Sound on unsupported systems

[darthnVader]

I thought I'd start a thread to see what we could figure out about getting sound to function properly on unsupported systems.

What I have found is sound devices with the sound-objects in the device tree seem to work, however the Mini doesn't have the sound-objects, and at least the line-out works.

On the Powerbook6,8 and the 12" iBook( powerbook6,7 ) they have external codecs on the i2c bus, and sound doesn't work on these systems at all.

[MacTron]

eMac sound properties:
(from the unsupported [email protected])

[MacTron]

Somewhere in the forum there is a list of G4 machines and it's audio chips ...
But Can't find it. May be I have a local copy of this data ...

[nanopico]

I posted this elsewhere.  Not sure where.  I believe MacTron made it easier to view here. I had initially attached an excel file.
This is not complete and not very detailed ( a few things may be wrong at the moment).  It is all I have at this time.  (One of the files that survived one of my stupid purges).
There are details in the Apple doc's that outline some of the actual chips (not just the apple name for them).

Model Family	Id	Model	Architecture Release Date	Architecture	North Bridge (Bus and Memory Controller)	IO Controller	PMU	Audio	Firewire Controller	USB Controller	CPU Version
iMac G3 (Original)	"iMac,1"	M4984	May-98		Grackle	Paddington	CUDA	Burgundy	None	External	750
PowerBook G3 (Lombard)	"PowerBook3,1"	M5343	May-99		Grackle	Paddington	CUDA	Screamer	None	USB0763	750
"PowerMac G3 (Beige Desktops, Minitower and All-in-one)"	NA	"M3979, M4405, M4787"	Aug-98		Grackle	Heathrow	CUDA	"Screamer, Burgundy"	None	None	750
PowerMac G3 Blue and White	"PowerMac1,1"	M5183	Jun-99		Grackle (MPC 106)	Paddington	CUDA	Burgundy	External	External	750
eMac (2005)	"PowerMac6,4"	A1002	May-05	q86j	Intrepid	Intrepid	PMU99		Intrepid	PCI USB Controller	7447a
eMac(USB 2.0)	"PowerMac6,4"	A1002	Apr-04	q86	Intrepid	Intrepid	PMU99		Intrepid	PCI USB Controller	7447a
iBook G4 Early 2004 OP	"PowerBook6,5"	A1054	Apr-04	Q72 73	Intrepid	Intrepid	PMU99		Intrepid	Intrepid	7447a
iBook G4 Late 2004 OP	"PowerBook6,5"	A1054	Oct-04	Q72 73A	Intrepid	Intrepid	PMU99		Intrepid	Intrepid	7447a
iBook G4 Original OP	"PowerBook6,3"	A1054	Oct-03	P72D	Intrepid	Intrepid	PMU99		Intrepid	Intrepid	7457
iBookG4 Mid 2005 OP	"PowerBook6,7"	A1133	Jul-05	Q72 73B	Intrepid	Intrepid	PMU99		Intrepid	Intrepid	7447a
iMac G4	"PowerMac4,5"	M6498	May-03	kum	Intrepid	Intrepid	PMU99		Intrepid	Intrepid	7445
iMac G4	"PowerMac6,1"	N/A	Sep-03	q26bc	Intrepid	Intrepid	PMU99		Intrepid	Intrepid	7445
iMac G4	"PowerMac6,3"	N/A	Nov-03	q59	Intrepid	Intrepid	PMU99		Intrepid	Intrepid	7445
MacMini	"PowerMac10,1"	A1103	Jan-05	q88	Intrepid	Intrepid	uPMU		Intrepid	PCI USB Controller	7447a
"PowerBook G4 12"" AI"	"PowerBook6,4"	A1010	Apr-04	q54A	Intrepid	Intrepid	PMU99		Intrepid	Intrepid	7447a
"PowerBook G4 12"" AI"	"Powerbook6,8"	A1104	Jan-05	q54B	Intrepid	Intrepid	PMU99		Intrepid	Intrepid	7447a
"PowerBook G4 12"" DVI-AI"	"PowerBook6,2"	A1010	Sep-03	q54	Intrepid	Intrepid	PMU99		Intrepid	Intrepid	7447a
"PowerBook G4 15"" AI"	"PoewrBook5,4"	A1095	Apr-04	Q16a	Intrepid	Intrepid	PMU99		Intrepid	Intrepid	7447a
"PowerBook G4 15"" AI, SMS/BT2 - AI"	"PowerBook5,6"	A1106	Feb-05	Q16b	Intrepid	Intrepid	PMU99		Intrepid	Intrepid	7447a
