Oddly Behaving G4

[SuperC]

I have a G4 Digital Audio - which is behaving very oddly.  The specification, for reference and in case this has a bearing on matters, is that it has 1GB RAM, DVD-RW, Zip 250, a Sonnet Duet 1.6GHz accelerator, Sonnet SATA card (with a 500GB SATA drive attached), Maxtor 75GB hard drive, Maxtor 110GB hard drive, ATI Radeon 9000 Pro (the official Apple upgrade), Sonnet USB 2 card, Adaptec SCSI card (originally from my old 9600), and a generic 802.11g Wifi card.
 
By and large my old Mac works perfectly.  It'll boot Leopard 10.5.8 and run stably (although a little noisily) for days on end.  Ditto Tiger 10.4.11 (and the classic environment).  It'll run MorphOS without raising a sweat.  But I'll be damned if I can get it to boot MacOS 9.2.2 - which, of course, I want to run some of my favourite old games (Carmageddon 1 and 2, Star Wars Racer, Deus Ex). 
 
It starts booting OK.  But right at the point when the inits and cdevs stop loading and it hands over to Finder, it hangs.  Mouse pointer stops moving.  It gives up.  Which is frustrating.  And it doesn't matter whether I'm trying to boot from the OS 9 install for Classic on my Tiger disk or a freshly formatted disk (with OS9 drivers and without Journalling) - or even from the original OS 9 install disk.  Whatever I do, the result is the same.
 
I've tried removing all the expansion cards, disconnecting all the USB devices except for the keyboard and mouse, resetting PMU and PRAM.  Nothing makes a damned bit of difference.  I'd reinstall the original processor - except that I don't have it anymore, and I'm sure that I read that the Duet is OS 9 compatible.
 
Am I missing essential drivers?  Does anyone have any suggestions?  What have I missed here!?

[IIO]

the most suspicious hardware part is the USB 2 card. some can cause exactly that.

[FdB]

SuperC,

Simple routines first.

(1). Try “Force Quitting” (command-option-escape) when it hangs.

(2). Try booting OS 9 with all extensions off.

(3). Try cold-boot into OS 9 …holding down the option key at startup.

If none of the above steps further your efforts, then consider removing the SATA card, USB card, Adaptec SCSI card and the Wifi card… then try all of the above again. Or as suggested by IIO, begin by removing the USB card. If that doesn’t work, then I suppose you need to determine if the Sonnet Duet accelerator is completely compatible with only OS 9… installed without any specific Sonnet control panels or drivers.

In fact, you may want to check Sonnet “bare bones OS 9 boot-ability” before the first 3 items noted here… or immediately after the 3 items, before jerking all those cards out. I’ve a similar Sonnet 1.7GHz that I’ve yet to install so I can’t really say. Others here may provide better first-hand experience commentary on that.

Have had similar “hang” problems with a fresh install of OS 9.2.2 that was traced to a bum ATI driver which Step #1 has uncovered for me in the past. I simply turned off the reported driver after the force-quit, the machine goes on to fully boot and then zero problems booting OS 9 thereafter.

Had you recently changed anything with your machine? Or, just started using it again after an extended period of non-use? What’s different? Or, just now trying to boot OS 9 after not having done so for a time?

Best of luck. Do please report back.

[GaryN]

It starts booting OK.  But right at the point when the inits and cdevs stop loading and it hands over to Finder, it hangs.  Mouse pointer stops moving.  It gives up.  Which is frustrating.  And it doesn't matter whether I'm trying to boot from the OS 9 install for Classic on my Tiger disk or a freshly formatted disk (with OS9 drivers and without Journalling) - or even from the original OS 9 install disk.  Whatever I do, the result is the same.

What have I missed here!?

Poor Sonnet! They get blamed for everything. The clue is "Mouse pointer stops moving." I'll just bet you have a 3-button, non-Apple mouse.

If I'm right, go get this:http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/usb-overdrive-14
It's a control panel that will run your mouse and solve the problem

If I'm wrong, go here: https://www.sonnettech.com/support
Look up your proc upgrade and make sure you have everything required. There may be an OS9 extension you don't have.

My money's on the USB mouse problem though…

[SuperC]

It can't be the USB card which is causing the problem (because I yanked it and the problem persisted).  The 3 button mouse theory was interesting (because, yes, I was using a Microsoft Optical Trackball) - but, unfortunately, the problem persists even after replacing it with the original Apple mouse.  And I think that bad drivers can be discounted because the problem occurs even when I use the MacOS 9 install CD.

Sonnet support says that there's no driver required - just the firmware update (which I've installed because, without it, the Mac won't boot at all to anything)

Weird.  I'd naively imagined that OS9 would be the easiest OS for it to boot!

