OS 9 Install w/Sonnet Upgrade

[GaryN]

Well, it was worth a try. It may be time to "start over".

I am unable to install OS 9.2.2 on my Power Mac G4 (Quicksilver 2002).  The CPU was originally rated at 800Mhz but years ago I installed a Sonnet Encore/ST G4 1.7, with the firmware change, etc.  Everything worked fine but I eventually moved on to the latest and greatest and now wish to revisit OS 9, but I can't.  I have OS X 10.4.11 on one of my two hard drive partitions, OS 9.1 on another to run Classic and, until recently I had the 2013 version of the universal installer for OS 9.2.2 ("The Well Tempered Mac OS") on a separate hard drive.  But that OS would not sleep, telling me there were system parts I had not installed, and the Appearance control panel would not work.  So, I resolved to finally sort it out but, notwithstanding closely following the instructions here, every version of OS 9.2.2 I install locks up late in the boot process, even with extensions disabled (and yes I always select the box to install OS 9 hard disk drivers).  I don't think it is an issue with the Sonnet upgrade as I can see 1.67 GHZ in the Apple System Profiler on the Classic side and in OS 10.4.11. I have the original install disks and get the same unsatisfactory results.  What am I missing?  Thank you very much in advance.

Points
Everything worked fine …This is important
every version of OS 9.2.2 I install locks up late in the boot process, even with extensions disabled …So where is the original OS that DID work? Can you put it back? Does it no longer work?
I don't think it is an issue with the Sonnet upgrade …Know what? I don't think it is either.

So why are we all convinced it's a Sonnet issue and we're all trying to cure it based on that?
• The computer runs fine in OSX.
• The Sonnet patch shows as installed in OS9 - must be or OSX wouldn't work.

Maybe you ought to try this:
1) in OSX, clear your 9.1 "Classic" partition. You don't need OS9 on a separate partition to run Classic anyway.
2) In OSX, grab a copy of 9.2.2 from here as an image or from a CD but not an uninstalled one. I mean a "finished" OS9 install with the System Folder and such the way it looks after installation.
3) Drag copy all of that to the empty partition.
4) "Bless" the System by dragging the System file and the Finder out of the System folder onto the desktop, then returning them to the System folder.
5) Option-restart and see if it shows up as a boot-able system.

****Very Important! It occurs to me: You probably shouldn't have more than one OS9 System and Finder on the computer  (yes I know that's not absolutely true under normal circumstances, but something's not right here and all possible potential problem stuff should be eliminated if possible)

And yes, this is guesswork, but it's a mysterious problem and all you can get over the internet are educated guesses from people who aren't there and can't see everything involved. I really think the Sonnet is NOT the problem.

[macStuff]

Computer froze up on Software Restore 1 of 5 CD but will try again tonight.  Am hoping to avoid having to locate another genuine CPU for this model as I lost the original in an office move years ago.

breaking this down logically, the system freezing could be related to:
RAM, HD, OPTICAL DRIVE or CPU
OPTICAL DRIVE:
which type of CD-R/DVD-R media are u using to burn the restore cds?
are u using DVD+R? or DVD-R? it makes a difference
if u have original disks they should read fine in the optical drive..
unless the optical drive is not functioning properly
have u tried replacing the optical drive?
MEMORY:
have u tried pulling all ram sticks except one?
HARD DISK:
have u tried with different hard disk?
CPU:
we know u cant replace the original cpu..
that would be my first suggestion but because u cant do that the only other action i can suggest would be to try these different versions of cpu support extensions
its important to note that theres two versions of it on the page; heres the link again:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070204105354/http://www.sonnettech.com:80/downloads/proc_upgrds_sw.html

its a system extension
which means u have to drag it to your "system folder"/extensions folder
if you are doing this in macos9 dragging to system folder is enough as it intelligently will place it in the extensions folder for you but if u are doing it from osx then u have to place it in the correct spot on your own

two different versions to try

v3.0 (from 2007)
+ v2.3.1 (from 2005)

try using these extensions to boot into a fresh 9 partition
the extension makes your system see the cpu as operating properly "within spec"
as far as i understand should stop it from freezing
but like i said before; u have to make sure that this specific extension
(either v3.0 or v2.3.1) is placed in the correct extensions folder; and is enabled; and LOADS BEFORE OTHER EXTENSIONS by renaming it something that comes early in the alphabet

[Tugboat]

Thank you Gary and macStuff.  Another frustrating day that makes me think it is the Sonnet processor.  I installed one of the disk images from here, "The Well Tempered Mac OS (2013)" on an external firewire disk.  The system was missing applications and a lot of control panels and extensions, which I added (in OS 9) from one of the previous installs and then cleaned out all of the other OS 9 installs as Gary suggested.  That worked for a bit (once) but then, before I could use it to install Mac OS 9 on the hard drive, it began to lock up (desktop would show but mouse would be frozen).  Even before that I would get the message, when I tried to put it to sleep, that I needed to install another system.  Also, for what it is worth, I could see that the system was "blessed" during all of this. Before giving up for the night I tried to start up from Software Restore CD 1 of 5 of the CDs that came when I bought the computer new in 2002 thinking it would bypass any of the mischief from subsequent OS installs but ended up at the same place - system locking up before the boot sequence concluded.

Tomorrow I will work through macStuff's list.  On that note, the optical drive is the original Apple drive that came with the computer.  I will check the memory and try with a different hard disk.  Lastly, I have been using version 2.3.1 of the Sonnet software but will try 3.0 tomorrow.

Thank you very much for your help.

