “race results” as it is for comparisons between particular manufacturer’s per-formance (in a leading role).
AND possibly saving others some money and/or headaches with available storage/upgrade choices.

MacBench 3.0 app from: https://www.macintoshrepository.org/2635-macbench-3-0
See Reply #34 (this thread) for MacBench results/comparison.

G’day.

AND, a tip-o-the-hat to IIO’s Tiger “utility”.  ;)
(Mini-hack v.5 still wants to reformat HD set-up by Tiger.) :(

Rowan Atkinson as Brains? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brains_(Thunderbirds)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 12:27:00 PM by Fury deBongo »
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Offline Hyram

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2018, 01:30:29 AM »
Oh, whoopsy! I posted my bench-chart & pics in the wrong sub! It's over here: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2408.msg31763.html#msg31763
"What's your opinion Brains?" "I'm afraid music in the modern idiom is too repetitive for my taste, al-although the rhythm has a certain hypnotic effect."

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2018, 07:43:28 AM »
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4435.0;attach=5328;image

that thing is cute, but do you know the macway minipartner? it is a 3,5" enclosure with firewire (+2) and usb hub (+3) included.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Fury deBongo

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2018, 09:29:11 AM »
Cute, it is. But I could not beat the price. (It came with the 1.52GHz mini.) The minipartner looks interesting and certainly more bells and whistles... but none currently available (at least not on fleaBay currently).
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Offline Fury deBongo

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2018, 03:42:19 PM »
Guess I’ll need to go back and check the Samsung HD benchmark results with QuickBench
(using Drive Setup 2.1 and Drive Setup 1.9.2 for comparison) against the initial Zheino results.
Like that's going to happen any time soon. ;)

But, attached here is DieHard’s 1Ghz PB (with OWC) QuickBench results next to PT5’s
MacBench 3.0’s applicable numbers plugged into the Quick Bench format… next to my
first QuickBench results (using mini-hack v.5 and Disk Setup 1.9.2).
Initializing with 2.1 seems to yield better results. (See link below.)

Don’t know if PT5 used 1.92 or 2.1 to initialize his Zheino.

Using Drive Setup 2.1 on the mini, produces better read/write results but longer
cold-boot times. Yet, awaiting confirmation of all that from someone else…
I could be wrong (again).

See: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2408.msg31783.html#msg31783

AND, thanks for the info and the pics Hyram.
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2018, 07:40:40 PM »
Instead of the CD/DVD you can use this from Ifixit

https://es.ifixit.com/Store/Mac/12-7-mm-PATA-Optical-Bay-PATA-Hard-Drive-Enclosure/IF107-077-1


Quote

You can now have two hard drives in your laptop or Mac Mini! By replacing your optical drive, you can install up to a 320 GB hard drive in this enclosure to increase your available storage space. This drive also is available via Target Disk Mode when connected to another Mac using Firewire.

Optical Bay is 12.7 mm tall. Accepts 2.5 inch PATA hard drives up to 9.5 mm in height.

Note: This enclosure does not work with SATA drives or drives taller than 9.5mm.
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline madalynmcworm

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Re: Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?
« Reply #47 on: June 18, 2018, 06:52:34 AM »
What's the TLDR version of this?

I've been using the fancy red adapter that came from ableconn for a while in both of my powerbook G4s. I swapped out my new 250GB samsung for some used 15GB msatas, they seem slower. I used a cheap $12 adapter in a thinkpad, it also seems slow but it is hard to tell as the machine is 366 MHZ and I'm trying to use 100Mb pcmcia on it.

Offline Fury deBongo

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EZQuest FW400 / Mac mini
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2018, 12:55:45 PM »
Testing an EZQuest FW400 enclosure (via a 1.5GHz Mac mini) with comparisons
between the original 80GB “Cobra+” 7200RPM IDE drive, a 2.5” 250GB 7200RPM
SATA drive and an OWC 60GB SATA SSD. Compared to earlier 17-11MB read/write
results of an old 10GB VST FW400 drive, this “Chunk” of a FW drive enclosure
smokes the VST.

*Kingwin ADP-06 V1.0 SATA bridge used for SATA drive tests.

Mini recognized only half of the 250GB SATA HD. And Drive Setup 1.9.2 on Mini
would only format it that way. Soooo…

Moved the 250GB, 2.5” SATA HD to a 1GHz Quicksilver with the ADP-06 bridge
and had to add a jumper (see red rectangle, photo below) to the SATA drive to
enable it to be recognized as a “slave drive” and then to be reformatted into
(2) 116GB partitions, which are now recognized on the Mini (with jumper
now removed) in the EZQ enclosure. (DS 1.9.2 also on the Quicksilver.)

Nice! A fairly fast 250GB FW400 external drive for $10.00. (Craigslist cost of
the EZQuest.) Already had everything else as a result of “the virus”.

Should also try Disk Utility 10.5.5 (via OS 10.4.6 on the QS)
to see if that format could further improve performance?
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