Author Topic: Drum matrix weirdness  (Read 10404 times)

Offline GaryN

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Re: Drum matrix weirdness
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2018, 02:23:35 PM »
I haven't given up on this. The fact that a name entry is indicated in the pop-up menu by the ellipsis has me suspecting it just might be a font problem. SVP "knows" there's an entry there but can't display it for some reason.
This is a medium-long shot guess but considering the timing of the SVP 4 releases against the Mac OS evolution into 7,8 and 9, I'm suspicious (hopeful).
There was a changeover in Type 1 fonts from all of the individual sizes to TruType in that time period.
SVP just might be looking for / calling for a font that was in say, OS6 and 7 but was gone by OS9.2.
It would probably be a 9-point or smaller.

This is exactly the kind of stuff that updates normally take care of. When the company closes and they suddenly stop…

As I said, it's a guess but it's a decent guess worth investigating. I haven't had enough time lately to dig up old font suitcases and trial and error load them into the computer, cross fingers, launch app etc.
Evidently you do though, AND you have multiple computers and the OS's and such around, so…

Have your tests on System 7 been with the original System 7 fonts installed only? You will also have to try with and without ATM (if installed) and without the Apple type I scaler extension on. If this theory is valid, SVP is looking for a specific font and size by number and if not present, the system may substitute a different font from a substitution table, because all kinds of weird shit like that went on then so SVP might not recognize it and not display it.

Like I said, this is just a long shot and there's always the chance it's a damn bug in the code and incurable at this point.

It does occur to me that the best way to sort this out might be to corner Dave Oppenheimer at a show or conference and ask him what HE thinks…

Offline Syntho

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Re: Drum matrix weirdness
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2018, 05:12:21 PM »
Are your note names working? If so which version of SVP are you using and on what Mac and which OS? I'm running a couple 9600 machines anywhere from System 7 to OS8.6. I should probably go test on OS9 but I think that's probably what you've got running yourself.

I have fresh installs of 7.6.1 and 8.6, no other fonts installed except the ones required to run Vision. When I install them I put both formats of Aloisen into the folder. What's ATM?

macStuff

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Re: Drum matrix weirdness
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2018, 05:54:39 PM »
ATM = adobe type manager

Offline GaryN

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Re: Drum matrix weirdness
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2018, 07:29:54 PM »
Are your note names working? If so which version of SVP are you using and on what Mac and which OS? I'm running a couple 9600 machines anywhere from System 7 to OS8.6. I should probably go test on OS9 but I think that's probably what you've got running yourself.

I have fresh installs of 7.6.1 and 8.6, no other fonts installed except the ones required to run Vision. When I install them I put both formats of Aloisen into the folder. What's ATM?
No, my note names do NOT work in the pop-up. I never gave it much thought because I never change them. I made a note names document with the drum assigns to display in the pulse window in the order I like - kick on the bottom, crashes on top - and then I tweak the kit in Galaxy+ on a song by song basis.

I use 4.5.1 in OS 9.2.2

Aloisen is the music notation font and has nothing to do with this. The possibly "missing" font(s) I'm talking about would be original Mac system fonts.
Those reside in the System Fonts Folder and are called by apps as needed. They're called for by number - NOT by name and there was a long-term cluster f**k for a while in the late evolution of the Mac OS with crazy-fast development of new fonts from Adobe, Aldus and others. There was a fight over FONT and FOND numbers. I think SVP is calling a Font that's not present OR it's calling a font in a size that's not present and the system is trying to substitute a Truetype scalable font which would be fine if SVP would accept it, BUT I think the SVP code may pre-date wide adoption of scalable fonts, period. It is a DAW after all without much need for advanced font handling in most areas since it doesn't print much stuff.  Since that would have been fixed in an update that didn't happen, instead of text in the pop-up you get an ellipsis, which folks often programmed to appear if a font couldn't be found or (more often) was too big or small for the space. I am not forgetting that in a few areas, such as in the counter window, SVP will call any font installed without issue - I just think maybe they didn't get around to updating the note name pop-up.

I'm thinking this is a decent guess since we know it at least worked somewhere along the line - we've seen it on U-Tube! So, it's less likely that a bug just suddenly appeared and caused this than it can't find the font it wants.

So, this is pure guesswork and may be dead on or not even close. testing the theory will require researching exactly which fonts could even be possible in the space (I thinking very small Geneva or similar sans-serif types), identifying them and trial-and-error installing them in a system to see if you get lucky.

Offline Syntho

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Re: Drum matrix weirdness
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2018, 08:47:19 PM »
I read somewhere that OS8.6 and below is best to use SVP. OS9 came out in mid 1999 so I'm thinking Opcode probably had a chance to test everything on OS8.6 at least, seeing that 8.6 came out shortly before and kind of coincided with Opcode's demise. Regardless, we get the same thing on System 7 so hmm...

I'm looking for some older versions of SVP but I can't get them working since you need an authorization disk to get them authorized. Versions 3 and below don't have the pulse edit window so I need a copy of 4.0 or something prior to 4.5.1 to test it out and see if it clears up. My 4.2 or so version of DSP has a crack in the CD so I can't test it.

Offline GaryN

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Re: Drum matrix weirdness
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2018, 11:32:48 PM »
I'll keep futzing around with as I have time. Maybe I'll stumble over the answer…

Offline Syntho

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Re: Drum matrix weirdness
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2018, 03:08:26 AM »
I'll keep futzing around with as I have time. Maybe I'll stumble over the answer…

I can confirm that DSP 4.1 is working and doesn't have this issue. Try this copy and see: https://cloud.mail.ru/public/KxsY/DCvopb9df

Offline Syntho

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Re: Drum matrix weirdness
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2018, 09:40:39 PM »
Also, I just realized something: when I select some measures in the Matrix mode using the DSP 4.1 version, Vision correctly selects what I've actually selected instead of being off by a few ticks. This is yet another bug that is in SVP and not DSP.