Author Topic: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working  (Read 1637 times)

Offline MacOS Plus

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Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« on: April 28, 2017, 09:31:46 AM »
  I recently purchased one of these upgrades off eBay and am trying to install it in a Sawtooth running OS 9.1 but am running into trouble.  I've confirmed the original G4 firmware is correct, as well as correct Uni-North chip to be compatible with multiprocessing.  I installed Crescendo 3.1 software and it ran the firmware patch properly on the next boot.  Once I switch over to the Sonnet CPU the machine will only initialize as far as the grey screen but not showing the mouse pointer or anything else.  Resetting PMU or PRAM made no difference.  It also obviously is never getting far enough along to be an issue of extensions.

  Is there anything obscure I'm missing here?  Are there any OS files that might need to be updated for this?  I've installed quite a few Sonnet upgrades in the past but never had this problem before.  Usually it's straightforward.

Update:

  I'm beginning to suspect that bad socket contact is at least part of the problem.  (No bent pins though.)  After re-seating it a number of times it finally came up to a screen finding no boot device.  The keyboard was initialized now so I reset the machine from the keyboard and it dropped into Open Firmware with a message I've never seen before:

"WARNING! MSSCR values mis-match
DEFAULT CATCH!, code=900 at  %SRR0: 00200f74  %SRR1: 00003030"

  What on earth does that mean?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 10:55:50 AM by MacOS Plus »

Offline Knezzen

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2017, 11:32:57 AM »
Back when I had a "Gigabit Ethernet" G4 and a single 1.2ghz Sonnet Encore ST, i was unable to use any thing else "Classic" than 9.2.2. I got a frozen happy Mac when trying to boot 9.1. So 9.2.2 or OSX was it.

Probably dont help you at all, but its my experience with the Encore/ST accelerators.

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2017, 01:17:03 PM »
Hmmm, well I could live with that I suppose and transfer the 9.1 duties to another machine.

  I tried another drive with 9.2.2 on it and that wouldn't boot either even with the original 400MHz CPU module back in, but strangely a 10.4 Install CD would.  Not even any OS9-based boot CDs would work either so I figured the patch screwed up only that part of the boot mechanism.

  So then I borrowed a good 10.5 drive from another machine to see if I could use that to install the OSX version of the Sonnet software in order to at least undo the patch.  Although it was a bit sluggish at 400MHz, it did surprisingly well.  (Even the video card, which had never shown a desktop on any other OSX boot ever tried with it on any other machine, somehow worked perfectly.)  That was enough to download the Sonnet software with and successfully run the patch removal using the final 3.2 version of the software required by 10.5.

  Then I reinstalled the patch using the 10.5 boot to see if that made any difference.  This time is booted into OSX with the Encore Duet installed.  I put the 9.2.2 drive back in and tried booting that again - no good.  Same weird error where it drops out to Open Firmware.  I don't understand it but at least I know the behavior is consistent with patching via OS 9 on this motherboard.  It would seem that this CPU upgrade simply will never boot pre-OSX OS when combined with this very specific motherboard.  Yet another incidence of the Apple 'voodoo' I've cursed about in the past...

  I don't really need another PPC OSX machine so I don't know what to do at this point.  My other two Sawtooth boards have weird older firmware that won't update with Apple's updater and are not recognized by the Sonnet patcher.  The only other working candidate machine is a Quicksilver, but that one already has the equivalent Giga Designs upgrade installed.  I also have a bare Gigabit Ethernet motherboard but no power supply for it.

  If anyone else has run into this odd snag with the Sonnet G4s please let me know about your experiences.

Offline MacTron

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2017, 01:22:42 PM »
It's really weird ...
This upgrade should work Mac Os 9.2
I have a 7448@1.8 from NewerTech in a Sawtooth and works perfectly with Mac Os 9.2.

Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2017, 02:04:04 PM »
  Long shot - Which other manufacturers' patchers are for the same G4 chip type as the Encore/ST Duet?  Is there a chance one of those would produce the desired result?

  I'm wondering if perhaps I should perform a swap between my Quicksilver and Sawtooth such that the Sonnet ends up in the QS and the Giga in the Sawtooth. 
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 02:19:24 PM by MacOS Plus »

Offline GaryN

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2017, 05:26:45 PM »
Use OS 9.2.2
Since it won't boot, either use a different machine or boot OSX or whatever, and remove the "Apple CPU Plugins" extension from the Extensions/Multiprocessing folder.
Say a little prayer and try to boot it again… it just might.

