Mac mini... mSATA, DOM, SSD upgrades?

[Protools5LEGuy]

Anyone know the dimensions of those slimopticaldrives?

[IIO]

i wouldnt mind using a short cable and fixing the disk with a piece of styrofoam, no need to speend money.

if it really is ATA33 then flash doesnt make much sense because HDs are more reliable and bigger.

in my case my outboard rack is almost full now (6x optical, 12 HDs, 5x mac mini, 2 routers and a switch, an Xserve and 3 desktops, a nord lead 3 and a sleeping lounge for the cats) so i begin to think about smaller solutions for storage stuff and hosts.

[Protools5LEGuy]

The MAcBook Pro solution is 9.5 tall.https://www.macfixit.com.au/owc-data-doubler-optical-bay-hard-drive-ssd-mounting-solution-for-macbook-and-macbook-pro-unibody-models/                         https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/internal_storage/Data_Doubler

[Protools5LEGuy]

Ok. Browsing in Everymac I have found that the hard disk drives for the mini are 9,5 while on the 17 " powerbooks are 12.5"

[FdB]

Warning: Many words here.

NEW-BIGGER-FASTER- CHEAPER -LESS EXPENSIVE?

EveryMac.com notes the original G4 Mac mini “spinning platter” 2.5 drive @ 9.5 mm high. Standard is the 80GB 4200 RPM Ultra ATA100. Only caveat remaining is whether or not the *Marvell chipset will work in the mini (as opposed to the sometimes questionable JM20330 chipset on the other, similar mSATA adapters). See MacRumors link below and PT5’s previous comments…

*Reportedly the most successful chipset in PowerBooks.

Also, given the “same” 167 MHz System Bus Speed of PT5’s PB and the also standard, original Ultra ATA100 HDs in both… well, if this works in PT5’s PB, then it just might “fly” in the Mini as well? AND with the one fan of the Mac mini in mind and the possibility of any additional heat generated by the mSATA… certain consideration of the “open sled” design of the the Ableconn adapter (opposed to enclosed SSDs) might warrant some examination? Perhaps I only imagine the open “sled” design facilitating better cooling capability / heat dispersion… with the Mini’s solo fan?

And not considering “cheapest” route inasmuch as “inexpensive” (or less expensive) … compared to other more costly alternatives. Ninester’s 120GB “Dogfish” combo ($51.48) is tempting for a trial, but I’d leave that cover off, if possibile. (And note PT5’s comments in post #10 here, concerning the JM20330 chipset?)

The 240GB Legacy Pro IDE/ATA lists @ $198.75 while the 250GB Mercury Electra 3G SSD comes in @ $93.99. Now with the Zheino mSATA 240GB SSD (new, eBay) coming in @ $52.99… add that to the $28.99 (Amazon) for the Ableconn mSATA SSD to 2.5 inch IDE adapter “sled” (with the Marvell chipset) and you’re @ $81.98 for 240 GB. (I dislike math.) And the $93.99 250GB Mercury Electra 3G SSD won’t work without an IDE to SATA bridge adapter of some sort.

Absolutely nothing against OWC whatsoever, but the A1103 Mac mini’s attraction now is primarily low cost, performance, small footprint and the new OS 9.2.2 “bootability”. (Thank you again Ross… and the host of Many Others!)

Of course I’ll seek the lowest price for the Zheino SSD (and maybe even drop down to a 120MB version [*subtract another $24.00 from the $81.98 total noted above for the 240GB] to keep initial “test” costs low) but I will get around to this hopefully very soon. In the meantime, maybe PT5 will be reporting his PowerBook results and I’ll spring for the 240GB anyway?

*$58.00 for a NEW 120 GB external FireWire drive?

[darthnVader’s currently offering up a 1.42 GHz mini / 1GB RAM /  80GB HD / Airport & Bluetooth (including shipping) for $60.00 in the U.S. SOLD

Considering that the once lowly, 13 year-old G4 Mac Minis really haven't been in much use… until the recent OS 9.2.2 boot was realized here, it’s no surprise that they haven't gotten much attention. But now we’re seeing their base prices rise (eBay) from what once was 10-$20... now to 30-$40+… and that’s usually for the basic 1.25 GHz with 512 mb RAM. And often with only a 40 - 80MB 4200 RPM HD… AND sometimes without power supplys AND often, before shipping costs are added.