"PowerBook G4 15"" FW800 AI"	"PowerBook5,2"	A1046	Sep-03	Q16	Intrepid	Intrepid	PMU99		Intrepid	Intrepid	7447
"PowerBook G4 17"" AI"	"PowerBook5,3"	A1052	Sep-03	Q41	Intrepid	Intrepid	PMU99		Intrepid	Intrepid	7447
"PowerBook G4 17"" AI"	"PowerBook5,5"	A1085	Apr-04	Q41a	Intrepid	Intrepid	PMU99		Intrepid	Intrepid	7447a
"PowerBook G4 17"" AI"	"PowerBook5,7"	A1107	Feb-05	Q41b	Intrepid	Intrepid	PMU99		Intrepid	Intrepid	7447a
"PowerBook G4 15"" DLSD/HR - AI"	"PowerBook5,8"	A1138	Oct-05	Q16c	Intrepid 2	Intrepid 2	PMU05		Intrepid 2	Intrepid 2	7447a
"PowerBook G4 17"" DLSD/HR - AI"	"PowerBook5,9"	A1139	Oct-05	Q41c	Intrepid 2	Intrepid 2	PMU05		Intrepid 2	Intrepid 2	7447a
iBook G3 (32 VRAM)	"PowerBook4,3"	A1007	Nov-02	Bub	Pangea	Pangea	PMU99	Tumbler	Pangea	Pangea	750fx
iBook G3 (Dual USB)	"PowerBook4,1"	M6497	May-01		Pangea	Pangea	PMU99	Tumbler	Pangea	Pangea	750fx
iBook G3 (Early 2003)	"PowerBook4,3"	"A1005, A1007"	Apr-03	P72C	Pangea	Pangea	PMU99	Tumbler	Pangea	Pangea	750fx
iBook G3 (Late 2001)	"PowerBook4,1"	M6497	Oct-01		Pangea	Pangea	PMU99	Tumbler	Pangea	Pangea	750fx
iBookG3  (16 VRAM)	"PowerBook4,3"	A1005	May-02		Pangea	Pangea	PMU99	Tumbler	Pangea	Pangea	750fx
iMac G3			Oct-01		Pangea	Pangea	PMU99	Screamer	Pangea	Pangea	750cx
iMac G3 (Early 2001)	"PowerMac4,1"	M5521	May-01		Pangea	Pangea	PMU99	Screamer	Pangea	Pangea	750cx
iMac G3 (Summer 2001)	"PowerMac4,1"	M5521	Jul-01		Pangea	Pangea	PMU99	Screamer	Pangea	Pangea	750cx
iMac G4	"PowerMac4,2"	M6498	Jan-02		Pangea	Pangea	PMU99	Tumbler	Pangea	Pangea	7441
iMac G4	"PowerMac4,2"	M6498	May-03	kum	Pangea	Pangea	PMU99		Pangea	Pangea	7445
PoewrMac G4 DP (MDD)	"PowerMac3,6"	M8570	Sep-02	Mojave	U2	KeyLargo	PMU99	Snapper	U2	Keylargo	7455
PowerMac G4 (FW800)	"PowerMac3,6"	M8570	Jan-03	Jos	U2	KeyLargo	PMU99	Snapper	U2	Keylargo	7455
eMac	"PoewrMac4,4"	A1002	Jun-02		UniNorth	KeyLargo	PMU99	Screamer	UniNorth	Keylargo	7441
eMac	"PoewrMac4,4"	A1002	Oct-02	North	UniNorth	KeyLargo	PMU99	Screamer	UniNorth	Keylargo	7441
eMac (ATI)	"PowerMac4,4"	A1002	Oct-03	p86b	UniNorth	KeyLargo	PMU99		UniNorth	Keylargo	7445
eMac (ATI)	"PowerMac4,4"	A1002	Jun-03	p86	UniNorth	KeyLargo	PMU99		UniNorth	Keylargo	7445
iBook G3 (Firewire Clamshell)	"PowerBook2,2"	M6411	Sep-00		UniNorth	Keylargo	PMU99	Micronas Codec	UniNorth	Keylargo	750cx
iBook G3 (Original)	"PowerBook2,1"	M2453	Jul-99		UniNorth	KeyLargo	PMU99	Micronas Codec	None	Keylargo	750
iBook G3 SE (Original/Clamshell)	"PowerBook2,1"	M2453	Feb-00		UniNorth	KeyLargo	PMU99	Micronas Codec	None	Keylargo	750
iMac G3 (Slot Loading)	"PowerMac2,1"	M5521	Oct-99		UniNorth	KeyLargo	PMU99	Screamer	UniNorth	Keylargo	750
iMac G3 (Summer 2000)	"PowerMac2,2"	M5521	Aug-00		UniNorth	KeyLargo	PMU99	Screamer	UniNorth	Keylargo	750
PowerBook G3 (Pismo)	"PowerBook3,1"	M7572	Feb-00		UniNorth	KeyLargo	PMU99	Screamer	UniNorth	Keylargo	750
PowerMac Cube	"PowerMac5,1"	M7886	Jul-00		UniNorth	KeyLargo	PMU99		External	Keylargo	7400
PowerMac G4 (AGP)	"PowerMac1,2"	M5183	Aug-99		UniNorth	KeyLargo	PMU99	Screamer	External	Keylargo	7400
PowerMac G4 (Digital Audio)	"PoewrMac3,4"	M5183	Jan-01		UniNorth	KeyLargo	PMU99	Tumbler	UniNorth	Keylargo	"7410, 7450"
PowerMac G4 (Gigabit)	"PowerMac3,3"	M5183	Aug-00		UniNorth	KeyLargo	PMU99	Screamer	External	Keylargo	7400
PowerMac G4 (Quicksilver)	"PowerMac3,5"	M8493	Jul-01		UniNorth	KeyLargo	PMU99	Tumbler	UniNorth	Keylargo	7450
PowerMac G4			Feb-00		UniNorth	KeyLargo	PMU99	Screamer	External	Keylargo	7400

