Author Topic: Guide to Create a Portable External FireWire Drive for Mac OS 9 w/ Partitioning  (Read 3609 times)

Offline DieHard

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External FireWire Drive for Mac OS 9 Project
A few details that you may (or may not) know

I will focusing this post on smaller Notebook-sized, hard drive enclosures.  Desktop drive-based FW enclosures also work, but they are bulky and require external power.  Portable drive cases can be powered off the FW bus without the need for a power pack.

Portable FW drives are very convenient for traveling and storing and work just as good as full-sized desktop enclosures. As many of you know, FW drives can be used as Backup solution, extra storage solution, and even as an emergency boot device.  You can make an exact copy of Mac's your internal boot partition by cloning it, using the apple ASR software, or simple dragging the files to a partition to the external FW drive (if you have no copy protected programs); this can boot you mac with all the contents in the event of an internal drive failure.

OK, so it's been a while since I did a step by step post. 

Some of these details are spread around a bit, but I wanted to consolidate the info. and make a "How to" guide and also explain a few things that may NOT be so obvious...

Why Make an External FireWire Drive, when I can just buy one off ebay ?

Well, I am glad you asked...

1- If you buy a large FireWire drive (200GB+) and plug it into your make mac, you will realize that you can only format it as one large partition using the "Apple Drive Setup" Utility.  So, if you plan to open the external case, put the hard drive internally  into your mac (to partition it) and re-install it into the case, good luck; Many pre-made external FW drives by Lacie and iOmega are almost impossible to open and extract the Notebook drive (there are clips, not screws) that will get damaged and you will most likely get very frustrated and gouge your perfect drive casing to hell with a flat-head screw driver.

2- A "used" ebay hard drive, may not be that reliable to begin with, and running diagnostics on the actual hard drive will be challenging in it's case

3-  A 3rd party tool, like HDST, will indeed partition the FW drive into as many equal size partitions as you want, but it replaces the standard HD drivers upon formatting and the volumes may or may not mount if you connect it to another mac that does not have HDST installed on it.  In general, I shy away from 3rd party utilities since I want my drives to be readable (without errors or glitches) from any mac, so I like to stick with the Apple Tools that have less room error.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can I build my own External FireWire Drive, so aviod all these issues ?

Yes, dumb-ass, that is why I am making this post...

1-  Start with a good case.  So many OWC cases are the top of the food chain.
One important note is that OWC releases different versions of their cases and does NOT change the names, make sure you are buying a case with FW400 or FW800 ports, the other ports do not matter.  Be carefull not to buy a case with USB only as OS 9 can only operate at USB 1.0 and you be very sorry !
Almost all have the oxford FW chipset (the best). They look awesome.  And you can get any standard brand new Notebook SATA drive or SSD to go in without a hassle.  Also you can even get the "Mini Dual" as I have mentioned in the past, that supports 2 Notebook SATA drives and has Hardware RAID 1 (to mirror your data) built into the case !

OWC Mercury On-The-Go Portable 2.5" FW800/USB3.0 Enclosure Kit for Serial Sata
Damn, a real beauty. Not cheap, but who cares; this is the one you want, even if you have to save your lunch money.

The best choice for a single drive case winner

OWC Mercury On-The-Go Portable 2.5" FW800/USB3.0 Enclosure Kit for Serial Sata
You can configure the RAID as RAID 1 (Mirror, protect data) or RAID 0, (Stripped, gain speed, if either drive fails, you loose)

The best choice for a Dual RAID case winner

2- Use cool quiet SSDs or large 5400 RPM Notebook drives.  Do NOT use hot 7200 RPM drives in external cases, you are at the bottle-neck of FW anyway, so why heat things up in cases.  Most desktop drive FW cases have fans, notebook drive cases do not.  Some of today's 5400 Notebook drives have lots of cache and run at read/write at lightning speeds. A 1TB mechanical drive will cost around $50.  A great choice is the Seagate 1TB BarraCuda 5400 RPM 128MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 2.5" Laptop Internal Hard Drive ST1000LM048.  Sells at New egg for $49.99
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822179108&ignorebbr=1

Seagate 1TB BarraCuda 5400 RPM with 128MB Cache !

Of course an SSD is the best option in the performance arena... but the mechanical is the best bang for the buck :)

3- Get a USB to SATA and partition the drive inside your mac:




Keep all partitions to 190GB or less if possible on large mechanic drives (so you can defrag them later), if you will be using it as extra storage and you will be doing Audio/Video editing directly to the FW drive.  SSD obviously, read/writes to the entire drive at the same speed, so NEVER defragment SSD partitions/drives.  If it is a backup drive only, perhaps make one 190GB or less so that you can boot to it via FW if you copy Mac OS 9 to it and make all the other partitions any size you want, but research and be aware of Mac OS 9 file limitations as far as file name character length, total path length, number of files, etc.  Also, the number of volumes that will mount on the desktop.  Remember, a 1 TB or 2 TB (1000GB to 2000 GB) drive would have been hard to fathom back in the classic Mac OS days... so I would avoid making partitions larger that 500GB in any case... but that's just my opinion.  Also remember, if you want to re-partition later with Apple Drive Setup, you have to pull the drive from the case, and all data goes bye-bye.

I now call upon my core members to add information about what FW portable cases they have tried that work excellent under Mac OS 9


« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 08:26:05 AM by DieHard »

Offline Bob_D

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Hoi, i have a few Lacie Quadra cases (FW400/800, usb2 & sata) with 2TB drives and an older FW/usb case (500 GB pata/ide hd build in). On my QS867 booted in os tiger or leopard I can partition (apple partition + 0s9 drivers) the FW-drives and they are bootable under OS9 if partitions are small enough. Oddly it seems you'll have to make ten partitions (189Gb each) on the 2TB drives to get them small enough. At first sight I couldn't make one small (sliding in drive setup stops at 250 something) and a few larger (+500GB) partitions on the 2TB drives.
So if you have a dual boot machine this looks to be the easy way ...