For more in-depth info on the mSATA and adapters… and temp concerns/causes (in a PB) refer to this link provided by PT5: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/msata-vs-sata-drive-in-a-g4-powerbook.2027276/#post-24195525

And yup… 2.5” form factor. Wait ’til ya get that thing open and apart, Ninester.

Wonder if I can ship dry ice to Germany?

[FdB]

Yup, the thickness of the optical drive (Combo 8124A) on an A1176 Mac mini is 12.7mm. (Same as the A1103. Trayless.)

Specs on the Ableconn IIDE-MSAT mSATA SSD to 2.5-Inch IDE Adapter note it as 7mm thick and then Amazon goes on to note: “Latch and Retain mSATA SSD as 9.5mm 2.5" IDE SSD Drive”.

Using the Ableconn mSATA SSD “sled” to boot from and park apps on, might eventually consider the ATA serial tray replacement… but for now, probably utilze the LaCie 250GB external FireWire drive that came with my last mini for “storage”… while keeping the whole tabletop physical footprint small. That tray is pretty cool.

And then… again… might just try to read and write the Zheino SSD to death without using the LaCie all that much (for awhile). MTBF?

Seriously considering downsizing the entire collection of G4’s ‘round here before leaving my happy home. Do wonder about transfer rates with that optical replacement tray in a mini and the SSD via ATA33… or even just 110’s styrofoam route.

Ordered the Ableconn and the 120GB Zheino SSD. $64.98 total. If for some reason the mini doesn’t like it… there’s plenty more machines ‘round here that just might.

[IIO]

the transfere is not hard to guess but you will experience faster load times for things like operating system, gaames, programming languages - even commpared to a disk at an ata 100 bus. diehard tested once this with a DOM drive at an MDDs optical controller. for 1000 small files, search time is the main question.

[FdB]

diehard tested once this with a DOM drive at an MDDs optical controller.

Unable to find DH's test/post/etc. Try searching DOM and enjoy yourself with DOMain, wisDOM, etcetera. (10 pages worth anyway.)
I skimmed all twice, to no avail. Would be interesting to check out original post.

Big heart-attack moment came here today when I quickly had to disassemble a mini to check for 40? or 44? pin HD connector.

[Ninester]

This?

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,803.0.html

[Protools5LEGuy]

No. It were knez knezzen who had a DOM.
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,306.msg1073.html#msg1073

[IIO]

Try searching DOM and enjoy yourself with DOMain, wisDOM, etcetera.

you actcually found some wisdom here? seems we are getting better and better!

[Ninester]

No. It were knez knezzen who had a DOM.
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,306.msg1073.html#msg1073

ThX!

[IIO]

but that was SATA, not ATA-33. sorry i also cant find the other one.

[FdB]

No. It were knez knezzen who had a DOM.
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,306.msg1073.html#msg1073

Yes, thank you PT5. That was 5 years ago, wonder if Knez is still using his 32GB 40 PIN DOM (SATA?) in his MDD? Might PM and axe him?

Seems that the DOM costs may have gone up (see 32GB 40 PIN below). While the 44 PIN (mini-friendly? size?) versions are priced a bit differently… still much less space than the comparably priced 120GB Q1 Zheino mSATA SSD MLC + adapter solution.

AND the Zheino MLC mSATA specs report 510MB/S Read & 180MB/S Write… versus the Zheino DOM @ 130MB/S Read & 55MB/S Write. (Kingspec 32GB 40 PIN notes 43MB/S & 21MB/S respectively.)
Actual performance via ATA100 on the mini… remains to be seen.

*Special, “secret agent” decoder message for IIO… in the last image. (Something about Kraftwerk, Dolly Parton and a solid form of carbon dioxide.) 

"Now is zee time on Sprockets vhen vee dance!"

Salutations to HYRAM. TEN BUCKS!

you actually found some wisdom here? seems we are getting better and better!