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2017, 06:58:29 PM »
  Actually, it was already out of the 9.2.2 folder when I first tried, then I put it back later to see if it would make any difference.  Same state.  It doesn't seem to get far enough to even load that file.  I'm more inclined to suspect it's not playing nice with the Mac OS ROM file.

Offline rshaw

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2017, 02:35:24 AM »
Not sure if it's relevant, but reminds me of an exasperating experience with (I think)
a Sonnet 800MHz G4 upgrade to a PM 8500 or 8600.  Would not get past grey screen.
The fix was to put the original 150 MHz card back in, and zap the pram.  Then install
the new card, without zapping the pram.  This was with 9.1.

I had to keep the old card around, in case the pram got zapped with the new card in...

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2017, 03:25:10 PM »
  I tried your suggestion but no dice.  I guess this thing is going to be OSX-only.   If anyone has another suggestion let me know.  I really don't want to have to use the Giga Designs CPU for OS 9 because you have to re-patch after PRAM reset by first booting into OSX.  That's why I got the Sonnet, but it won't play nice.

Offline GaryN

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2017, 05:12:09 PM »
Did you do Firmware update 4.2.8 ??

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2017, 07:27:35 PM »
  Firmware was already at the final version when the machine came to me.  Apple's updater confirmed that saying it didn't need to run.  I have two other Sawtooth motherboards I would have tested with but they have weird early firmware that Apple's updater won't touch for some reason.

  I suppose it's possible there's actually something wrong with the existing 4.2.8 firmware in this board.  I've never heard of a way to reflash the same version though.

Offline GaryN

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2017, 11:00:25 PM »
Since we're now in the realm where all that's left is to take wild guesses…
My guess is therefore: Your motherboard may not support dual procs, period, firmware notwithstanding.

Sonnet CPU upgrade cards had this friendly little message on the first page of the installation instructions:

WARNING:
Some Power Mac G4 (AGP Graphics) models are incompatible with dual processor cards.
If you purchased this upgrade for a Power Mac G4 (AGP Graphics) computer, be sure to
read the included warning sheet for information on how to determine whether your system is compatible before you install this product.


Exactly what it said on that "included warning sheet" I have no idea. The best part is that you couldn't see the "warning" or know that there even was one until after you had purchased and opened the damn thing…
…unless you happened to see the fine print on one of the product flyers.

On the flyers was this URL to check your machine against:  www.sonnettech.com/support/errata/duet_errata.html

That URL no longer works of course, but it does mean that somewhere at Sonnetech there's probably a copy of it that someone might locate for you if you ask them nicely…

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2017, 04:50:00 AM »




On the flyers was this URL to check your machine against:  www.sonnettech.com/support/errata/duet_errata.html

That URL no longer works of course, but it does mean that somewhere at Sonnetech there's probably a copy of it that someone might locate for you if you ask them nicely…

https://web.archive.org/web/20040411161009/http://www.sonnettech.com/support/errata/duet_errata.html
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2017, 11:34:10 AM »
The current revision of that document is still available on the Sonnet website:

"Encore/ST G4 Duet Processor Upgrade Addendum Instructions"
http://www.sonnettech.com/support/downloads/manuals/sg4d_2g_addendum.pdf

  The old version of the document calls for a Uni-North chip of revision "7 or higher".  The current version of the document says it can be any number other than "3".  In either case my motherboard is supposed to be fine because it has a rev 7 Uni-North.  Before I started I consulted the currently available version of the document and confirmed my system should be compatible.  I appreciate being able to cross-check that against the older document though.

  Anyway, moot point now because it's finally working.  Why it wouldn't initially boot in single processor mode with the Apple CPU Plugins file removed I have no idea.  (Screwy NVRAM/PRAM values that wouldn't reset perhaps?)  What I sorted out first was that what I thought was the hacked version of the CPU Plugins file on that drive turned out not to be.  (That was my own stupid confusion.)  Once the correct hacked version (v3.5) was put in it immediately booted without issue and with both CPUs active.  I tested pulling the file out and then it finally booted in single CPU mode without issue too.  I think there was supposed to be a known occasional problem with Sonnet's installer not doing the job properly, which is why the hacked file came to be distributed stand-alone.

