Author Topic: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".  (Read 3268 times)

Offline MacTron

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This post is to present an easy intro to the topic and to try to summarize the state of the Mac Os 9 booting in to different unsupported Macs.
Please refer to specific sections to ask questions about specific models. Use this thread only to update and report what is working and what is not, and to link to different information and troubleshooting threads.

The unsupported Macs ( Os X only G4s ) are blue highlighted in this picture, most but Mac Mini, have a Mac Os 9 officially supported predecessor. No G5 based Mac boots into Mac Os 9 at this moment ( red highlighted in this picture).



To boot into Mac Os 9, a Mac Os 9 System folder is always needed inside an HD, CD, (or any other storage device) HFS formated and with the Mac Os 9 drivers installed.
In the case of unsupported Macs this folder needs some mods: A special ROM file, some extra drivers ( typically video drivers ), and usually the Multiprocessor folder should also be removed.

There isn't any support -at this moment- for FW800,USB2, airport Extreme and other technologies which the Mac Os 9 don't had support at its time and video cards newer than the Radeon 9200 an the nVidia Ti4600.

We have a Generic Mac Os 9 installation Disk image to easy try to boot all of the unsupported Macs:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2143.0.html
A series of specific installation disk are on the way, with drivers and other stuff unique for each Mac model.


The MDD (FW800) only need a special ROM to boot into Mac Os 9, this is included with the Generic Mac Os 9 installation Disk image for unsupported Macs.
Everything works OK. But as usually no US2 nor FW800 etc...


The eMac (USB2) @ 1.25 besides the special ROM, it needs a modified video drivers, available here:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4322.0;attach=5025
Everything works OK, but Apple DVD player and System deep sleep.
The eMac (USB2) @ 1.42 video Is based on a Radeon 9600 wich haven't Mac Os 9 support at this moment.




The unsupported iMac besides the special ROM, it needs a modified video drivers.
The iMac (USB2) @ 1.25 video Is based on a GeForce fx 5200 wich haven't Mac Os 9 support at this moment.
Extra information is needed ...


The Mac Mini besides the special ROM, it needs a modified video drivers. Available here:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4277.0;attach=4966

Also we have a specific installation disk for this model here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-80X7kS0noCDNiP61uA54uLCAM4d9lRQ/view?usp=sharing

Everything works OK, but Apple DVD player and System deep sleep. This model have some trouble with the included sound chip.


The unsupported PowerBook only need a special ROM to boot into Mac Os 9, this is included with the Generic Mac Os 9 installation Disk image for unsupported Macs.
As usually no US2 nor FW800 etc...
Most of the unsupported models have video chips which haven't Mac Os 9 support at this moment. But  maybe Al 867Mhz 12" and Al 1.0Ghz 17" based on the GF4 4200go
Extra information is needed ...



The unsupported iBook besides the special ROM, it needs a modified video drivers. Available here:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4319.0;attach=5020
The iBook G4 @ 1.33Ghz 12" and the 1.42Ghz 12" video Is based on a Mobility Radeon 5200 wich haven't Mac Os 9 support at this moment.
Extra information is needed ...


The G4 xServe only need a special ROM to boot into Mac Os 9, this is included with the Generic Mac Os 9 installation Disk image for unsupported Macs.
This computer have a very special hardware, extra info here:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1964.0.html

A lot of info is still missing... Please if you have one of this Macs working, post info about what's working and what's not.
Take special care about system specifications. Apple use to change the hardware components along the time, especially video hardware.

I wish to thanks to everybody directly or indirectly involved into this great community achievement.
And once again: sorry for my bad English.  :)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 01:02:22 PM by MacTron »
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2018, 10:42:44 AM »
Thanks for the summary! The Facebook group "Mac OS 9 - it's still alive!"  https://www.facebook.com/groups/25587413614/
Has been crying out loud for this!
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2018, 12:30:32 PM »
Mactron, Thanks for all the effort for the summary; ELN,Nanopico,iMic, DarthnVader and others have put so much time and effort into getting unsupported G4s usable and booting to Mac OS 9... I cannot believe that they have expanded the range of machines that can now natively boot to OS 9 to so many !  I doubt, even the original programmers at Apple would have believed that almost 20 years later, in 2018, the machines, the OS, and the legacy would live on...

MAC OS 9 Lives !

Online darthnVader

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2018, 06:27:56 AM »
For the iMac G4 OS 9 video drivers should be able to be made to work with the models with GeForce 4 graphics, however later models with go5200 graphics would be limited to an 'NDRV' driver that only supports  changing the screen resolution and bit depth.

I'm still trying to get my hands on an iMac G4 to create modified video drivers for it.

For the Powerbook G4's, models with GeForce 4 graphics work out of the box, the 12" has go5200( see above ), and later 15" and 17" use the 9700 mobility chip, so they would also be limited to custom 'NDRV' support only.

