old Apple MIDI Manager

[teroyk]

Has anybody any documentation how to support old Apple MIDI Manager in your programs or drivers?
I get trusty inside information, that even Apple programmers doesn't have it anymore.

So if you have any documentation about Apple MIDI Manager please post here.

[macStuff]

greetings Teroyk!

i think u would need a copy of the APDA tools catalog .
which was distributed by "APDA" in the late 80s + early 90s
this stuff is hard to find because it bascially predates the internet itself
and the web archive backup server

heres some outdated contact info:
ApleLink:APDA
CompuServe:76666,2405
Email:[email protected]

these are the services used to be how these sources were accessed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppleLink
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EWorld

from what i read APDA support was transfered to Eworld, in late 1994/early 1995.

this article may provide some clue as to where the support went after Eworld,
https://www.macworld.com/article/2202091/remembering-eworld-apples-forgotten-online-service.html
https://www.cultofmac.com/227785/19-years-later-eworld-is-dead-long-live-eworld/

[macStuff]

during a quick google search i came across this persons linkedin profile:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/hag%C3%A9-van-dijk-68792

looks like he was part of the project team that built apple midi manager v1.0

Hagé is a digital media pioneer. A member of the original QuickTime Team working in product development for over 25 years. He has contributed to many successful products from Apple Computer Inc., Radius Inc., Media 100 Inc., Autodesk Inc. (Discreet), Sonic Solutions Inc. and more. Experienced in studio production, live sound, and product development, he continues to create for Apple.
A highly skilled audio engineer with over 30 years of experience in high-pressure production environments
As the audio mixer for the American Musical Theater of San Jose, Hage made critical contributions creating sound designs and mixing audio for major professional musical theater productions. He has worked extensively with bay area arts organizations and performance venues.

he might be a big help to you! its a shame none of these old-legends ever pop-up into the active communities.. life goes on i suppose. i guess most people move their focus on to new + different things



heres something worth noting:
http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.05/05.11/MIDIToolSet/index.html
seems to have some actual details!!! check this link!

[macStuff]

https://web.archive.org/web/20040629203639/http://developer.apple.com:80/documentation/Carbon/Reference/Carbon_Spec_Porting/MIDI_Manager.html

heres a quick reference to midi manager in relation to carbon framework
it simply states it is NOT supported..

no big surprise there.
but the article does seem to explicitly detail EACH AND EVERY function in the Midi Manager API? (if it is even called an API? framework / library / whatever)

so if u were to make a list of the functions listed on that page and then google for those functions, may be a way to farm more technically explicit relevant results (on google)

[teroyk]

during a quick google search i came across this persons linkedin profile:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/hag%C3%A9-van-dijk-68792

looks like he was part of the project team that built apple midi manager v1.0

It seems that I have to start use linkedin at last..I asked already one old legend (who name I am not allowed say here) who asked from "one of the main engineers" and even he doesn't have information. But Van Dijk is new name for me.

its a shame none of these old-legends ever pop-up into the active communities.. life goes on i suppose. i guess most people move their focus on to new + different things

To me big legend is to me Emagic programmer Michael Haydn, he was even active in internet before Apple bought Emagic. If somebody know him so well that can ask some old documents, let me know. His name comes many times when I ask people about old documents even non Apple documents.

heres something worth noting:
http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.05/05.11/MIDIToolSet/index.html
seems to have some actual details!!! check this link!

That is best so far that I had found. But more would be better.