Offline DieHard

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As discussed many times... I personally (with much outside debate) do NOT recommend using the same FW drive for both OS X and OS 9, OSX with eventually cause errors... like the infamous "Btree 0,0" Header error and long file name issues...
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2830.0

What makes you think apple cared about file integrity for OS9 after OS X came out ?  Have you read about all the blunders in the new APFS... history repeates at apple, they only look forward

Basically, even mounting OS 9 Drives with spotlight on will eventually write things to the OS9 drive/partition that Mac OS 9 will not understand and flag as issues when running "disk first aid" and other utilities in OS9.  So, I still stand by this statement.  Some run "Dual-Boot" for years and never have an issue... some end up with all sorts of file issues... I prefer, Dual macs (1 OS X and 1 OS 9) over dual boot and my OS9 FW never "touches" an OSX machine; but that's just me... Mr. Paranoid :)

Offline macStuff

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the btree error is the most aggravating error
but its usually easy to recover from by just copying the data to another drive + formatting the drive and then copying the files back again, but its a huge pain in the ass that CAN be sidestepped + prevented if you heed the advice

another great fix if you really must have the osx drive in the same machine is to disable the osx drive mounting in os9's drive setup

i think the same is possible to prevent the os9 drive from being mounted in osx aswell https://www.cnet.com/how-to/prevent-a-partition-from-mounting-in-os-x/ https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-7942
we should make a graphic tutorial because the options are kind of buried in submenus
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 08:35:45 PM by macStuff »
aka chrisNova777 aka superNova777 aka geforceG4 | >>> http://www.oldschooldaw.com

Offline DieHard

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the btree error is the most aggravating error
but its usually easy to recover from by just copying the data to another drive + formatting the drive and then copying the files back again, but its a huge pain in the ass that CAN be sidestepped + prevented if you heed the advice

Yes, 100% agree, I think the post I mentioned also says that. Just copy files off and re-partiton/reformat drive with issues and copy files back

another great fix if you really must have the osx drive in the same machine is to disable the osx drive mounting in os9's drive setup

i think the same is possible to prevent the os9 drive from being mounted in osx aswell https://www.cnet.com/how-to/prevent-a-partition-from-mounting-in-os-x/ https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-7942
we should make a graphic tutorial because the options are kind of buried in submenus

Yes also disable "Spotlight" in OS X as mentioned in other posts, or just keep OS 9 stuff away from X to avoid too much thought :)

Offline macStuff

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well if the drive isnt mounted at all... pretty sure that means its not accessed! even for indexing
aka chrisNova777 aka superNova777 aka geforceG4 | >>> http://www.oldschooldaw.com

Offline DieHard

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well if the drive isnt mounted at all... pretty sure that means its not accessed! even for indexing

Good Point... just figured I would give a little extra info. :)

Offline MacTron

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3- Get a USB to SATA and partition the drive inside your mac:


Just a side note: Apple Drive Setup 1.9.2 can format (and make all the partitions you want) most HD's inside firewire enclosures.
Attached Apple Drive Setup 1.9.2 in case someone need it.
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline DieHard

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3- Get a USB to SATA and partition the drive inside your mac:


Just a side note: Apple Drive Setup 1.9.2 can format (and make all the partitions you want) most HD's inside firewire enclosures.
Attached Apple Drive Setup 1.9.2 in case someone need it.

Well that kinda changes... LOL, so they removed ability that is Drive Setup V2.1 ?   I really did NOT remember that v1.9.2 can do it... I thought I used HDST or FWB before Mac OS 9.2.2.  So, just to clarify...  You can have the latest FW extensions, a 9.2.2 System, and simply run the older drive setup version :)   Any issues with doing it this way ?

Offline MacTron

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Well that kinda changes... LOL, so they removed ability that is Drive Setup V2.1 ?
Probably ...
Quote
So, just to clarify...  You can have the latest FW extensions, a 9.2.2 System, and simply run the older drive setup version :)
That's it.  :)
Quote
  Any issues with doing it this way ?
No, AFAIK.  :)
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline dr bu

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so today i bought an 2.5 wd green 120gb ssd to put in a usb2 FW400 enclosure -Tas120!? that ive been sitting on for like three years.
for some reason drives in this enclosure with blessed systems looking obidient when pressing alt at startup much to my greif always refused to boot. i had access to files but never solved this problem.
well today just for the kick i asked drive setup 1.9.2 to single partion and transfered a regular systemfolder.
im here to report booting worked most charmfully!
bending is tuning

Offline DieHard

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As usual... M.A.R.L. gets it done :)

Offline Bob_D

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Think it's a good idea to keep os 9 and osx apart. But would partitioning under Tiger/Leopard and then using the FW only in os9 still be problematic?

Offline IIO

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But would partitioning under Tiger/Leopard and then using the FW only in os9 still be problematic?

that would be the most straight forward way how to do it - given that you have OSX available on the machine.

i have partitioned all my firewire drives using OSX 10.4.11, both IDE and SATA 300 and i would almost claim that they work better in OS9 than in OSX :)
« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 01:30:07 PM by IIO »
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline billyboy

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Hey guys... glad to be back here. My name is billyboy, and I can see this place has exploded since 2012! Die hard, I have a question. Can  u tell me what brand ssd FIREWIRE hard drive to use to run cubase 5.2.2 on a G4 933 quicksilver desktop. Can I put a couple of them inside or are they external?  Also where do I get the drive and what is the adapter I need. I am fairly coherent in working on these old horses, but it has been a while since I have worked on my music. Here is my delimma: I have tons of songs that  I am about to start mixing, and I need something that is stable to back them up. Also, the reason I am going with ssd technology is that I have had trouble in the past with defragging these older type drives (too full)? And before u ask... I did make sure that all partitions were under 190 GB. IT WOULD FREEZE HALF WAY THROUGH THE DEFRAG! My computer is full to the brim and I do not want to lose 25 some odd years of hellish work that I have put into this stuff! Honestly, I am overwhelmed by it all. Are these ssd drives more stable? Are there glitches? I sure do like not having to defrag! There is something plain scary about wondering if all this work will just go up in a puff of old tech smoke! Anyhow... thanks... in advance for the help.

 By the way... I have all of it backed up on three drives, and another external drive. I use a mac with OS X as a front end keyboard patch generator and mastering unit for the back end (T-Racks 3 mastering suite), but i will not let my OSX computer anywhere near the OS 9 files! I also like to know if you guys know of some other effects processors that can now be used within Cubase 5.1 that are worth a damn... Once  again... thanks in advance, guys. Billyboy
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 11:03:03 PM by billyboy »

Offline billyboy

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Sorry... I accidentally posted... I am mainly wanting some kind of front end UAD type of front end preamp /compressor software. I don't care about graphics, only that it sound good. Thinking about using the logic program in my OS X computer as a front end preamp compressor. I believe less is more, but I like having the tools when they are needed! Are effects processors that are in the DAW download  pretty good  - it has been years since I have  used some of them? This is the only thing i dont like about cubase 9.2.2... the compressor o board channel plugs are not real good, and there are no software channel plugs for preamps. Maybe the bad graphics are messing with my head. Heh heh heh...