[FdB]

Well, the Zheino 120 GB mSATA and Ableconn adapter are installed. Used the v.5 Mac mini CD to format the mSATA after installation and four-partitioned it. Worked out to 3.9GB for OS9.2.2, 48.8 GB for OS 9 work files, 9.76 for OS 10.4.4 and 27.9 for OS X work files.  Boot time for OS 9 is down to 34 seconds but once booted, apps FLASH right open. Have yet to install OS X or Photoshop & Illustrator… but just as soon as time allows. Just updated the mini to OS 9.2.2 / v.7.b

AND while the transfer rates are nowhere near the reported 510/180 MB read / write specs noted for the mSATA… still it’s improved over the 5400 RPM HD. Approximate 88MB / 74MB (Read/ Write) vs. the Kingspec 32GB SSD @ 53/48 (Samsung 5400 here came in @ 53/40.) Maybe Ninester or Hyram will report their findings from their JM20330 chipset enclosures. (Or… maybe someone with an OWC?)

Biggest weirdness was making sure that the mSATA was seated properly in the Ableconn. Didn’t seem right at first and required a little more “push” to seat it properly. Currently running at a stable 80˚ and definitely more quiet. Before the Zheino install, the Samsung ran @ 90˚.

Remains to be seen how the Zheino will “hold up” over time, relying upon it for file writes… or if IIO’s train of thought about using an external FW drive (or ‘other’ HD) for boot and/or write drive makes more financial/performance sense. Also tested my small (old) VST FW400 drive and it tested out as 17/11MB. Haven’t tested the (2) newer FW400 LaCie’s yet. If they test out closer to the Zheino’s speed, then a smaller mSata boot/app base and a fast FW drive might be the combo to go with.

And yes, I reformatted the VST FW using the v.5 Mac mini install CD before I did the install (in case I had problems with the CD… I had the FW drive to install from). So, the LaCie’s might not work unless I reformat with the v.5 (etcetera) drive setup format route?

For now, I like the Zheino/Ableconn combo. Comparison attached (MacBench 3.0.)

[Ninester]

MacBench gave you nearly same mix score between the drives, same on my two drives, non SSD but one faster.

I have seen nothing about trim support on the early OS so possible shorten life for the solid state?  Anything to bench access times?

cheers

[FdB]

Yeah, I got nothing on trim, trim support, etc. per OS 9 or X. Seems I remember
reading something about "later" version's abilities/use and then gone again for
more recent OS'es.* This 1.5 mini here will probably stay upstairs and get
a lot of P-shop tasking and file transfers back and forth... so it will be used /
mis-used fairly regular.

*Then  there's Windoze... another story.

And yes, surprised how close the mix score for the 5400 RPM Samsung
and the Zheino were. (Read/write, viva la difference.) Hoping you or Hyram
will come in hotter... or it's just pricing (more or less) against a good 5400 HD?

Ahh, ATA100.

[DieHard]

FdB,

Thanks for the real world data and 1st confirmed SSD success in a mini, definitely post some comments on youtube for the guy that said it would not boot.  I have not had the time to test it and the last OWC legacy I had was sold with a notebook for a client, so was going to stick an Msata 256GB I have from a dead PC gamer notebook into an adapter.  The mini I am testing has a 250GB or 320GB mechanical in it which seems to run very well so I may just leave the big drive in for now; thanks again for the data

[Ninester]

Snip

Ahh, ATA100.

DogFish (don't ask) will be here Wednesday. If it works then there will be three (known) with working "sand" drives.  JM20330 chipset enclosures look the same,  but can't see what Rev the chips are.  I'm going to try to find a better shot of HYRAM's board, which does not ship to the US. So we have $50 and up drives going into mini's worth less than shipping? Lol, that's mean, no? I like mine.

Trim and Garbage collection will have to be built in, how well depends on year implemented on your choice of controller. OWC's TRIM statements seem outdated and misleading from the many sites I've visited.  Two more days...

[Hyram]

I've still got an un-used mSATA-to-44 box, I'll dig that out and see if my shitty PoS-cam can take something decent of the actual innards and post a bit later tonight. I'll also see exactly what mSATA drive I've currently got in my G4 mini (still rocking along nicely, no hiccups or glitches to date).

Anything else you chaps want to know? If so, advice on testing softs I should be adding to the collection?

Oh, re TRIM and GC: One can do without both in the host OS as long as you don't exceed 70% of the physical capacity of the solid-state device, - this applies to SATA SSDs, normal SSDs through adaptors, CF/SD cards in adaptors, etc.)