[macStuff]

teamwork! makes the dream work!
 

[darthnVader]

If we can decode the "sound-objects" and add them for the Mini, we can likely get sound working correct on the internal speaker with volume control.

I don't think we'll be able to do any such for the PowerBooks/iBooks that have the audio codec on the i2c bus. That would likely require an entire new sound driver.

I wasn't able to enable sound under Linux with these models with the i2c audio codec, people were not really running Linux on these Mac's and they have quit even making any distribution for lack of testers.

 

[Jubadub]

I wasn't able to enable sound under Linux with these models with the i2c audio codec, people were not really running Linux on these Mac's and they have quit even making any distribution for lack of testers.

Hmm, what about MorphOS? Not sure if they eventually got the sound to work properly with their most current release, but:
http://www.morphos.de
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MorphOS

The OS works on the Mini, and although paid and proprietary, it's free to try out, at least.

Some components are said to be open-source. Not sure if audio is among them, but even if it isn't, maybe their team could be contacted, and see if they'd be willing to lend a hand to the cause? Not that I expect them to help, but I guess it couldn't hurt to try...

[Jubadub]

Just a little update, I checked and saw MorphOS did get audio to work on the Mac mini G4 (On-board audio on Mac mini (Apple I2S)) as seen here: http://www.morphos.de/hardware

The main download page contains the parts of the source code that are open, further below: http://www.morphos.de/downloads

But I still haven't searched it all to see if the audio portion of the mini is within those. I intend to find that out soon, but for now, if anyone was curious, one can look ahead.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention, they also got things to work on a few more hardware (i.e.: early G5s), so perhaps it might not be that bad an idea to peek at things...

[IIO]

good point. maybe a place to ask?

[MacTron]

Yellow dog Linux 6.2 and probably Debian PPC 6.0 have Mac Mini support, and probably audio works well.

[Jubadub]

Yeah, as usual, Linux would be the first place to look. I'm trying to at least get some of these alternate OSes (BSD too) installed on separate partitions to confirm built-in sound does work with the mini with those. Whenever I get some time off work...

[IIO]

linux might be able to use the audio device because it knows it from x86...

[ssp3]

Question to Open Firmware gurus.

Where these lines of code originate from and how could I change the "default-monitor" and generally poke around there?