However before I do anything I need to get these SSD hard drives set up and get that FIRST problem out of the way! BB
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 10:41:30 PM by billyboy »

Offline IIO

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i am not sure if you are in the right thread... but i can confirm that you need either a powercore or a UAD to have a simple "amp" type of plug-in. really sad ;)

regarding disks, via the firewire interface there should not be a limit what SSD works or not, same as with HDs.

using SSDs under OS9 via IDE or SATA is tricky though, many modern models wont work.

"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline billyboy

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Hey buddy... thanks for the help. I would gladly go to the right thread.

Hey, I read here last night until the wee hours, and unfortunately, it seems that after my 5 year break from recording (or should I say, my brake from being a 24/7 computer tech with cubase), one thing is clear... there is no backup strategy that is perfect under 0S 9.2.2, WHEN RUNNING CUBASE!

 Frigging old techknowledgy sucks! Bring on the ceramic glass indestructible drives... please.

I thought about going to pro tools in OS X, but it will probably be more of the same crap! Plus, I would have an immense, time consuming new software learning curve, as well as a lot of money spending. And aren't these glued together new macs just the bomb! Lol! What a world...Not to mention the fact that if i did go to OS X, i probably couldn't get my dozens of songs to open in pro tools without having to physically align the tracks and set up all the effects and automation manually! All I ever wanted was to be a musician and songwriter (grew up listening to Beatles, Stones, cat stevens and Zeppelin), not a computer tech, engineer, jack of all trades.

Oh well... tis life...

I figured that after taking a five year break from recording, u guys would have everything ironed out on using the vintage OS 9 stuff! Lol!

Can anyone tell me what to do? This stuff will drive u crazy!

By the way... I am confused... do the ssd drives run with sata AND firewire? Sorry about my ignorance. I have the sonnet tempo serial Ata card which provides 2 ports for my 2 sata drives. this makes the sata drives work - sometimes, along with the 2 red cheesy adapter cords. My current 2 internal drives use this, but half the time one of them does't show the drive icons when I boot up, hence I have to reboot for them to show up. It is hit and miss...Do I just plug in the new ssd drives to the card, or do i hook them to firewire?

Also, where can I get the UAD Card. Are they still in business, and it it any good as far as far as preamps and compression? I bet it burns up all the cpu, huh? Thanks guys. Billyboy
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 10:28:51 AM by billyboy »

Offline IIO

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not sure what you mean with backup strategies for a certain program. it was not required for OS9, but if you make sure that your project files are together in one folder with the audio files, you can make a backup of your projects by copying that folder to another physical disk.

CPU... no, using such a DSP card mainly aims at saving CPU power, by moving the plug-ins processing on the card.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline billyboy

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Hey diehard,

I bought a 1 TB OWC NOTEBOOK SSD FIREWIRE drive today, along with the fancy clear case, and am ready to partition the thing, and install the OS 9 operating system in my G4 933 kHz mac, but I am confused as to which cables I am going to hook to in my computer, and which adapter I need. I have a sonnet DUAL SATA CARD installed in the PCI SLOT and I have 2 drives running off of the card, and another 3 drives being powered by the stock IDE cables that came with the computer. Where exactly do I plug this drive in? I bought the case you recommended, but I cannot figure out which cable to hook it too, and therefore, I am not sure which Adapter I need either. Do I even need an adapter? My sonnet card has two SATA drives, with SATA cables hooked to it. bb

Offline IIO

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i am not diehard but you re looking for firewire 400 to firewire 800 cable, also known s 9pin to 4pin. then you format the drive from OSX, turn the OS9 dirvers option ON and make at least two partitions, one smaller than 190 mb. that is where you put OS9 onto.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline DieHard

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Hey diehard,

I bought a 1 TB OWC NOTEBOOK SSD FIREWIRE drive today, along with the fancy clear case, and am ready to partition the thing, and install the OS 9 operating system in my G4 933 kHz mac, but I am confused as to which cables I am going to hook to in my computer, and which adapter I need. I have a sonnet DUAL SATA CARD installed in the PCI SLOT and I have 2 drives running off of the card, and another 3 drives being powered by the stock IDE cables that came with the computer. Where exactly do I plug this drive in? I bought the case you recommended, but I cannot figure out which cable to hook it too, and therefore, I am not sure which Adapter I need either. Do I even need an adapter? My sonnet card has two SATA drives, with SATA cables hooked to it. bb

Well I am still unsure of the goal.  Normally, you would put 1 SSD Internal via a SATA card or PATA/IDE Adapter to boot, run the OS, and apps for speed; I am now guessing you want to do all that using a FW drive, which is doable also...  :o

Offline billyboy

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Hey guys

I have been dormant on the G4 for 5 years now and it is unreal how much knowledge i have forgotten. If u dont use it u lose it!
A year or so ago I had a drive crash in Cubase that had over a hundred songs on it. It crashed when I was defragging it and before you ask... yes the partitions were less than 190 gigs... Thank God I had it backed up I'll be honest the main reason I went with the SSD drive is to not have to defrag my drives any longer and to be able to use larger petitions to store my musicon... 30 years is a long time recording creative song works and it's an ill feeling waking up everyday knowing that all of your work could be gone in a puff of smoke. I realize that the mechanical disc drives are far cheaper but just having the ability to not defrag is worth the price difference! If this SSD works I will buy a second drive 4 my Quicksilver.

Since I started researching this subject here i accumulated a list of the terms in the among the computer Gurus i have questioned  while investigating this storage dilemma... here is the list There are SATA ,IDE,HD, SSD, FIREWIRE 400, FIREWIRE 800, USB1&2,SONNET CARDS WITH SATA , DESKTOP DRIVES, NOTEBOOK DRIVES, dozens of adapters Not to mention all the quirks and little glitches you have to remember to even run cubase OS 9.2.2

Die Hard in your article alone there were probably a dozen different references to what kinds of adapters drives and other info I would need to know how to accomplish this!

