Theory on dead machines (well laptops anyway)

[nanopico]

Who remembers this thread?
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3645.msg24088.html

Now pardon my ignorance as hardware at this level to be discussed is not my specialty and my knowledge is limited.

So I had an iBook it took a dump.
Replaced the logic board and I am a happy person.
New logic board starts reporting bad RAM. Specifically the RAM on the board (these errors are inconsistent and not very often).  So I stop using it for anything important and make sure anything I work on get's stored to my awesome OS 9 File Server!
Now as it degrades, as I expected it would, it finally took a dump as well.  Best part is that it is doing the same level of nothing as the original board, sort of.  When it stops working, it won't chime or respond to keyboard input (no reset or anything) and all that jazz. (See the referenced post for info on the original board issue).  Now this one is a little different. If I leave it sit for a half hour or so, it starts back up and works no problem until it is shut down.  Then nothing. Wait half hour and all is good.  Restarting is a pain as it only get as far as not turning on.
Well this is making me not very happy. I love that iBook.
So here is the theory/question for those of you who want to join in.
Based on all this stuff is it possible that if the RAM built into the logic board takes a shit then the whole board will just die and do nothing as I am seeing?
If these bad chips are removed would it come to life? (I actually think this is very likely myself).
No this would require RAM installed in the RAM socket.
Here are the reasons I think this would work.
1. The latest iBook shenanigans (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok85BmPyl_I) involved faulty RAM. Now it is dead.
2. The likely hood of the original iBook having bad RAM is fairly high. Rather than report errors it just died. These are old machines and all.
3. I have experienced similar issues on a G4 tower. Installed bad RAM and it would do nothing except turn on the power supply.  Change the RAM and all worked on that machine.

Experiment time. I will take the completely nonfunctioning board and unsolder the built in RAM.  Since the board doesn't work anyway, I'm out nothing.  If this actually works, then I can try with this other board. If that works I have a 800mhz iBook logic board and a G4 logic board in similar state to try this out on.

So has anyone attempted this? I can't really imagine I'm the first one to try this.
And no I am not going to attempt to replace it or anything, just straight up remove it.

[MacOS Plus]

  I once attempted to do this with a Dell laptop with a faulty on-board RAM chip.  The unexpected consequence was that the AGP video was sharing system RAM and would no longer display anything.  For some reason it would not allocate RAM from the expansion slot module to the AGP device.

  I don't recall if that iBook has dedicated VRAM or shares system RAM.  It's possible you might end up in the same catch22 I did.

[nanopico]

Well it's supposed to have dedicated vram (8mb) from what I understand.
Well all in all, the worst I would end up with is a dead logic board that was already dead.

[mrhappy]

the worst I would end up with is a dead logic board that was already dead.

Wow... a 'DOUBLE DEAD' logic board!!!

[MacOS Plus]

the worst I would end up with is a dead logic board that was already dead.

Wow... a 'DOUBLE DEAD' logic board!!!

  Isn't it true that two negatives make a positive?

[macStuff]

why not just buy another ibook considering they should be a dime a dozen

[nanopico]

why not just buy another ibook considering they should be a dime a dozen

I have three functioning and one mostly functioning iBooks. I don't really need another one. It's more for the curiosity and the fact that I have them so I don't have to worry about screwing up my only one.
And I'm not willing to pay $100+ USD to replace the specific one in question.

And I'm not one to be thought of as practical all the time.

the worst I would end up with is a dead logic board that was already dead.

Wow... a 'DOUBLE DEAD' logic board!!!

  Isn't it true that two negatives make a positive?

I'm hope so.

[DieHard]

So I had an iBook it took a dump.
Replaced the logic board and I am a happy person.
New logic board starts reporting bad RAM. Specifically the RAM on the board (these errors are inconsistent and not very often).  So I stop using it for anything important and make sure anything I work on get's stored to my awesome OS 9 File Server!

OK, So I am going to make a few assumptions and give a few of my boring comments...

1) I am assuming you downloaded the actual Apple Dealer service guide I posted in the hardware manual section of the forum, if so, always remember to get automotive or other non-conductive electronic spray cleaner and clean ALL old components, also visually inspect (with a magnifying glass) all boards, contacts and connections.  Sometimes RAM needs to haves the contacts cleaned via the contact cleaner on a paper towel and rub it off, then blast paper particles off with air.

2) NEVER, EVER, buy parts off ebay like laptop motherboards, they have to be removed with care; instead, buy "Units that obviously have a good MB, but have another issues" like damaged screen, needs a hard drive, etc.  This will insure that you don't have to worry about how a teenage kid or some moron improperly removed a good part and damaged it; try to find units from a dry area (like southern CA); this will insure minimal corrosion/oxidation.  We spent many years buying parts and when we deviate from this rule, we end up with Mac parts that have broken connectors, static issues, water damage and other problems.  The other choice, if you don't want the extra job of breaking down another unit is to use a well-know vendor like "Power-Book Medic" or "We love Macs"... you will however, pay top dollar   It is rare that you can't have it bother ways, find cheap parts, that were professionally removed

[nanopico]

1) I am assuming you downloaded the actual Apple Dealer service guide I posted in the hardware manual section of the forum, if so, always remember to get automotive or other non-conductive electronic spray cleaner and clean ALL old components, also visually inspect (with a magnifying glass) all boards, contacts and connections.  Sometimes RAM needs to haves the contacts cleaned via the contact cleaner on a paper towel and rub it off, then blast paper particles off with air.

Yes service guide has been had.  The cleaning has yet to be done on the mostly working machine.
 Not only are magnifying glasses useful, but it sure is fun looking at things through them.

2) NEVER, EVER, buy parts off ebay like laptop motherboards, they have to be removed with care; instead, buy "Units that obviously have a good MB, but have another issues" like damaged screen, needs a hard drive, etc.  This will insure that you don't have to worry about how a teenage kid or some moron improperly removed a good part and damaged it; try to find units from a dry area (like southern CA); this will insure minimal corrosion/oxidation.  We spent many years buying parts and when we deviate from this rule, we end up with Mac parts that have broken connectors, static issues, water damage and other problems.  The other choice, if you don't want the extra job of breaking down another unit is to use a well-know vendor like "Power-Book Medic" or "We love Macs"... you will however, pay top dollar   It is rare that you can't have it bother ways, find cheap parts, that were professionally removed

I couldn't agree more about your buying advice.
When I refer to the clamshell's they are actually both full machines.  One just happens to have the logic board I screwed up.  Never was an issue of a used part or anything like that.
The G4 and the white iBook board I have at just the boards. they were replaced with boards from Power-Book Medic for the exact reason you mention buying from them.

On another not.  I find it neat that the board for the FW clamshell boards have traces for 8 RAM chips, but only 4 are used.  I have to wonder if they were originally going to use 8 8MB chips or if there was some vision to add more than 64MB to that board.