[FdB]

Well, not knowing the specific Sonnet that you may have or the exact Digital Audio model either…
have you checked the Sonnet Upgrade Addendum concerning Rev. 3 Uni-North ASIC? (Encore/ST Duet?)
http://www.sonnettech.com/support/downloads/manuals/sg4d_2g_addendum.pdf

May not pertain to your Sonnet or your DA… but possibly worth a look
if you’ve never had a standalone OS 9.2.2 install resident before.

Also begs the question of should it be working under OS X
and not under OS 9.2.2 ...if you've the Rev. 3 Uni-North?

More info please.

[SuperC]

Excellent point Fury deBongo.  I didn't know that there were multiple revisions of the DA.  Mines the earliest model - it looks exactly like the Gigabit Ethernet G4.  In fact, without looking at the back, I don't know how you'd tell them apart.

[SuperC]

Bolle over at 68kmla nailed it he said "The Mulitprocessor Plugin is the issue. You have to remove that from the system folder and it will boot up fine afterwards."  He was right too!

[IIO]

ah, of course.

[darthnVader]

There was a sonnet patch to the multi processor plugin, not sure it works with your upgrade.

What CPU do you have?

7447, 7448, 7445, 7455, 7457?

[macStuff]

Hi There SuperC

honestly i think what we are seeing here is a compounded issue
the 2nd of which being that the computer has a 3rd party cpu..

can you please share a photo of the back of the G4? or some details so we can see which exact model this computer was BEFORE it had the cpu upgrade?

(i really wish this forum would make this a REQUIREMENT for all peopl who post asking for assistance to figure out strange problems.. first thing u want to do.. tell us which specific mac model you have, as specific as possible -- this is a huge pain in the ass for most people to figure out obviously otherwise they would be readily sharing this info)

sorry, i was thinking of the quicksilver model, i guess there really isnt that much variation if it is a "digital audio" g4 that he has.. as they were all produced in january of 2001
according to everymac - i know mactron laughs at this site - but i still use it purely out of convenience lol

have u tried downloading the original macos9 9.1 restore cd for the "Digital Audio" G4??

$25 PowerMac G4 (Digital Audio - Jan 2001)
original/authentic Apple restore disc set
(grey color) in original white package
("600-8790, G4 Media")

* Mac OS 9.1 Restore CDs (2):
CD version 1.0.1: 691-2943-A, 691-2944-A
(2 cds, one is Install, the other is Restore)

* iMovie 2 CD: version 2.0.1: Z691-2764-A
* iTunes CD: version 1.0: 691-2900-A

* Apple Hardware Test CD: SW version 9.1: 691-2899-A

additional info:
http://www.ubbcentral.com/store/item/Apple-PowerMac-G4-Media-Restore-Discs-OS-91_131752899375.html

http://apple-history.com/g4da

try these:
https://www.macintoshrepository.org/download.php?id=834
https://www.macintoshrepository.org/download.php?id=835
(seems u actually need to register for your own account at macintoshrepository.org to download these, links are from this page: https://www.macintoshrepository.org/490-mac-os-9-1-9-1-update-9-1-for-ibook-imac-early-2001-pm-g4-digital-audio)

ok i have now updated my mediafire account to host these files aswell:
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/73e31bfh3f8f8/digitalAudio
you dont need both files - the restore cd uses ASR to restore the original shipped files and is quicker
wheras the install cd is customizable + requires u to wait through the install procedure etc

[macStuff]

let me just say for the record that the instructions in the firmware of the sata pci cards
usually to me, can be prone to error, based on other environment variables + hardware
ie: certain hardware combinations can lead to the computer not being able to boot

as long as we are brainstorming solutions to your problem, this is just a suggestion,
u may want to experiment with removing that card and using an IDE-SATA adapter
(cheap, from ebay, usually bi-directional)  connecting the drive to the real IDE interface of the G4 Digital audio might eliminate issues booting macos9...
 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IDE-SATA_ADAPTER.jpg