Anyhow I digress

One of one of the things I can understand is why I need one partition on this fire rod wire drive to be bootable and secondly should I place this drive in the G4 in its little case or as an external drive I store right next to the G4. The first priority for me is to have solid backup that doesn't need defragging. secondly if it will boot it would be nice to just drop and drag the files on i lose on a crashed mechanical Drive of the G4 when that drive has crashed. I have wondered however if I actually could run Cubase on this SSD drive or would it not be fast enough. That brings us to efficiency and stability I have noticed little glitches and changes in automation after my computer has sat stored for a while. I have heard that the SSD drives are far more stable and don't have as much data corruption as the mechanical drives

So to sum it up 30 years of work and the benefit of stability and not having to defrag partitions make the twelve to fifteen hundred dollar investment not really seem that bad of a deal. And once again , thanks you guys for taking the time to discuss these perplexing problems we encounter. BB

Offline DieHard

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Quote
The first priority for me is to have solid backup that doesn't need defragging. secondly if it will boot it would be nice to just drop and drag the files on i lose on a crashed mechanical Drive of the G4 when that drive has crashed. I have wondered however if I actually could run Cubase on this SSD drive or would it not be fast enough. That brings us to efficiency and stability I have noticed little glitches and changes in automation after my computer has sat stored for a while. I have heard that the SSD drives are far more stable and don't have as much data corruption as the mechanical drives

OK, that helps a little...
1) The SSD via firewire will certainly be fast enough for any DAW in the OS 9 arena; many used to run FW Glyph and other drives (mechanical in rack mount cases) and OWC Raid units in Rack mount FW cases running both the OS and audio data volumes, so yes, it is No problem.  In the G4 world you will need an external case with FW400 or a FW800 port and you can use the popular FW400 to 800 cable or an adapter (No FW800 in Mac os9); it will simple put the 800 port down to 400.
2) if you want the "disaster recovery" boot off the FW drive, then make the 1st partition on the SSD 190GB or less, the rest can be as large as you want for volume 2, use our apple ASR program to make a perfect image or your DAW and restore it to the 1st partition of the FW to keep all authorizations for plugins intact
3) Use the drive setup 1.9 as we have discussed at length here to partition and format the external so you don't end up with 1 big partition
4) make sure you backup data, even on the SSD, they fail all the time and are NOT as perfect as they sound, I have seen many SSDs die in less than 24 months, there are many OWC and other boxes that are both RAID 1 (mirror) and Firewire, they take notebook hard drives or SSDs, that is what you really want if you do NOT want to be a slave to backups and dragging crap around
NEWER TECH: Guardian Maximus mini is very dood for the price (maxes out at 1TB mechanical or SSD drives)
I am looking at 5 on the shelf; these fuckers are small and fit in the palm of your hand !
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/GM8QM7S10T32/?gclid=CjwKCAjwyMfZBRAXEiwA-R3gM4uWw9MWToZL-DL8ix5wbJeyaIKScyvDaAH17A6axoU3vufQdqHMJBoC3LUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Amazing SAVE $50 !!!! The RAW Empty enclosure is down to $49 !!!!!
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/GMM8QKIT0GB/

My other favorite is the OWC dual Mini firewire (all metal) but bigger than the Guardian, both are excellent, both do hardware RAID, both have FW400 (but check the OWC model since they sell mutiple models with different ports)

Offline IIO

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i am also not sure about your aim. if you have 2 IDE ports and 2 SATA ports in your computer, so you only need to usse firewire when you need a fifth (or higher) drive.

for important backups for example i use my second IDE HD.

everything external is left for jobs which aren´t daily jobs.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline billyboy

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Can somebody tell me how to run the 1.9.2 drive setup? I downloaded it (from the post above) but cannot get the drive setup window to open? It tells me that the original program is not available.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 09:44:22 PM by billyboy »

Offline IIO

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seems you have bad luck again :)

your OS obviously think that you tried to launch an alias.

if it doesnt go away after rebooting, try -> rebuilding the desktop DB.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline billyboy

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Hey IIO,

Doesn't work. I have never had so many problems partitioning a drive. I downloaded the file and it doesn't work. Do you know where I can get a startup disk that has disk setup 1.9.2. The file looks weird... like a windows file or something. I need to find a apple startup disk that has it - 0S 8.6 maybe? just gonna take some searching... thanks IIO.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 11:03:21 AM by billyboy »

Offline Fury deBongo

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Hey billyboy,

Try this attachment (from Mac mini OS 9 Install CD, via iMac running El Crapitan).
If for some reason this does not work / or make the journey, 1.9.2 is also available
with The Mactron Rescue/Disk Repair/Install disk here:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1654.0.html

...Or my personal favorite:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1657.0.html
This Must Be The Place / RH-SC Resident Hoarder - Studious Collector

Offline billyboy

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thanks fury...

When I downloaded the file, it said that it could not find the application program that created the document "drive setup 1.9.2". I am usinbg classilla for my internet, and i am lucky to even have it running... heh heh heh!

Offline Fury deBongo

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Well maybe try the 2nd MacTron download noted
above and see if that will be better/easier for you?

Someone had posted and attached the solo 1.9.2 file
previously, but I can't seem to locate that at present.

Best of luck.
This Must Be The Place / RH-SC Resident Hoarder - Studious Collector

Offline billyboy

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hey fury... I am lost here, and am NOT a guru with this stuff - as you can definitely tell by my responses. I can run cubase 5.1 and do some basic recording, however... I am wanting to partition a guardian maximus mini raid mirrored dual 1 TB drive for a backup drive, and load the free software of Cubase 5.1 free DAW package onto the first partition [the free download that diehard did]. I was going to build my own drive in the mini template, and use a sata adapter that diehard recommended above, but then I saw this download which would make it possible to partition the mini firewire drive without the hassle. What a clusterfuck. The further I go, the more complex it gets not to mention that I don't even know if the disk setup 1.9.2 even works for partitioning the firewire device. Can you tell me what adapter I need to connect the mini drive manually, internally to my G4 to partition it in OS 9, and what hooks to what inside. Diehard shows pictures of two adapters, but that doesn't make me know where to hook it up in my G4.

Offline Fury deBongo

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Sent you a PM. ???
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Offline billyboy

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Thanks fury...

Hey... I changed my mind about the ssd drive and ordered the dual 1tb striped guardian maximus mini backup. Hey has anybody here used this in OS 9? I cannot see how it can impliment raid software,  WITHOUT EXPOSING OUR OS 9 FILES to various OSX friendly software? The software that keeps tabs on and stripes the data is OSX...I THINK! OWC said it works in OS9, or they will refund. Looks like I'm in for an exhilarating weekend of computer programming, anyhow.

I gave up on the disk setup version 1.9.2. Instead, I ordered a  SATA  to IDE adapter, and I am just gonna go fur it... mannually set up partitions, and then hook it up with FireWire.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2018, 09:55:44 AM by billyboy »

Offline IIO

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dont overcomplicate things.

if you have bought a raid enclosure, you dont need to do anything with software based raid.

connect it to the computer (and for OS9: reboot) and it will work.

if you waant to bott from OS, you need one partition not bigger thn 190, otherwise it is reecommended to mke prtitions of 500 gb. but it will work with 1 or 2 terabyte volumes, too.

since  - in my opinion - striping is overkill for firewire 400 (because one hrddisk is alredy fasteer than this connection type) i would turn off raid (if the enclosure allows that) and use it as 2 1 terabyte disks.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline mrhappy

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Amazing SAVE $50 !!!! The RAW Empty enclosure is down to $49 !!!!!
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/GMM8QKIT0GB/


Couldn't resist so I ordered a few of these! ;D

Offline billyboy

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My question is this, IIO...