[macStuff]

i would also check the contents of some of the Developer CD collections available from macintoshrepository / macintoshgarden....

i wonder if any of those collections will date back to the early 1990s...
i think you would be better off finding apple developer cds from back in that time frame
ie: 1989 - 1990 - 1991 - 1992 time frame

this looks like a good place to start:
september 1992
https://www.macintoshrepository.org/1324-apple-developer-cd-september-1992

searching for "apple developer" it seems to be the only "vintage" option available
along with this one:
https://www.macintoshrepository.org/1896-apple-developer-cd-collection

looking carefully it seems they mistyped 1896: probably meant to say 1986
if so this might even predate AMM completely?? or be exactly what you are looking for!
https://www.macintoshrepository.org/software_search.php?s=apple+developer&sid=&p=1

i had thought that AMM dated back to 1989? but that date is probably the release of AMM v2.x - thinking about it now its more probable that v1.0 of AMM dates to 1986-1987-1988 time period even

[macStuff]

on the post i just posted with links to the developer.apple.com "SDK" section..
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4066.0.html

-- unfortunately the "Obsolete-Unsupported" link appears to have not been captured by the web archive backup

"Obsolete-Unsupported contains development kits for Inter•Poll, MIDI Management Tools, and XTND."

actually wait.. the link goes to the ftp.apple old ftp site
ftp://ftp.apple.com/developer/Development_Kits/Obsolete-Unsupported.sit.hqx
^^^^ this is what we are after ^^^^
and its all lumped into one .sit file thats been encoded to hqx to ensure proper extraction
so with this path u should be able to find a backup of the ftp.apple.com/developer/Development_Kits/ section has no such file
http://staticky.com/mirrors/ftp.apple.com/developer/Development_Kits/Obsolete_Unsupported/

using the search here on macos9lives.com reveals a post by user "ProTools5LEGuy"
that references this site:
http://staticky.com/mirrors/

!!! ugh
unfortunately it seems that the .sit file that contains the midi management tools SDK has been removed before *THAT SPECIFIC MIRROR* (staticky.com) was created
http://staticky.com/mirrors/ftp.apple.com/developer/Development_Kits/

close!!! almost had it
we need to find a mirror that was created in 1999 or 2000 and we probably will find that file in it

[macStuff]

http://www.ftpdir.hu/3/order-by2-/ftp.apple.com/developer/Development_Kits
the file is listed here providing the size of the file. its only a 1.1mb file
2001-03-15
1.1 MBFile

maybe someone else can help locate this file..
i gotta move on to other topics

[macStuff]

i think the "SDK" wasnt actually called an SDK at that point in time
i think the title of what we are after is called:

MIDI Management Tools Set v. 2.0
M0240LL/D         $35.00

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=9C87C6EB2464C05A586597CBBCEA7E89?doi=10.1.1.461.7761&rep=rep1&type=pdf

[macStuff]

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/midi-manager/
according to sweetwater development on AMM (Apple MIDI Manager) was halted in 1995 largely due to the rise in precedence of OMS + Freemidi

By Sweetwater on Aug 11, 2000, 12:00 AM
Software developed by Apple for the Macintosh computer to allow MIDI applications to communicate with each other through virtual MIDI connections inside the computer. Basically it works like a virtual patch bay, allowing the user to manually route MIDI data and sync information between components installed in the system. Due in part to the widespread success and usefulness of OMS and FreeMIDI, development stopped on MIDI Manager in 1995. By today’s standards it is relatively slow and cumbersome to use, but there is still the occasional circumstance that requires it.

[macStuff]

its too bad the web backup doesnt have anything farther back then 1999
https://web.archive.org/web/19990422095421/http://developer.apple.com:80/techpubs/macos8/Legacy/legacy.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20000516131103/http://developer.apple.com:80/techpubs/macos8/Legacy/MIDIManager/midimgr.html

MIDI Manager

The MIDI Manager is obsolete and no longer supported. MIDI (the Musical Instrument Digital Interface) is a standard protocol for sending audio data and commands to digital devices. If you are writing MIDI software and need timing, synchronization, and communication services, you may wish to investigate the Open Music System from Opcode Systems, Inc. QuickTime also provides certain MIDI services, such as the ability to play standard MIDI files.

i think this may require a source from 1994 / 1995 or earlier before it was discontinued?
its just so stupid to not just leave the obsolete info linked + accessible. whats so wrong with that?? its only a 1.1mb file!!!!! it really has always SUCKED the way information is handled like this.. i wish there was an even better web archive backup .. the world needs it! somewhere all of this stuff is sitting on a hard drive.. waiting to be found!

