Hard Drives Setup

[Smack2k]

After some helpful folks around here got me in the right direction to get OS 9 running and my Tiger DVD arrived in the mail, I want to do the following on my G4:

Dual-Boot it to OS 9.22 or Tiger 10.4 via on 16 or 32GB CF Card in an IDE Adapter (thanks to macStuff for that idea) - This part I think I can start to do by booting off the Tiger disk and use Disk Utility from the installer to initialize the CF HDD and set it as APM and install the OS 9 drivers.  Do I need seperate partitions here?  Then, boot off the OS 9 disk, and run the OS 9 installer.   Once that is done, when I go to install Tiger next, do I point it to the second partition if there is one or if one partition, does it overwrite OS 9 or install along with it?

Once this is done, I want to add a couple larger drives for storage that both OS's can see...what is the best way to accomplish this?

Thanks ahead of time for the assistance to a newbie to dual booting Mac's with an old OS.

[reader50]

With such small cards, you might want to install both on the same partition. But you can do it as two partitions - there just won't be a lot of space for extras.

If you go 2 partitions, give a bit more space to Tiger.

If you do both in one partition - I don't remember if Tiger can install OS9 as a custom option. If so, that would be simplest. If not, install OS9 first. Then Tiger on top, using the "upgrade install" option. You'll end up with OS9 in a root folder called "Mac OS 9" which will work for Classic. And will be bootable directly.

[Smack2k]

The extras and other stuff will be on seperate drives installed in the system.  Was going to do one for OS X and one for OS 9.

If I do seperate partitions, would I install each OS directly onto that partition?  No upgrade install for Tiger I'd assume.

[reader50]

If you do separate partitions, or separate CF cards, you can install both directly. I prefer to give Tiger it's own OS 9 folder for Classic, but that's just a personal preference.

[Smack2k]

last question....

If I have OS 9 installed, can I install Tiger to the other partition or hard drive from OS 9 (loading the Tiger disc in the drive and running the install) or do i still need to boot off the Tiger Disc? 

[reader50]

Boot from the Tiger disc to install Tiger. You can format the drive or partition from within OS 9 if you like. But nothing more.

[Smack2k]

My attempts to Install Tiger from CD Set keep erroring out during disc 2 Install

Have a 16GB CF Card Installed via IDE Adapter.  Drive is seen by installer, erases and formats fine, and the install process kicks off but keeps failing on disc 2.  Wondering if my Tiger CD is bad?  It's an original disc set I acquired when I got the G4.

If I were to go buy a Tiger DVD which version should I look to buy?  I see various ones on eBay and want to make sure I get the right one (retail / oem / etc)

Not sure of any other reason its failing.  Tried 3 different CF cards and they all fail at same point of install.

Haven't tried the OS 9 Install on the CF Cards yet...

[reader50]

Retail will install on any compatible Mac released up to that point. An OEM disc is reinstall media provided with a particular Mac. In the OS9 days, an OEM disk often included only files needed by the Mac it came with, so it was risky to use on another Mac.

With the transition to X, and Tiger's move to DVD media, the space reasons to supply limited OEM copies went away. But I don't recall today if Apple caught on right away, and made the OEM discs the same as retail. They eventually did, and the Intel Tiger OEM discs worked on any first-generation Intel Mac. But those discs came out later, well after the original Tiger DVD release.

From your description though, you've got damage on disc 2. Or your optical drive is having trouble transitioning to the 2nd layer perhaps. All my original DVD drives from the time eventually weakened in this fashion. The first sign was in movies, where they couldn't transition to the 2nd layer.

If you have another machine with optical drive handy, you could try burning a copy of disc 2 on new media. Start by ripping the disc to an image file. If it doesn't throw any errors, burn it to fresh media. Also, if there were no read errors, you could clone the image to a USB flash drive. Which you would then name the same as the disc, and plug in when the system asks for disc 2.

[Astroman]

I have used fast CF cards with an USB adapter to boot a Powerbook G4 into OS-9 (which is slow for 'USB 1 only'), but those cards didn't work in a G3 B/W with the type of adaptor you mention.
CF cards have their own ATA controller onboard, which in my case obviously didn't comply with the G3's internal controller.
While I also second the idea of a bad disk, there also might be a card controller incompatibility.
Imh experience those cards weren't great performers anyway, so you may consider a SSD instead. Most are SATA today, but PATA versions are still available.
Using SATA with a cheap converter works but caused significantly extended boot periods.
(looks like the Mac doesn't find a disk, shows the folder/questionmark icon and after a few blinks it finally boots)

[Smack2k]

Made a copy of Disc 2 from a new CD and the same issues occur....

If its the DVD Drive, can I replace it with any DVD drive or does it have to be a certain one?  I have a bunch of drives, but not sure if I need a particular one?

[Smack2k]

Installed OS 9 to a CF Card with no Issues, the only issues seems to be coming from OS X 10.4 installs......

Gotta find another CD Set I guess

[macStuff]

Installed OS 9 to a CF Card with no Issues, the only issues seems to be coming from OS X 10.4 installs......