In order to boot from OS 9 from the enclosure (for emergencies), you have to initialize the two mini drives, in order to initialize them and partition them correctly). It says so in the pdf manual. They told me that it will work with OS 9, but I don't see how, because it uses OSX software to index the files, no matter what you do. So even if i set up and partition the mini maximus, it will still use OSX to handle the files when they get to the mini. I do not want OSX software anywhere near my song storage files. They told me when I purchased  it that it would run in OS9 (just as their ad told me), but when I asked about the way the machine indexes and stores the files, they kept ignoring the fact that OSX files were going to be used by the mini for indexing the drives.Truth be known, they don't give a flying fuck about what happens to those files, but then they didn't spend the last 25 years recording them, I did! I read their ad on their site, and it says it is OS 9.2.2 compatible, but then I read the pdf, and got another story. They lied, or at best... they don't know. I do know this one thing...I won't use my cubase files to experiment with using their OSX  hardware. They need to take the ad off their site.

I will not stop until I find out the best way to store these song files... but this I do know, they will not be placed anywhere near OSX hardware. I know that a lot of people think that OSX will not hurt these files, but I will not risk it.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 10:41:47 AM by billyboy »

Offline billyboy

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One other thing... all the enclosed software disks, as well as the software preloaded on the mini itself, are OSX, and to this very hour, no OWC employee, or tech support has given me any explanation as to what the 9.2.2 compatibility ad claim on their site is referring to! 9.2.2 is never even mentioned in their pdf user manual! And then there is this...

They told me to use the OSX software to partition and when needed, to defrag the drives. How can OSX software defrag OS9 files, and furthermore, why is an OSX drive needing defragging to begin with? Wasn't that one of the reasons for OSX... the need to defrag was now over because of the advanced indexing of X over 9?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 11:07:17 AM by billyboy »

Offline IIO

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because it uses OSX software to index the files, no matter what you do.

what does that mean... using software to index the files.

a harddrive is a harddrive. it does not need to "index" anything.

Quote
So even if i set up and partition the mini maximus, it will still use OSX to handle the files when they get to the mini.

what does that mean... to handle the files. in OS9, OS9 does that. :)

Quote
and it says it is OS 9.2.2 compatible

i have never heard of a firewire enclosure or of mechanical harddisks which would not "work with OS9".

except when it is bigger than 2 terabytes.

Quote
I know that a lot of people think that OSX will not hurt these files, but I will not risk it.

if you have 3 copies of all important data, and know what kind of thing to avoid (i.e. journalled option, norton disk destroyer)  you can use drives with different OS without problems.

you just have to avoid 10.14 because it might change the data structure if you press the wrong button.

but to comme bck to the original problem: if you want to find out how it works, you should g ive us some feedback about what you have been doing until now:

what happens if you connect the disk to your OS9 computer?

are you using the raid functionality of the case you bought or not?

are you sure the harddisks are ok? or could they be broken? have you been using them before?

have you tried yet to format it in OS9? or in OSX? what happens if you do so?



"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

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above you were talking about striping. that maximus thing does not support this raid mode.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline billyboy

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IIO,

Semantics...

The reason I mentioned OSX doing indexing is because it does not need to be manually defragged, as OS9 does. It moves the files into blocks so you wont have to. That means that OS X will start moving the OS 9 files when it does this shuffling. This is why diehard mentioned above to not mix OS9 and OS X files. If I am wrong, I am not too proud to change my view, and I will gladly listen to anyone on this site who can correct me... been trying to figure out how to archive this stuff for years and cannot find someone who knows the truth. Unfortunately, I am not willing to sacrifice 25 years of work on a Whim. I KNOW THIS... this is the moment when I need to know how to correctly do this archiving correctly, because I am about to embark on a journey of mixing almost 300 songs and I want it done correctly and I want them archived correctly. Now is the time to settle this

There has got to be some reason that die-hard mentioned not combining OS 9and OSX  files or he would not have written it in the post above. Surely there is somebody in this world who can answer the questions I have about this subject. IIO, do not think that I don't appreciate your help, because I do... I have listened to everything you posted and I'm considering it seriously. Billyboy

And by the way I type with two fingers and that is one of the reasons my answers seem disjointed

Offline IIO

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and I will gladly listen to anyone on this site who can correct me...

everyone has different experiences and different needs and as you might have noticed... when you ask 5 of us socalled experts you also get 7 different answers. :)

however, it is not so easy to help you to get things working when the goal and the conditions are not clear. we all know how it can feel when stuff doesnt work. but seriously, your anxiety and your assumptions about this and that will not solve the problem. :)

i am using dozens of disks with OS9 nd OSX and in my opinion it is great that i can defrag volumes up to 2 terabytes of size in OSX when needed, because you cant do that in OS9. (of course, in my OSX, i always have things like spotlight turned off - not only because of OS9 but generally)

but this doesnt mean that diehard´s idea to scrictly split it into 9/X to avoid problems would be "wrong" in any way. it is also a proven concept. just as mixing it.

defragmenting audiofiles is something i have done when MacOS 7 came out and harddisks allowed transfer speeds of 8 megabytes per seconds and had a cache size smaller than cubases buffer.

defragmentation is something you normally dont need in real life  today. including OS9.

you can record 35 tracks at once and download from bittorrent in the back and the fragmentation of your audiofiles will still be in the range of 3% and that make zero difference in maximum transfer speed or search time.

defragmentation is an outdated concept.

...

why do you bother about OSX´s influence on your data when you do not plan to connect the disk to OSX anyway? these considerations do not make much sense to me.

if you want to have a safe backup of some older audio projects, you should burn them to CD or DVD immediatly.

harddisks can burn out! they can be dropped on the floor! they can be stolen! they can be abducted by aliens!

and each of these risks is more likely than loosing all your files because the HD was formatted unideally.

if you do not have 2 backups of you immportant data as of today, THAT is what you should really bother about.


"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline billyboy

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I am worried that after I backup my files to the mini, that I will come back to make a change, or remix something, and the files will have been altered by OSX file software... or that they will have been corrupted by some OSX demon... lol...