[macStuff]

here we can see the Encore/ST "Duet" 1.6ghz
SG4D-1600   [email protected] GHz   2@512KB   102GB/sec
https://web.archive.org/web/20061230060929/http://www.sonnettech.com:80/product/encore_st_duet.html
http://www.sonnettech.com:80/publicfiles/pdfs/pdf_datasheets/duet_datasheet16.pdf

alot of companies are really bad at obscuring their older information + not dating their products
it appears that sonnet routinely upgraded their "Encore ST" G4 cpu upgrades,
because as time progresses on the web.archive.org backup server, if u check the page for the MDX duet g4 cpu upgrades, the ghz rating of the cpu is changing from month to month, starting at dual 500 and workin its way up to dual 1.8ghz i think?
so our original poster here has the 1.6ghz model, from my quick look it appears this model came out around the end of 2005 or some time during 2006

now dont yall remember the thread just a few weeks or months back where i was linking to the cpu plugin enabler file? and i was telling the guy to try the newer version? i cant find the thread.. so i have to try to dig up the same info again:

ok here is the link where the info is:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070204105354/http://www.sonnettech.com:80/downloads/proc_upgrds_sw.html
and the thread was:
http://www.macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4281.msg29516.html#msg29516

ive attached what i think is the v3.1 sonnet processor cpu plugin
its called ce_install because ce stands for "Crescendo / Encore"
which is the names of both of the biggest/main cpu upgrade products from sonnet
albeit somewhat confusing to even me, to put the word Crescendo in front of Encore..
if u ask me these companies were confusing on purpose.. just to make more money on selling tech support to the world..

anyway
ORIGINAL POSTER:
try this v3.1 of the sonnet cpu plugin file
CLICK HERE: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4374.0;attach=5159
i think it can solve your booting problem

here i will paste the description for the cpus plugin file from the original sonnet page:

Description: This unified installer installs files necessary to support various Sonnet processor upgrades in the listed applicable computers.
This software is not necessary for Encore/ZIF G3 nor Crescendo/7200 upgrades.
Version 2.3.1 adds support for additional Power Mac G4 ROMs, and adds full support for correct processor speed reporting under Mac OS 9 for Encore/ST G4 upgrades.

This installer now also installs (or updates) the Startup Disk X control panel, and moves the original Startup Disk Control Panel to the Control Panels (Disabled) folder. This control panel enables universal switching between Mac OS 9.x and Mac OS X System Folders on systems where Mac OS X has already been installed.

Note: If you have altered the extension name (ie: added spaces to the file name) of a previously installed version of Crescendo, Sonnet Processor Upgrade, or Encore, this installer will not automatically remove the previous version. You must manually remove it from your Extensions Folder.

as you can tell from the description it seems they expected people to be dual booting 9 + X.


ps:
admins might want to think about making this sonnet file more prominent download
as many people who come to this site have sonnet-upgraded macs

[macStuff]

for anyone else reading this thread; the first thing to do when u have a mac with strange issues like this is to:

a) determine exact specific model (and manufacture date)
b) do NOT attempt to use any installer from BEFORE that date because it will NOT work
this is a unversal "MAC-TRUTH!" to be respected by all mac users!!!

(for example, in this thread, the original poster describes his mac as a Digital audio model, lucky for us all the digital audio models are from January of 2001, so we know that any mac os 9 retail cd installer that was produced before January of 2001 will NOT WORK PROPERLY on this machine, and will cause the very symptoms described by the original poster in his first post.

however, using a disc that came AFTWARDS such as the mac os 9.21 retail cd, SHOULD WORK because it comes from a later date and apple had time to "make it work" behind the scenes

[FdB]

 

Bolle over at 68kmla nailed it he said "The Mulitprocessor Plugin is the issue.
You have to remove that from the system folder and it will boot up fine afterwards."
He was right too!

[darthnVader]

Bolle over at 68kmla nailed it he said "The Mulitprocessor Plugin is the issue.
You have to remove that from the system folder and it will boot up fine afterwards."
He was right too!

Without the multiprocessor plugin you're only able to use 1 CPU in apps that can take advantage of both.

The was a patch, changed one "word" in the MP Plugin for some Sonnet CPU's, and that got things working correct.

There is a thread about it here, somewhere.

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3809.msg25450.html#msg25450

[FdB]

Point taken.

Yes, there's that thread noting the "Apple CPU PluginsforMDX.hqx"
or this one, noting "Apple CPU Plugins.sit.hqx" specifically noting Sonnet:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3795.msg25349.html#msg25349

Not certain of any real difference between the two files other than one is just slightly larger.

[MacTron]

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3878.msg29832.html#msg29832

[DieHard]

Without the multiprocessor plugin you're only able to use 1 CPU in apps that can take advantage of both.

You really aren't loosing a thing under OS 9, as explained previously, the list of applications under Mac OS 9 that properly utilize BOTH CPUs is pretty much 0.0 with one or 2 exceptions.  search the forum, this has been addressed.

[IIO]

You really aren't loosing a thing under OS 9, as explained previously, the list of applications under Mac OS 9 that properly utilize BOTH CPUs is pretty much 0.0 with one or 2 exceptions.  search the forum, this has been addressed.

well, these 0.0 - and the other 20 programs which use it.