Offline torvan

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2018, 06:24:16 PM »
I have an eMac G4 1.42 Ghz and I would love to have OS9 on that baby. Mentioned above needing the drivers--which is obvious as the G4 MDD modded disk will not even let the machine boot. Just stops at the grey screen.

So how do you mod the G4 MDD CD with the drivers for the eMac? I downloaded them but no idea how to merge the drivers into the mod to burn the eMac CD.

Offline GaryN

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2018, 07:24:33 PM »
This post is to present an easy intro to the topic and to try to summarize the state of the Mac Os 9 booting in to different unsupported Macs.

The unsupported Macs ( Os X only G4s ) are blue highlighted in this picture, most but Mac Mini, have a Mac Os 9 officially supported predecessor. No G5 based Mac boots into Mac Os 9 at this moment ( red highlighted in this picture).
That chart is confusing the issue. We're trying to keep track of which Macs have been "cracked" and it doesn't help.
No, I'm NOT volunteering to make and maintain a new one, but can anyone else (who's more on top of the subject and has the time) make one…or a spreadsheet…or anything that actually shows the state of the art?

Offline MacTron

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2018, 07:21:59 AM »
That chart is confusing the issue.
This chart clearly shows what's the models we can expect to work with the unsupported ROMs. And to avoid confusion about supported and unsupported machines with similar specs ... And the use of unsupported System folder into supported Macs... which have happened yet.
We're trying to keep track of which Macs have been "cracked" and it doesn't help.
No, I'm NOT volunteering to make and maintain a new one, but can anyone else (who's more on top of the subject and has the time) make one…or a spreadsheet…or anything that actually shows the state of the art?
I'm Agree, but one of the main problems we have here is the lack of info and the extremely spread around of what we have. The purpose of this post is to be a detailed report about what's working and don't in all "unsupported" Mac, bu we only have info about 5 or 6 models by now ...
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Offline MacTron

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2018, 07:34:52 AM »
I have an eMac G4 1.42 Ghz and I would love to have OS9 on that baby. Mentioned above needing the drivers--which is obvious as the G4 MDD modded disk will not even let the machine boot. Just stops at the grey screen.

To boot an unsupported G4 you only need Mac Os 9 System folder (with the custom ROM) inside an HD, CD, (or any other storage device) HFS formatted and with the Mac Os 9 drivers installed.

So how do you mod the G4 MDD CD with the drivers for the eMac? I downloaded them but no idea how to merge the drivers into the mod to burn the eMac CD.

I have linked the eMac in FW target disk mode to my main Mac Os 9 machine, format its HD, copy the System Folder, change the ROM file and restart.

You should open a new thread to expose the issues you're having, This thread is not for this.
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Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2018, 08:39:07 AM »
Hey Mactron, would it be possible to make a sublist/chart from the main chart and include ONLY units that we have successfully booted to OS 9.  with a column of Video (Acceleration/no acceleration) Audio, Ethernet, USB, Firewire... LOL... I know that would be way too much work, but I think that's what we really need or a thread per unit to stop the masses from asking the same questions

Offline MacTron

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2018, 09:57:53 AM »
Hey Mactron, would it be possible to make a sublist/chart from the main chart and include ONLY units that we have successfully booted to OS 9.  with a column of Video (Acceleration/no acceleration) Audio, Ethernet, USB, Firewire... LOL... I know that would be way too much work, but I think that's what we really need or a thread per unit to stop the masses from asking the same questions
Yes, it will be great, but that info is scarce and spreaded all over the forum, I have to read 439 Replies on the Mac Mini thread only to know how this machine goes, without having one.
So please every one that have a unsupported G4 working with Mac Os 9 please write a brief about whats working and don't.
I only can detailed write about the eMac 1,25:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4361.msg30447.html#msg30447
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Offline GaryN

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2018, 04:17:45 PM »
Absolutely NOT trying to be snarky in the slightest here guys, but the last six posts illustrate exactly what I'm talking about.
It seems our efforts at peeling back the the barriers to boot unsupporteds are being seen and heard all over and as DH says, everybody is asking about it all over and over again.
The longer this goes on without some kind of compilation of the data, the harder it will be to ever straighten it all out.
This needs somebody who is active "in the middle" of it and has a grip on all of the pieces to do this.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2018, 06:39:59 PM »
but you did notice that this IS the post where all the important data is beeing collected, do you.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline macStuff

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2018, 07:26:48 PM »
lol  ;D u guys are clowns
isnt it amazing how easily peoples interpretation/perception differr frm person to person

anyway great job with the template
it looks easy to read quickly + understand

im curious if you guys will also summarize the events that transpired
to make this happen,
ie: who is the person who achieved the ability to edit the rom file?
what technologies were involved? programming languages etc?
what editing programs?

not everyone reads all the threads so intently
we all have slightly different area of interest/focus

its easy for those closest to the info
to forget that everyone hasnt been following the events

one last point that i would like to make that i think it would be more "clear" to
people, the language/terminology being used here.. to say "unsupported hardware" is very confusing to read because.. logically.. the meaning of the words mean exactly the opposite of what you are trying to detail.. i suggested to diehard that you transition to using the words "previously unsupported" to indicate that this is referencing hardware, that was previously osx only.. its confusing for those people who dont know all the facts.. of what was originally supported and what was not..

Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware
to:
Mac Os9 on previously unsupported hardware

can you see how the latter is more easily understood?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 07:40:26 PM by macStuff »
aka chrisNova777 aka superNova777 aka geforceG4 | >>> http://www.oldschooldaw.com

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2018, 07:55:59 PM »
Quote
Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware
to:
Mac Os9 on previously unsupported hardware

can you see how the latter is more easily understood?

That is actually a really good point, I am thinking we should definitely make that distinction clear to all those new to this topic, also maybe we shpuld separate the topics... 1 sticky post per model (like Mactron did with eMac) that has the synopsis, and then a longer post per model describing the journey

Offline GaryN

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2018, 08:19:11 PM »
but you did notice that this IS the post where all the important data is beeing collected, do you.
Is there a point to this comment or is it just as pointless and unnecessary as it seems?

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2018, 06:18:52 AM »
The Mac mini is also required to have a custom System Suitcase. It has ID 3 taken from the boot resource from an older version of ELN's roms copied into the boot resource of the suitcase. I don't know if it is still required (it definitely did originally) but it's still what the latest CD image uses.

Ah, right, somehow I completely missed that. Thanks for pointing that out! I appended your post to my message to keep it all in one place.

but you did notice that this IS the post where all the important data is beeing collected, do you.
Is there a point to this comment or is it just as pointless and unnecessary as it seems?

I think it was a fair and well-intended comment: you correctly stated that information could be better-presented and compiled together, and that too by people who are sufficiently involved with the processes, but the way your post was worded ("[...] but the last six posts illustrate exactly what I'm talking about"), it sounded like you weren't noticing we already started doing what you were saying we should, and that is all which IIO tried to point out, calmly and neutrally. Right?

Quote
Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware
to:
Mac Os9 on previously unsupported hardware

can you see how the latter is more easily understood?

That is actually a really good point, I am thinking we should definitely make that distinction clear to all those new to this topic, also maybe we shpuld separate the topics... 1 sticky post per model (like Mactron did with eMac) that has the synopsis, and then a longer post per model describing the journey

Mm, yes, that is a good point. I do also agree it becomes clearer.

About "1 sticky post per model", though, I feel unless all the summaries are compiled in one single thread, it may end up kind of all over the place, considering the amount of different unsupported and previously-unsupported Mac models, no?

Offline GaryN

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2018, 01:32:12 PM »
but you did notice that this IS the post where all the important data is beeing collected, do you.
Is there a point to this comment or is it just as pointless and unnecessary as it seems?
I think it was a fair and well-intended comment: you correctly stated that information could be better-presented and compiled together, and that too by people who are sufficiently involved with the processes, but the way your post was worded ("[...] but the last six posts illustrate exactly what I'm talking about"), it sounded like you weren't noticing we already started doing what you were saying we should, and that is all which IIO tried to point out, calmly and neutrally. Right?
That's all nice and true. Meanwhile, I was referring only to llO's single-line remark that I quoted.

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2018, 01:49:58 PM »
I know, just thought I'd help. :-X

Offline MacNewbie

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2018, 06:08:21 PM »
I picked up an iBook G4, one of these:

https://everymac.com/systems/apple/ibook/specs/ibook_g4_1.0_14.html

What is the prognosis for getting it working?  Has Airport card, not sure if Extreme or not.  640MB RAM, plenty of RAM and CPU for MacOS 9 to be quite snappy!  but not enough for 10.4 Tiger IMHO.

Online darthnVader

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Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2018, 05:34:19 AM »
I picked up an iBook G4, one of these:

https://everymac.com/systems/apple/ibook/specs/ibook_g4_1.0_14.html

What is the prognosis for getting it working?  Has Airport card, not sure if Extreme or not.  640MB RAM, plenty of RAM and CPU for MacOS 9 to be quite snappy!  but not enough for 10.4 Tiger IMHO.

Shouldn't be too hard to get working, tho I don't think anyone has done the 7457 yet.

The Generic ROM the iMic made along with an Open Firmware patch to the CPU's PVR, should get you running. I have a 14" 1.33Ghz and a 12" 1.2Ghz that run well, just not sleep. Both have sound, but the internal Mic on the 14" will lock the system up if you try and use it.

Graphics acceleration  works with the 9200 Mobility, but your system may, of may not need patched drivers, depends on if they changed the " compatible" property of the display node of the card.

When you get OS 9 running on it, let me know if it needs patched, and I'll whip up some GFX drivers.