Offline DieHard

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Dear BB,

I am so sorry if I made you paranoid about mixed boot environments with both OS X and OS 9. Some here have had years without issue when having dual boot systems with OS X and OS 9, that being said, if you search the forum, the dreaded btree 0,0 error does NOT occur in environments if OS X and OS 9 systems and external hard drives are never mixed:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2830.msg19106.html#msg19106

OS X via spotlight or simply mounting OS 9 volumes can write information to the header volume of the drive that OS 9 "first aid" will flag as an error and want to repair...however, most of the time the data can be copied off the volume, the drive can be reinitialized, and the data copied back (but a real pain in the ass).  Now, for safety sake, if you wish to keep OS X away from OS 9, then these weird anomalies when using the OS 9 disk "first aid" will NOT occur.  Also, it appears that very early versions of OS X, like 10.1,10.2, and 10.3 may not create as many issues as 10.4 or 10.5 (but this has to be verified).  Lasty, long files name that look fine in OS X... will display weird characters in OS 9... that alone, is at the very least, annoying.

Now on to defrag, some like Knez, will actually boot to OS X via a DVD and run defragment utilities on large OS 9 volumes (300GB or more)... I have never been that bold.
Also, defraging will only be needed if you are using the ext HD volumes to record and edit, if you are simply copying finished projects to the external volumes, then you will NEVER have to defrag them... this is a subtle, but important point, since you will have to make any volumes 190GB or less if you plan on defragmenting them in the future under OS 9, since Norton Speeddisk will bomb with "out of memory" errors on larger volumes.  I am guessing it cannot load all the blocks in memory that is have to relocate on volumes that are larger than 200 GB, so 190 is the safe bet.

On to OWC, I have never seen the "hardware" based RAID in their External FW enclosures NOT work with OS9.  As IIO mentioned, you said "stripping" (RAID 0) in one of you posts, which is radically different that RAID 1 (mirroring).  Stripping will give you 2 TB of high speed storage (if you use 2 one TB drives), but if either drive fails, you are fuckola... all data gone; if you RAID 2 one TB drives with RAID 1 (mirror) you get 1 TB total storage and you still have your stuff if either drive fails.  Remember, the OWC techs are great, but I am sure there are some kids there that never even saw OS 9, so don't rely on what they say or even what they print since they do not have OS 9 in the mix... it is like buying some new PC hardware and seeing if the literature says it will work with DOS. You have to try it, in general, FW400 is a very safe bet for OS 9, if it works initially, it won't have some crazy issues later, it is doesn't you'll know right away.

As a last note, I have done this with the OWC Mini Dual metal (but have not tested the maximus).  I have taken a single 1 TB Hard drive, partitioned it internally in a G4 and setup all my partitions under OS 9 and even copied data to a few volumes, then I have put it in a RAID case with an additional blank hard drive and the RAID switch flipped to mirror) and viola !!!!  It copied and mirrored all the stuff from the drive with data including partitions to the blank drive and made a healthy mirror set.  So that simulated a drive failure (one drive with stuff and one new) and the case did all the work :)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 11:21:02 PM by DieHard »

Offline billyboy

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Hey buddy,

I meant mirroring, and just used the wrong word (striping)... semantics... sorry guys, trying to relearn the lingo of the computer age of yesteryear...lol!

Diehard,

I had a friend a few years ago, who taught me to never mix the files of the two systems... you just became a second witness. I have always kept my files of the two systems separated on two computers (just like you say), and my buddy was a brilliant computer guy... I guess... lol! I do use my separate OS X computer to do some other stuff (write articles in X, etc) but the  music creation is strictly done on 9... and never the twain shall meet! I do master my OS9 mixes in  X, but those mastered tracks are done on the final mix after they leave the os9 computer, and they aren't put back onto my 9 computer after I master them.

You sound just like my friend concerning the 9 and X mixing...

I have finally decided to go with identicle dual 1 tb drives in the maximus mini (mechanical, not SSD).

Hey, I think your last paragraph answered 95% of the questions I had about setting up the device!

My maximus mini will be here tomorrow, or tuesday or wednesday, with the two mechanical 1 tb drives (uninstalled, so I don't void the maximus mini warranty by taking the drives out of the owc preinstall to initialize and partition them in OS9). If you take the drives out of the maximus that has them preinstalled, you void the warranty on all the components, but if you buy them separately from owc, and initialize, partition, and install them yourself, the warranty remains. Go figure!

Cannot wait to install them! I am going to do exactly what you said you did...

And you are right above... we want the raid mirroring to do all the work!

Hey, diehard, i also read your "low cost upgrade for G4 ssd install in the g4 drive cage" article, and it was awesome! I am doing that after this "backup procedure" is completed! What is the smallest ssd I can use to put the OS 9 and Cubase on, so I can make my main OS9 recording boot disk lightning fast? I am tired of 3 or 4 minute startup times with the old mechanical startup drives. Or could I maybe use a 1 tb ssd and do one small partition for the OS9 and cubase (maybe 60 to 189 gb), and then use the rest of the ssd space as a couple of huge 400 gig partitioned blocks for song data storage? And couldn't those be big blocks (more than 189 gb) - because they do not need defragging? Or will the large partitioned ssd drive slow down my small os9/cubase gb startup block?

What is your recommendation?

By the way.. in reference to your comments on defragging... I defragged a large volume of data recently, and I had the thing freeze up on me, also (using norton utility in OS 9).

Hey my friend, I appreciate the info. I will be downloading the supremo cubase bundle when I get this all finished, first things first. Thank you, man.  bb
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 09:27:07 AM by billyboy »

Offline DieHard

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Quote
Hey, diehard, i also read your "low cost upgrade for G4 ssd install in the g4 drive cage" article, and it was awesome! I am doing that after this "backup procedure" is completed! What is the smallest ssd I can use to put the OS 9 and Cubase on, so I can make my main OS9 recording boot disk lightning fast? I am tired of 3 or 4 minute startup times with the old mechanical startup drives.

A small SSD even 60 GB will be more that enough for OS9 DAW apps and plugins, the EXCEPTION being Sampling. 
If you plan on using HALion or Kompakt with a huge library, then 120GB to 240GB is the ticket.  An SSD and Sampling is pure delight :)  Loads samples crazy fast and gives you instant access to a whole world of sounds.

Quote
Use the rest of the ssd space as a couple of huge 400 gig partitioned blocks for song data storage? And couldn't those be big blocks (more than 189 gb) - because they do not need defragging? Or will the large partitioned ssd drive slow down my small os9/cubase gb startup block?
In the past year, I have seen SSDs fail at an alarming rate; When I say alarming, I am guessing about a 1 to 4 ratio of SSD to mechanical.  So for about every 4 mechanical drives that are 3 to 4 years old, I see 1 SSD fail.  Now, those numbers don't sound all that bad, but this totally sucks ! I was under the assumption that an SSD would fail about as often as a memory stick, NOPE, much higher failure... I test RAM that is 10 years plus old and 28 out of 30 pass, so the bullshit that they fed us that SSDs are nearly impossible to fail is wrong.  Many 2014 to 2016 Macbook airs have come in with stone dead SSDs.  I have (2) Samsung pros on my desk for RMA that are less than 2 years old, so SSDs do fail.  still they are the best alternative for a DAW. If you want my advise.... then try this setup...