[FdB]

En route mañana. (Unless waved-off.)

[macStuff]

i noticed the download link is dead on webarchive so i found this:

https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/25135/sonnet-processor#

i think this is a newer version?
v3.1?

file is dated may 2007

[Tugboat]

Thank you.   And Fury, please send when convenient.  Much appreciated.

[GaryN]

Yo Tugboat!
So I was just thinking (dangerous, I know). You say you "installed the Sonnet software" more than once.
But each time you try to start OS9 it freezes right at startup.
There is a common cause for this.

Are you certain that:
A: The Sonnet OS9 Upgrade Extension actually installed in the Extensions folder, and
B: It has a space as the leading character in the name so that it loads first?

There are not many reasons for it to work perfectly in OSX and not OS9, but this is probably the most likely one.
I'm attaching a copy of mine just in case. Mine is from the MDX Duet but I have a hunch there's only one for all the Sonnets.

[Tugboat]

Thank you Gary.  Will try out tonight.

[Tugboat]

Well, phooey.  More attempts but still no success.  Using first the updated Sonnet extension Gary provided (version 3.1) and then the version I received with the Sonnet originally (version 2.3.1) (and even both at the same time once by accident) I added a space to the file name to get it to load first.  Oddly enough, the Open Transport extension was loading first so I moved that into the disabled extensions folder and restarted again.  Each time the little Sonnet icon loaded first and then, as always happens, the machine froze right after the File Exchange control panel loaded.  In frustration, I disabled the Sonnet extension to see what would happen.  Same result, a freeze up right after the File Exchange control panel loaded.  Lastly, I disabled the File Exchange control panel but the machine still froze around the same time, apparently on whatever extension or control panel comes next.   

More to follow I am sure.  Your support is greatly appreciated.

[GaryN]

  Lastly, I disabled the File Exchange control panel but the machine still froze around the same time, apparently on whatever extension or control panel comes next.   

Ok. Although it may not seem so, this is progress. Every time you report back about the goings-on, another little bit of information comes through. I now suspect you're in the middle of a classic extension conflict - OR a defective extension.
 Some observations: On Mar 2, you referred to using extensions Manager to try different startup combinations. So, I take it you were invoking Ext Mgr at startup by holding the spacebar. Extensions Manager is an app and the fact that it works says your problem is probably NOT the Sonnet.
You need to find out "whatever control panel or extension comes next".

I suggest your next step might be to download "Conflict Catcher" from Mac Garden. All signs are pointing to either a defective extension or a serious conflict and that's the old long-time standard for finding that shit before you lose your mind. That's what I'd do and that's the best advice I have.

[Tugboat]

Ha! Thank you Gary.  Your logic confirms my suspicions and I remember the old days of using Conflict Catcher  to sort these sorts of things out.  Forward into the breach tomorrow night.  I will report back.

[Tugboat]

Progress at last!  Gary you were right about it being a defective extension or extension conflict.  This evening when I returned from work I removed all of the control panels and extensions (save for the Sonnet extension) and booted it up with just the system folder, finder and ROM, and it booted right up!  I have since added the necessary extensions and control panels back in and now have a working OS 9.2.2.  The only niggling detail is the fact that still when I try to put it to sleep I get that annoying message that I have not installed the necessary system files.  But I will worry about that over the weekend.  For now I am happy.  Thank you all.

[GaryN]

This is what happens with the passage of time. Back in the day this would have been the first suspect and you would have hit it immediately.
Well thank the spirit of Jobs it's working now. I hope you didn't lose track of exactly what WAS in there vs. what IS in there now. If there's no obvious culprit, there may be a defective one - but at least it will probably be easier to find if shit happens again.

Meanwhile, not to be too depressing, but for the record, my MDD currently won't sleep in OS9 either. It used to, then got flakey, then stopped, started and stopped again. They say almost anything can cause it - USB accessories, GPU cards, anything. I think it's just 9.2.2, but who knows?
I know of no Macintosh error message that says "won't sleep because you have not installed the necessary system files". But hey, what else were you going to do this weekend?

Glad it's finally working!

[Franz de Silentio]

I have an idea. Humor me here, it won't take long and it just might fix your problem.
I too, have a Sonnet - different model, different unit (MDD) BUT
There seems to be a common issue that often causes trouble with these in OS9

My MDD refused to boot in OS9 until i was given this file to replace the one that was native to OS 9.2.2
It appears - on the surface at least - to be nothing more than a standard "Apple CPU Plugins" file although an earlier version than the one I had.
All I know is that when installed in place of the other one, suddenly my computer started booting OS9 with no trouble.
I suspect that the CPUP resource has been altered to include code or CPU model #s not in the original.

Give it a shot. It can't hurt anything and you can always put the original back.
The only issue is: To send it intact, I've Stuffed it.
Since you can't boot OS9, you'll have to unstuff it in OSX and then drag it into your OS9 System.
This will require you to have a UnStuffit-capable app in OSX - Mac Archive Utility will NOT work, so…
I'm including a copy of "The Unarchiver" which will work in OSX.
I had to use the built-in Mac Archiver to make it small enough to attach here.
You can also download it at: https://the-unarchiver.en.softonic.com/mac

Unzip the app, use it to Unstuff the file then replace the one that's in OS9 System Folder/Extensions.
If the System has a Multiprocessing Folder with another "CPU Plugins" file in it, remove that too.
Put the original(s) anywhere outside of the System folder temporarily.
Then…
Cross your fingers and toes and give it a shot.

Thank you so much! IT WORKS! Best wishes!

[macStuff]

people helpin people - its a beautiful thing