Code: [Select]

name                    sound
device_type             soundchip
compatible              snapper
vendor-id               0000106b
#-detects               00000003
#-inputs                00000002
#-features              00000003
#-outputs               00000004
default-monitor         6e6f6e65 00
device-id               00000016

Excerpt taken from this MacOS Plus Telnet session. (Where are you, mate?)
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2408.msg29722.html#msg29722

On my PB G4 the so called "Snapper" sound chip sits on a separate PCB, and, in case you didn't know it, is a standart Texas Instruments TAS 3004 codec. Datasheet attached. Also there are these snapper.c and tas3004.c that I found somewhere on the net.
I'd like to see whether I can do something about the missing sound issue. In sound control panel it always defaults to headphone output.

[ssp3]

The logic behind the idea I have right now is as follows.
There is a mechanical switch inside the headphone socket that is either open or closed depending on whether the headphones are plugged in or not. This switch does not switch the two "analog" lines (L+R) to either phones or speakers otherwise the machine(s) would behave identically in OS9 and OSX.
It is, most probably, sensed by TAS3004 or some glue logic and, depending on the initial state, simply switches to the "other" state when phones are plugged in. I suspect, if one manages to change the initial state of TAS3004 to the "other state" when it is initialized upon startup, it will behave as expected. It might be as simple as a matter of "0" or "1" somewhere. One byte.

[robespierre]

Those are properties of the "sound" device.
From the OF> prompt you could type

Code: [Select]

dev /pci@f2000000/mac-io/i2s/i2s-a/sound
.properties
and that is what it would print.
If you wanted to change the first four bytes of the "default-monitor" property to 0xfeedface, you could then type

Code: [Select]

" "(fe ed fa ce)" " default-monitor" get-active-property 2drop swap move
and check .properties if it changed as intended.

P.S. the wires that detect whether there is anything plugged into the audio ports are typically wired as GPIOs to the mac-io chip, not the codec. Maybe the polarity of the GPIOs can be set somehow from OF.

[ssp3]

Thanks! Just tried it. Seems that nothing has changed when it comes to PB A1013 behaviour with that feedface thingy.
(Isn't that a magic string often seen in Mach-O files?)
And, btw, when there's something plugged into headphone socket, there is no startup chime, so this audio switching happens pretty early on.
What I've also missed in the first place is that hex string in 'default-monitor' - 6e6f6e65 , when pasted into hex editor, gives 'none' is ASCII.

[robespierre]

feedface is just an example to show the syntax, I don't think it is the correct value for this parameter

What I've also missed in the first place is that hex string in 'default-monitor' - 6e6f6e65 , when pasted into hex editor, gives 'none' is ASCII.

oooh I missed that, too. Is default-monitor related to which output is in use? I know "monitoring" means echoing the input through to the output, but there is no documentation for what these properties are for.

What about the "sound-objects" property? If the wire that detects the headphone plug is "extint-gpio15", then that line seems to be saying, that bit-mask is the bit to use, and bit-match is the bit value when active. What if bit-match was 0 instead?

[ssp3]

Ha ha ha.. Good joke! I have no idea what the correct value should be..

[ssp3]

Ok, I'm on to something.. Apple Audio Extension. Word "snapper" appears in data fork and in two resources - cfrg and INIT. cfrg points to offset in data fork where, as it looks to me, the pef segment is located (Joy!peff...)

If you disable this extension, volume controls either in Sound CP or on keyboard doesn't work anymore, Systems sounds and alerts are gone and tab where you select speakers or phones is greyed out. In input tab there's alert that "..the device is in use by another application".

This must be it. What do you think? I'll try to break something and see what happens. 

[ssp3]

Continuing digging...

I've found AudioDeviceTreeUpdater.kext in 10.2.x - 10.3.x OSX installers. Most interesting is the .plist from it. Apparently the kext patches device tree in Open Firmware and changes some values from default ones for some Mac models. The names from it look very familiar.

Code: [Select]

#-detects               0000000x
#-inputs                0000000x
#-features              0000000x
#-outputs               0000000x
.....

Maybe this is the way to go to get sound working (correctly) on unsupported G4s? Maybe this is what modified Apple Audio Extension could do?

This stuff can be found in Apple Audio Extension's nift resources too. I've extracted nift-20493, converted it to data and loaded it in disassembler. What I see there doesn't really make sense to me. I was expecting the strings to have x-references to some code, but they have none. Or at least this is how disassembler interprets it. (PPC stuff is not my cup of tea at all..)

.plist file and text file with strings attached fyi.
nift is from Apple Audio Extension version 2.4