Use an SSD with 2 partitions, for Boot drive with all apps, plugins and samples and a second partition for current Audio projects... Current meaning what makes sense to you... 1 album worth ? maybe 2? Definitely more room than 1 or 2 songs, maybe enough for 10 to 15 ?
Then a Mirrored FW drive to backup finished song projects. Keeping an additional "Final Mixes" folder on the SSD to hold ALL fished mixes is also a nice plus for easy access.

Offline Fury deBongo

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Clear, concise and as usual… to the point!

…"and viola !!!!"

Who in the hell is this Viola that DieHard keeps mentioning
and what does she have to do with anything Mac OS 9
(or even OS X) related? Or is it some cryptic reference
to a musical instrument? Might be “code”?

(My sincere apologies. Could-not-stop-myself.) ::)

But, once again… DieHard n-n-n-nails it!

Voilà!!!!

Viola… or no… Viola.
Who was that masked man... Duncan Renaldo?
This Must Be The Place / RH-SC Resident Hoarder - Studious Collector

Offline IIO

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i still dont get why anyone would like to use firewire 400 disks when there are several free internal ports in his computer available which provide faster and bigger storage for less money.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline DieHard

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Clear, concise and as usual… to the point!

…"and viola !!!!"

Who in the hell is this Viola that DieHard keeps mentioning
and what does she have to do with anything Mac OS 9
(or even OS X) related? Or is it some cryptic reference
to a musical instrument? Might be “code”?

(My sincere apologies. Could-not-stop-myself.) ::)

But, once again… DieHard n-n-n-nails it!

Voilà!!!!

Viola… or no… Viola.
Who was that masked man... Duncan Renaldo?

Diehard is the worst speller and unfortunately misspelled words that are "real" words don't get flagged :(

Quote
Diehard sighs, takes another sip of coffee, and contemplates how to mail Fury a pile of Dog feces...

Offline Fury deBongo

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You just wait 'til I tell Viola! :o

Actually, I like/prefer the use of Viola.

Voilà ...is too hard to spell
or even to actually remember.
So there.
This Must Be The Place / RH-SC Resident Hoarder - Studious Collector

Offline IIO

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otoh, Voila! would make great name for a sweet baby daughter.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline mrhappy

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i still dont get why anyone would like to use firewire 400 disks when there are several free internal ports in his computer available which provide faster and bigger storage for less money.

I'm kinda paranoid and use at least both! ;D ;D

Offline billyboy

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Can you guys imagine doing this shit without coffee?

Diehard... I like the idea of making a two partition ssd  drive, One partition for the OS 9, and the deluxe download of the cubase with all the plugs, effects,  samplers - and other bells and whistles...from  this site! And then use the second partition for an  albums worth of songs in the making, and still being produced. Then I back them up on the maximus mini when completed, which maximus then mirrors. Once you get the batch of songs finished and archived, you start on the next batch. So if I used a 250  gig ssd, what would you break it into as far as gigs per each partition? 125 gig in partition 1, and 125 gig in partition 2? I don't think 10 or 15 songs worth of data would use much  more than 40 or 50 gigs, would it?

It looks like it would be between the 125 gig and 250 gig ssd. Every little bit counts when spending money on these ssd drives that might need replacing every 3 or 4 years. What would be the split numbers for how many gigs in each partition, diehard? Should I go 125 or 250? And what brand do you guys recommend?
Thanks... Billyboy blue

Hey... where did you learn how to spell voila? I used that word in an article I did once, and liked to never have found how to spell it... I thought it was wha-lah. Lol!

Offline DieHard

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Less than $100, use with an adapter
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/S3D7E3G250/

You don't need the 6G since your not gonna get anywhere near the 3G anyway, 3 year warranty, a "no-brainer" at that price

As for sizes, splitting in have should provide a nice size audio volume and lots of space for samples on the boot partition

Offline IIO

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Can you guys imagine doing this shit without coffee?

no. i consume up to 5 liters per day.

Quote
I don't think 10 or 15 songs worth of data would use much  more than 40 or 50 gigs, would it?

if you want to know how long your files are, you will be amazed to learn that you can find that out easily by pressing command-I. even better: that works on windows and linux, too.

"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Fury deBongo

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Coffee Deviations
« Reply #55 on: July 10, 2018, 09:27:41 AM »
Can you guys imagine doing this shit without coffee?” - Utter blasphemy!
I consume up to 5 liters per day.” (That’s 1.3208603 Gallons! IIO.)

Perhaps the only “paid” ad sponsor the Forum should seek,
consider... or ever even allow? Coffee!

Unless DieHard could somehow solicit and acquire a Starbucks,
life-time "free coffee" card in the exchange for himself.
(Beware those of German origin, bearing X-mas gifts.)

Usually begin with a pot of leaded java and then boost/bump
with chilled Mocha Frappuccinos®* throughout the day here.
(*Gauche perhaps & not cardiologist approved.)
Charge those paddles!

Maybe, figure total space needed for OS 9 and all DAW and other wanted apps,
double, triple, or quadruple that total and make that the size of your first partition
(boot) and leave the remaining space for the second (“working files”) partition?

And also, not unlike Mr. Happy’s expressed paranoia… and the engineering-phrase
meaning of “redundancy” …those previous “bulk” years’ of files might also be on
an additional back-up, unattached, conventional drive stored in a “safe” place.
I’m just sayin’.

And then… there's always the Dog feces threat (DFT) for deviation...
to also be considered. ;)

But yes… Wah-la! (or Wah-Wah).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usGObvP42GM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVu6nPTVbBQ


And no Duncan Renaldo acolytes? Leo Carrillo?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0kvHIaGiWw
“all that real goodness and top-notch quality…”
This Must Be The Place / RH-SC Resident Hoarder - Studious Collector

Offline DieHard

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I can have as many Cafe-Lattes as i want !

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0jYDYynBps" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0jYDYynBps</a>

Offline billyboy

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Thanks for the info, guys... IIO... that key command will come in real handy, when ivaluating file space.

Offline macStuff

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lol
i miss Kramer
aka chrisNova777 aka superNova777 aka geforceG4 | >>> http://www.oldschooldaw.com

Offline macarone

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>the dual 1tb striped guardian maximus mini backup. Hey has anybody here used this?