  For reference, in summary I'm booting 9.2.2 with Mac OS ROM 10.2.1 and the hacked Apple CPU Plugins 3.5 files present.  This is with the Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet Dual 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade (the one with the low-profile bare copper heatsink).  Hopefully this experience will save someone else from the problems I had.  I'm going to stick with this combo and not mess with it.  This same combo is working (with "Unsupported G4 ASR" patch Mac OS ROM) on my MDD FW 800 machine with Sonnet MDX dual 1.8 also.  I'm about to install another MDX in a tray-load Xserve and will report back on that in the appropriate thread once I get it going.

Offline MacTron

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2017, 12:11:20 PM »
Can you please attach the hacked Apple CPU Plugin file?
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline GaryN

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2017, 03:10:16 PM »
What I sorted out first was that what I thought was the hacked version of the CPU Plugins file on that drive turned out not to be.  (That was my own stupid confusion.)  Once the correct hacked version (v3.5) was put in it immediately booted without issue and with both CPUs active. 
Isn't it amazing how one little detail can send you into a complete tailspin?

I think there was supposed to be a known occasional problem with Sonnet's installer not doing the job properly, which is why the hacked file came to be distributed stand-alone.
I'm not so sure about that. I have the MDX and all of the packaging and lit that came with it. Nowhere is there mentioned the "Apple CPU Plugin". The guy I got it from included it on a disc and told me he had to get it from Sonnet support after going through the exact same "Why the Hell doesn't this thing work?" scenario that you just did.

For reference, in summary I'm booting 9.2.2 with Mac OS ROM 10.2.1 and the hacked Apple CPU Plugins 3.5 files present. This same combo is working (with "Unsupported G4 ASR" patch Mac OS ROM) on my MDD FW 800 machine with Sonnet MDX dual 1.8 also.
So it now appears to be a fact that the "hacked" "Apple CPU Plugins" file is identical in all of the G4 duals? Fascinating…

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2017, 06:16:17 PM »
Can you please attach the hacked Apple CPU Plugin file?

Attachment included.  Let me know if there are any problems reading it.

  We really need to get this file either included as an option with the "Unsupported G4" 9.2.2 ASR image or make it prominently available for download alongside it.  As I recall from my MDX-upgraded MDD FW800 experience, you can't get through first boot without using another boot drive or another computer to either remove the original file or replace it with the hacked one immediately.  Even better would be to have an alternate download of the ASR image with the file already swapped out and mark it as for the Sonnet Dual CPUs.

  Hopefully some day we can sort out what's in the hack and apply it to the last version of the file as part of the on-going OS 9 improvement project.

Offline DieHard

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2017, 08:58:15 PM »
Quote
Even better would be to have an alternate download of the ASR image with the file already swapped out and mark it as for the Sonnet Dual CPUs.

The ASR is a little time consuming to produce and was created as a 2 step process...
The "Low Overhead" Boot system was created by MacTron, and The 9.2.2 Install image was my Job.
We will put in on the wish list... to Create an ASR Image and Mini system boot that contains both the modified iMic ROM and the Modified CPU plugin.
Thus, any system with the Sonnet (even the MD FW800) will be ready for the Sonnet

Offline nanopico

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2017, 01:41:55 PM »
I have a small minimal disc image I have been using for testing.
It would be easy to update it to boot with the hacked CPU plugin and such to copy over.
Just boot and copy then reboot from HD.
I might be missing the point, but I can update it to do that if it would help.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it, or break it so you can fix it!

Offline GaryN

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2017, 05:00:42 PM »
Even better would be to have an alternate download of the ASR image with the file already swapped out and mark it as for the Sonnet Dual CPUs.
Maybe it's just me, but I think you're all spinning this up into a great big deal that it shouldn't be. It's not like there are Sonnet dual procs for sale around every corner. Half of the very few that do appear are very overpriced. Subtract from the remainder the ones where there's no issue because the seller already went through it so they make certain to tell you about it, and for the 1 or 2 left, you're at the point of causing more confusion than you're solving. Plus, you put up an entire alternate ASR just for that and people without Sonnets will be trying to use it thinking it's "better" or will run faster somehow.

The absolute worst-case scenario is you have one computer, zero friends, no startup CDs, DVDs, or anything else bootable and you live in the middle of nowhere so you have no hardware and nobody to help you swap the file out. In that case, you temporarily replace your old proc card, change the file and swap the proc back.