[macStuff]

here is a discussion from usenet from 1989!

http://macgui.com/usenet/?group=23&id=8732

ok actually scratch this.. i thought they were discussign the developer tools but it seems
from a quick look that they are only discussing the actual midi manager in its intended use

[macStuff]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer

this is the reason we cant find the apple midi manager tools set!
apple deleted it on purpose probably.. after u pay out millions in lawsuits
im sure they decided it wasnt worth the effort..

all because they both used the name "Apple"
give me a break

[macStuff]

just have to find a proper ftp.apple.com backup server
http://www.ftpdir.hu/order-by3-/ftp.apple.com/developer/Development_Kits
according to the dates shown on this page with non-functional downloads..
the file existed on the ftp.apple.com server as recently as 2007!

but i want to know why the "Staticky" servers contents
are radically different from the ones i see on this stupid ftpdir.hu site that doesnt link to any downloads.. but displays the files + files info that im looking for but cant find
http://www.ftpdir.hu/ftp.apple.com/developer/Development_Kits/Obsolete_Unsupported/

take the contents of this for example and compare wth:
http://staticky.com/mirrors/ftp.apple.com/developer/Development_Kits/Obsolete_Unsupported/

not exactly a proper mirror :/

https://archive.org/details/ftpsites_developer.apple.com
maybe someone with a faster connection can pull this 4.4gb file down and look for the file inside... it would be a great idea to move this content to the macos9lives.com webserver?

[teroyk]

MIDI Management Tools Set v. 2.0
M0240LL/D         $35.00

More information about that:
"
MIDI Management Tools Set v. 2.0
   Apple Computer, Inc.

This toolkit enables developers to transfer data
to and from MIDI devices connected to the
Macintosh via a MIDI hardware interface.  The
data can also be passed using virtual ports
amongh several applications running under
MultiFinder, or between logical ports within a
single application.  Features include:
* Easier to write MIDI drivers
* PatchBay (a graphical interface for
  connecting ports)
* New utility routines
* Upward compatability
* Source code examples for several simple
  applications
* New calls that support advanced MIDI
  Manager applications as well as the
  creation of MIDI device drivers.

...

Product Contents
One Macintosh disk and one 44-page manual.

MIDI Management Tools Set v. 2.0
M0240LL/D         $35.00

APDA's subscription phone # is: 1-800-282-2732.
Ordering will get you a subscription to their catalog.
"

You can find from net the v.2.0.2 update, but it only has updated binary files and it doesn't have
documentation and source code examples and of course not 44-page manual.

[macStuff]

You can find from net the v.2.0.2 update, but it only has updated binary files and it doesn't have
documentation and source code examples and of course not 44-page manual.

exactly -- its not the developers package -- and unfortunately someone decided to package + name the "Consumer/Driver" functional  bits of the app by the same name as the developer package. probably because BOTH were NOT AVAILABLE PUBLICLY untill mid to late 1995... and i think *ALL USERS* had to purchase the midi manager seperately for $30 US as this was not a public download before that time, and of course, they hid/kept the developer files on the downlow.. because most people who purchased it probably werent developers at all, but rather musicians etc but from what i can there was alot of 3rd party + homebrew type apps that utilized the developer tool set package! Yet its nowhere to be found on the net (Easily anyway)

im fairly certain from reading that the developer package, when found, will contain a bit of source code, at least the MIDIArp demo application which arpeggiates any keypresses i assume, just to give a code example.

[macStuff]

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.mac.apps/bAnPcfiJZz8
heres another mention of it - this time for $35 dollars and with an incremented Part Number (order code)
M0240LL/E date: 1993 February 26th

Apple MIDI Manager
    Source: Order from APDA ([email protected])
                Order code M0240LL/E, price USD35
    Description: The official word on how to construct MIDI programs for
    the Macintosh; includes a program disk and 44 page manual. 

u can see this description is clearly describing the developer package?
yet its calling it Apple MIDI Manager... seems like people called it either or and or both the same names

another source here:

Apple also plans to incorporate MIDI Management tools into System 7.0 and allow MIDI Applications to share the same information, according to the presentations at the Apple Worldwide Developer Conference in May.