This is the absolutely WORST external case I've ever tried!

If you set it to RAID 0, and one of the two drives fails: you lose EVERYTHING on BOTH drives.

If you set it to RAID 1, so that if one of the two drives fails, you still have access to your data, you find that the data on the good drive is UNAVAILABLE until you remove the good drive and put it in a good external case.

The Guardian Maximus Mini is NOT a good external case. It is a stinker.

The safety it promises is totally missing. Not only can't you access your data, bcause it doesn't mount, it DOES show up as being available to format. So after losing a bad drive, it becomes very easy to accidentally erase the good one.

No wonder the price keeps dropping.

Offline IIO

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This is the absolutely WORST external case I've ever tried!

If you set it to RAID 0, and one of the two drives fails: you lose EVERYTHING on BOTH drives.

that is probably not the fault of the enclosure, because all other controllers will give you the same result.

if you need redundancy, use redundancy.

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If you set it to RAID 1, so that if one of the two drives fails, you still have access to your data, you find that the data on the good drive is UNAVAILABLE until you remove the good drive and put it in a good external case.

that is also to be expected. when one of two mirrored drives is not available, you must replace it with new one in order to start the automatic rebuild. that is how redundancy (and therefore data integrity) is realized.

operating half a raid composite is like trying to drive a bicycle with only one wheel.

"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline mrhappy

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like trying to drive a bicycle with only one wheel.
[/quote]

I tried that once... that's why I walk with a limp! ;D

Offline DieHard

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that is also to be expected. when one of two mirrored drives is not available, you must replace it with new one in order to start the automatic rebuild. that is how redundancy (and therefore data integrity) is realized.

operating half a raid composite is like trying to drive a bicycle with only one wheel.
NOT so... every RAID 1 I have worked with in 20 years, both internal and via a case still functions and mounts when degraded

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If you set it to RAID 0, and one of the two drives fails: you lose EVERYTHING on BOTH drives.
Well that's normal with any "performance" stripping, RAID 0 does this by nature, you can't blame the case for implementing the specification

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If you set it to RAID 1, so that if one of the two drives fails, you still have access to your data, you find that the data on the good drive is UNAVAILABLE until you remove the good drive and put it in a good external case.
OK, now that DOES suck, I have never had a drive fail in one of these as I standardized on the OWC Dual mini, and have only use the Maximus over the last 2 years; I have 3 Dual OWC Minis and 2 Maximus.... never had a failure on the maximus... you can remove a single drive from the OWC and it mounts as is readable internally on a mac... I will look into this Maximus thing, which if you are right SUCKS, this assumes you always have a "good" spare on the shelf.
So, again, to clarify, the External is NOT functional with a single drive failure ?!  It goes into "your screwed... use me after you replace the bad drive and I re-mirror" mode... this is NOT as expected.  The case should be functional with a failed drive, like I stated, a RAID 1 system should still be usable when "degraded" 

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The Guardian Maximus Mini is NOT a good external case. It is a stinker.
Hmmm... you maybe correct, I will be testing this when I get some time :(

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The safety it promises is totally missing. Not only can't you access your data, because it doesn't mount
Wow... not good

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it DOES show up as being available to format. So after losing a bad drive, it becomes very easy to accidentally erase the good one.
Do you mean when you attach the good drive on an internal mac controller ?

Offline IIO

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NOT so... every RAID 1 I have worked with in 20 years, both internal and via a case still functions and mounts when degraded

might be that there are cases which do that, but it is not what i would exspect.

unlike with duplexing in n enterprise situation, a raid controller such as you can find in enclosures typicallly writes data only once - but to both drives (mirroring)

now if one drive is missing or broken, why should the other one mount when it is not possible to write to it?

you might want to switch the controller to jbod to access your data, that should always work. i would still remove the broken drive though...






"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline DieHard

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now if one drive is missing or broken, why should the other one mount when it is not possible to write to it?
I Think we are getting confused here, as far as a RAID 1 setup when a single drive fails the RAID goes into a "degraded" state, the Good drive should mount without issue, the Bad obviously will give all sorts of problems

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you might want to switch the controller to jbod to access your data, that should always work. I would still remove the broken drive though...
OK, as far as changing settings from RAID to JBOD (Just a bunch of disks), I do not recommend this, some controllers will zero a drive is you mess with the RAID info, so DO NOT EVER switch a drive's mode if you want the data intact, most Intel Embedded RAID setups will simply remove the "RAID definition" and NOT reformat the drive, so that is a rare exception to the rule; Again, most mirrored (RAID 1) implementations are meant to Mount and work and simply message the user that a drive has failed...

Back to the Ext case thing, since that is the context we were talking about...

NEVER change dip switches or redefine RAID via dials or switches (if you care about the data) since many external boxes that do there own hardware RAID implementation will "nuke" the partition table and basically reformat the drive when changing the RAID definition 0,1,JBOD(no raid).  I can tell you that drives removed from most Firewire RAID ext cases/products I have used over the years as far a OWC, Lacie, and other mac vendors are totally readable if you put the drive on an internal controller. 

Some NAS products, like some of the fucking western digital boxes (and seagate boxes) utilize "encryption" on their circuit boards to the point that all drives show up as "unformatted" if you take them out of the case... a real bummer, to the point you have to get (from china) the exact revision on the Backplane/controller board is you get a fried case...which happens more than you think;  even cases that look identical and may be the exact model will not read the drives, if the board rev in different.... so, I HATE Propriety NAS boxes for this reason, you better have an extra case (exact model) around if your NAS logic board fries

Offline IIO

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your right, i´ve read up the specs and normally only one drive should keep operating normal when the other one isnt readable.

maybe the issue here is that that other drive hangs during mount or something.

removing the broken one should fix that.

removing the good one contains the risk that when you later put it in gain, it might be "restored" from the replaced drive. :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline DieHard

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removing the broken one should fix that.

agreed :)  I was thinking the same thing, maybe the defective drive has a short or something that is stopping "normal" operation, with the dab drive removed, it should "limp" along... we need to confirm if he left the bad drive in the case ???

Offline mrhappy

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we need to confirm if he left the bad drive in the case ???

Well he never actually said he had a drive failure did he? I thought he was just complaining about how the case/raid functioned?? Hopefully he'll stop back with more info.

I bought two of those and have been running some fairly heavy PT sessions with them and they've been great for that. Was about to order a few more but holding off till the dust settles. ;D

I never used raid before but so far I'm liking it! Have a question tho..

The Whole box shows up as a single drive (using Raid 1)... is that how it works? I figured that I'd be able to see them individually but that isn't the case. The lights on the display confirm that all is well so I'm believing it ... for now at least! ;D