Gotta find another CD Set I guess

https://www.macintoshrepository.org/12343-mac-os-x-10-4-tiger-for-ppc

this will work if u have a DVD drive installed and burn it with a DVD-R
if not u are gonna have to find it on CD format

[FdB]

OR, you could "sneak up on it" using either Panther 10.3 from http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/mac-osx-mac-os-10-ppc
...or try the non-DVD 10.4 download, also from Macintosh Garden. (see link)

[Smack2k]

I will try the Macintosh Garden links and see if they work...

Another issue I am having, most likely due to my not fully understanding the Macs like I do PCs, is what is the proper way to setup the Hard Drives in the system so that both drives are seen?  Right now I have two CF Cards / ISA Adapters installed as Master / Slave.  Mac OS 9 installed fine on the master and is working great.  When I boot up the Mac OS X Tiger Disc and go to Disk Utility, it only sees the Mac OS 9 Drive and does not see the other CF Card that would be slave.  Am I connecting them wrong or do I maybe just have a bad cable plugged in?

[FdB]

Trust that you had “happy hunting” from all the Macintosh Garden choices.
Really have to read the individual file descriptions closely,
to pick and choose exactly what to download.

First:

Uncertain about “bad cable” scenario but, you have formatted “slave” CF
with booted OS 9 disk utility? (Does slave CF appear on desktop,
when running OS 9?) If not, open disk utility in running OS 9
and initialize/format the “slave” drive from there, if possible.

Walking back, here:

From your 1st post this thread, you wanted to install Tiger on the second partition
(after installing OS 9 on the first partition)… on your master CF “drive”?
(See reader50’s response, 2nd post this thread)

In essence, you simply want to use the CF drive(s) as primarily “boot only”
for faster boots, etc. and install more “conventional”, larger drives later?

IF you can get Tiger (or Panther OS 10.3), to install successfully on your second
partition of the “master” CF… then you might investigate your 2nd (slave) CF
for Tiger or Panther installs afterwards… Then, if that slave drive can be formatted
and mounted via OS 9… AND THEN capable of Tiger/Panther install and boot…
you can then wipe the 2nd partition of Tiger/Panther from your master CF drive.

Question arises as to “order” of slave/master postions of your two CF “drives”
on the cable. (Might try swapping them around…)


*Reading back through all of your posts, I wonder if you have disconnected / removed
all “other than basic performance” cards, devices, etcetera from the Sawtooth?
You did change out that video card?

Hope it’s warm there in the garage.

[Smack2k]

It's cold in the winter in there but not too cold thanks to insulated garage door and being in the back of the garage attached to the house

For the booting, I decided I was going to use one CF card for OS9 and one for OSX and boot to whichever one I wanted to use.   But I can see now that appears to not want to work with the G4 in the same manner I can have multiple drives in my Mac Pro with SATA and install different OSX Versions on them, then decide on boot if I want to use a different one than what is set as primary

With the G4 doesn't look like I can do that with IDE and CF cards due to the master / slave relationship IDE uses.

The installing the OSs on two partitions was the other option but since I couldn't get Tiger installed I ended up putting OS9 on the whole first CF card.   If I get Tiger working I could go back and redo it.

So I guess the best course of action is to install both on individual CF cards and swap them in and out when I want to use OS9 or OSX.   

For any additional drives I want to put into the system, if I want both OS, depending on which is running, to be able to access the additional space, would I use the OS9 utility to erase and format it with Mac OS Extended and the OS9 Drivers?

Thanks for all the help and sorry for confusion.   I should have mentioned that I went to the multiple CF option earlier.

[reader50]

A possible cause of the problem: the Sawtooth G4's built-in ATA controller does not support Cable Select. If you put everything on CS, then it won't work as expected. You need to use actual Master and Slave settings on your devices. The master device goes on the far connector, with slave on the mid-connector.

[macStuff]

So I guess the best course of action is to install both on individual CF cards and swap them in and out when I want to use OS9 or OSX.   

thats actually brilliant for alot of reasons 

[macStuff]

A possible cause of the problem: the Sawtooth G4's built-in ATA controller does not support Cable Select. If you put everything on CS, then it won't work as expected. You need to use actual Master and Slave settings on your devices. The master device goes on the far connector, with slave on the mid-connector.

wow i think that one cost me alot of knicks + bleeding fingers back in the day!!!

[FdB]

So I guess the best course of action is to install both on individual CF cards
and swap them in and out when I want to use OS9 or OSX.   

For any additional drives would I use the OS9 utility to erase and format it
with Mac OS Extended and the OS9 Drivers?

No confusion, just a lot of variables to be considered via the “ether”.

And yes, format additional drives with OS 9 as they are added.

Two partitions on your biggest CF card (with OS 9 on one and OS X on the other),
should facilitate the optional OS boot choice… to avoid swapping different CF cards.
Opening that door to swap cards back and forth might be a pain and not good for the
PSU and other connectors at the hinge point... in the long run. Especially if you're able
to get 9 and 10 both installed on one CF (two-partitioned), drive.

All of this of course, IF you can get OS X Tiger or Panther to install at all.