-- https://books.google.ca/books?id=ijAEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT35&lpg=PT35&dq=apple+midi+manager+developer+set+-core+-usb+-%22audio+unit%22+-%22OS+X%22&source=bl&ots=MqkUms6O4e&sig=_SHpw9YdJLgarQerb58ZKu2WYZ8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj8pvPH1dnXAhXE24MKHe6ACmEQ6AEIZzAQ#v=onepage&q=apple%20midi%20manager%20developer%20set%20-core%20-usb%20-%22audio%20unit%22%20-%22OS%20X%22&f=false
i guess Thats right about when APPLE CORPS takes them back to court.. shortly after may 1989 because as we all know midi manager never made it into system 7?? because of the legal battle between the two? eventually led them to give up completely on the midi manager app... they were probably forced not to have anything to do with music. *smh*
https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/beatles-itunes.htm

[teroyk]

actually wait.. the link goes to the ftp.apple old ftp site
ftp://ftp.apple.com/developer/Development_Kits/Obsolete-Unsupported.sit.hqx
^^^^ this is what we are after ^^^^
.
.
.
close!!! almost had it
we need to find a mirror that was created in 1999 or 2000 and we probably will find that file in it

so that information is not under http..so how about gopher
I found interesting Apple Technical Information Library (TIL) link:
gopher://info.apple.com:70/11/TIL
has anybody archive about that?

[macStuff]

i think the best bet is to locate the obsolete-unsupported.sit.hqx file

ive attached a pdf i found..
is this the 44 page book? i wonder?
or a similarly named package made by an independant developer..
investigating

its not 44 pages its 56.. but maybe htats because of added images? im not sure this is theh right thing.. it would mention midiarp.c and midiarp.h if it was the right one
i dont think it is unfortunately.

this is taken from http://www.rcsprogramming.com/miditools/Main.html
and appears to be for hypercard development... not sure if its at all related to midi management tools

Introduction to MidiTools:

MidiTools is a concise set of midi resources for creating any control oriented stack or application using Apple's Midi Manager. Any application that uses these types of resources ( Hypercard, Supercard, Director, etc. ) can make use of them. There are no timing services in MidiTools; it is strictly designed to allow anyone familiar with scripting, the ability to create sophisticated midi controllers, editors, librarians, etc. using Hypercard as the programming environment.

Hypercard was a natural choice for this because of it's extremely versatile features. Prototyping is much faster because of the ease with which a programmer can create buttons, and fields; and to be able to see the results of a script immediately. There are also many stacks around to show virtually any technique, as well as the example stacks included with the package.

You have 5 types of controls, as well as xcmds for sending and recieving midi data through Midi Manager; and a generic set of data processing utilities to help you convert the sysex data to useable information. There is also a useful editor that will help you to create and edit buttons, fields, and controls more easily than the built in editor in Hypercard.

A fair amount of midi knowledge is necessary for creating complex programs similar to what you see on the market, but can come with time. There are books available from most good book stores and mail order that can help, as well as on-line services that provide many examples, and useful utilities to help you develop your skills.

What is required?

Macintosh  OS9
Midi Manager
Midi Interface

You can run the software in a very limited fashion from OSX in the OS9 emulator, but it is recommended that you run MidiTools on an old OS9 Mac with Midi Manager. You can use the OMS 123 driver for Midi Manager to experiment with OMS only applications, but it is limited at best. The new version of the Run Time Editor from RCS Programming has facilities for controlling midi (CC commands only), so you should probably switch to this...but Midi Tools is free!

this site does have some downloads though, for oms 1.2.3 + "oms midi manager" v1.2.3
Opcode MIDI System v1.2.3 - i think you (teroyk) made a post looking for this a few weeks back?

[teroyk]

i think the best bet is to locate the obsolete-unsupported.sit.hqx file

is this the 44 page book? i wonder?

No. But intresting information about that Hypecard to MidiManager tool called Miditools.