Hopefully some day we can sort out what's in the hack and apply it to the last version of the file as part of the on-going OS 9 improvement project.

I don't see where anything in the file contributes to an "ongoing OS 9 improvement project". It's an enabler for the Sonnet card… period.

Am I missing something?

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2017, 05:08:49 PM »
Quote
Even better would be to have an alternate download of the ASR image with the file already swapped out and mark it as for the Sonnet Dual CPUs.

The ASR is a little time consuming to produce and was created as a 2 step process...
The "Low Overhead" Boot system was created by MacTron, and The 9.2.2 Install image was my Job.
We will put in on the wish list... to Create an ASR Image and Mini system boot that contains both the modified iMic ROM and the Modified CPU plugin.
Thus, any system with the Sonnet (even the MD FW800) will be ready for the Sonnet

  Cool, that's the hope.  The machine I installed that ASR on originally came to me with only the Sonnet installed and, at the time, no alternate standard CPU to swap in if necessary.  Conceivably I could have created the boot drive on another computer first and then moved it over, but not everyone has that option.  I just figure the smoother we can make this for any user the better.  It took a lot of digging around the internet for me to even learn about the existence of the hacked Apple CPU Plugins file, let alone the need for it.  If anything, it's more important to have the original Apple CPU Plugins file out of the system folder by default on first boot to prevent a first-run freeze.

Offline DieHard

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2017, 07:15:51 PM »
Quote
Maybe it's just me, but I think you're all spinning this up into a great big deal that it shouldn't be. It's not like there are Sonnet dual procs for sale around every corner. Half of the very few that do appear are very overpriced. Subtract from the remainder the ones where there's no issue because the seller already went through it so they make certain to tell you about it, and for the 1 or 2 left, you're at the point of causing more confusion than you're solving. Plus, you put up an entire alternate ASR just for that and people without Sonnets will be trying to use it thinking it's "better" or will run faster somehow.

The absolute worst-case scenario is you have one computer, zero friends, no startup CDs, DVDs, or anything else bootable and you live in the middle of nowhere so you have no hardware and nobody to help you swap the file out. In that case, you temporarily replace your old proc card, change the file and swap the proc back.

In reality, you are right as usual Gary :)

It was just a fun thought that will probably never come to fruition.  For the few that need the Modified file... they will find this thread via Google and will hence find the solution, so, it actually served the purpose quite well by having this topic documented.

Behind the scenes, we are adding new stuff to the site including a Download system for core members that will create a system to share and catalog important files without having to search for old posts and attachments. This is a perfect example for the need to have a user driven download area, besides the read-only boards.  I will keep all posted :)

Offline GaryN

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2017, 07:20:39 PM »
Behind the scenes, we are adding new stuff to the site including a Download system for core members that will create a system to share and catalog important files without having to search for old posts and attachments. This is a perfect example for the need to have a user driven download area, besides the read-only boards.  I will keep all posted :)

NOW you're talking!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2017, 08:18:32 PM »
  I get the point, Gary, although I think you're being a bit harsh.  What DieHard just mentioned is probably adequate.  I really didn't expect my friendly suggestion to trigger an argument and I have no desire to make one out of it.

Thread over.

Offline DieHard

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2017, 09:36:18 PM »
Healthy debate is what we always have here :)

The days of the "SuperNova" exploding are over, so please debate.... without that our forum would be 12,000 blank pages

Offline GaryN

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2017, 11:52:10 PM »
That was harsh?? Trigger an argument? About what? With whom?

Now, I'm really confused. Did I hurt someone's feelings somehow? Sorry, certainly wasn't trying to.

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Re: Sonnet Encore/ST G4 Duet 1.8GHz CPU Upgrade - not working
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2017, 12:53:33 PM »
Can you please attach the hacked Apple CPU Plugin file?

Attachment included.  Let me know if there are any problems reading it.

Thanks  :)

  Hopefully some day we can sort out what's in the hack and apply it to the last version of the file as part of the on-going OS 9 improvement project.


I don't see where anything in the file contributes to an "ongoing OS 9 improvement project". It's an enabler for the Sonnet card… period.


That's what we have to figure out ...

Healthy debate is what we always have here :)

The days of the "SuperNova" exploding are over, so please debate.... without that our forum would be 12,000 blank pages
;D ;D ;D ;D
Please don't PM about things that are not private.